First go at a 10th List:

[Tacitus]

Calgar

Libby with Jump Pack - Honor Vehement

Primaris Apothecary - Artificier Armor

 

HINTs x10 2 Heavy Bolters

Tacs x10 Meltagun, Lascannon

 

Assault Squad x10, 2 Plasma Pistol, 2 Eviscerators

Bladeguard x6

Brutalis Dread

Devs 4xGrav

Devs 4x Grav

Drop Pod

 

Land Raider Crusader - Maybe a straight up Land Raider 6BGV + 1 Apoth + 2 Victrix + 1(2) Calgar is 11 out of 12. 

 

Libby goes with the Assault Marines

Calgar and the Apothecary goes with the BGV in the Land Raider

At least one Dev goes in the Pod.  

 

The Brutalis hangs with the Land Raider to draw fire, or pile on while piling in if left alone.

 

The libby has 6/7 S7/8 D3 damage attacks, the assault Squad gets:

3 S8 AP-3 D2 attacks

6 S7 (WS4+) -3 D2 attacks

28 S4 -2 D1 attacks 

plus the Smite and pistols

plus X/2 Mortals

 

The BGV will just keep coming back from the dead, the Apothecary will be harder to PRECISION out with a 2+, 5+++ to stop the resurrecting Bladeguard, plus there's two more Victrix Guard that are practically Bladeguard themselves.  34 S5 -2 D2 power weapons, plus the Apothecary NASTY pistol, plus Calgar - potentially plus the Brutalis and its attacks and mortals. 

 

I really wanted to do Max size squads, but I'm thinking its not worth it - especially for the HINTs and Tacs that don't have an attached character.  I also don't think Calgar is the best choice here.  He's a beat stick, but I'm not sure a Captain able to do 0 CP Repeats (especially things like Select Assault Doctrine and/or the Bouns when in Assault Doctrine Strats) wouldn't do the job better just because there are so many attacks to benefit from free strats. 

[Malakithe]

That looks like a lot of stuff. Gives me hope that I can finally make a list like I want

[Tacitus]

2 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

That looks like a lot of stuff. Gives me hope that I can finally make a list like I want

It doesn't feel like a lot of stuff.  Its about 50 models including the 3 (more realistically 2 and a half) vehicles.  Its SORT OF the list I'd like to make.  I'd really like to being able to make a full company with some cheap addons(Rhinos, Razorbacks, maybe a Dread) in 2K, or a Demi Company with some BIG addons.  I'd like them to aim 2K points at that level, that's the level in the books often. 

 

Last edition, I made my lists counting FOC Slots and Shoulderpad icons so I still ended up with a Demi-company.  Its weird too, because you start adding all the stuff you had before - and points went down just a touch, so you should be able to get more, but then you look and you're 200 points over and have to trim.  Making the squads 10, and adding the big vehicles add up fast while sneaking up on you too. 

[Malakithe]

Im trying to stay away from hefty costings stuff like Land Raiders and Repulors. They are chonky but your def paying for that chonkiness. Unfortunately those two big boys are the only large transports outside of a Rhino and the flying brick 

[Malakithe]

Also just noticed you cant actually attach an Apoth to a BGV unit which is the big sad

Edited June 23, 2023 by Malakithe

[Karhedron]

2 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Also just noticed you cant actually attach an Apoth to a BGV unit which is the big sad

 

Yup, there are serious restrictions on who the Apothecary can join, presumably to keep his value in check. Desolators and Hellblasters are about the best value you can get out of him.

 

Unless you play Dark Angels in which case, fill your boots with resurrecting Deathwing Terminators. 

[Malakithe]

Yeah returning BGVs every turn sounds a little busted

[Tacitus]

13 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Also just noticed you cant actually attach an Apoth to a BGV unit which is the big sad

OK that's going to be super annoying.  I'm hoping it doesn't last long and they just go straight up/down on the SAME ARMOR or something with cross over armor being the odd here-and-there thing. 

[Malakithe]

41 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

OK that's going to be super annoying.  I'm hoping it doesn't last long and they just go straight up/down on the SAME ARMOR or something with cross over armor being the odd here-and-there thing. 

Has me looking at BGV like should I include now...another issue with them is transport as they can only ride in a Land Raider or Repulsor which is a big investment

[Tacitus]

They can ride Drop Pods and Impulsors, you just don't really want them in the Impulsor now any more than you did last edition - But yeah, they started out better than many other units, but they're path to getting better than base isn't as strong. 

[Malakithe]

39 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

They can ride Drop Pods and Impulsors, you just don't really want them in the Impulsor now any more than you did last edition - But yeah, they started out better than many other units, but they're path to getting better than base isn't as strong. 

Problem with Impulsors is the low transport limit. BGV are only good as a full unit and probably need some Leaders attached 

[Mike8404]

22 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Also just noticed you cant actually attach an Apoth to a BGV unit which is the big sad

Which is funny, because Apocs can be attached to Sword Bros.. Which is just like attaching him to BGV lol

 

Judicars are better with BGV ATM.  He makes them a very good, cheap, objective holder

Edited June 24, 2023 by Mike8404

[Tacitus]

15 minutes ago, Mike8404 said:

Which is funny, because Apocs can be attached to Sword Bros.. Which is just like attaching him to BGV lol

 

Judicars are better with BGV ATM.  He makes them a very good, cheap, objective holder

He makes them very good at just about anything they do.  That's a good catch.  I like going through all the data sheets every so often to see if anything (like this) has been overlooked because it wasn't very good before some recent round of changes - its what made me start to be a fan of Assault Squads towards the end of 9th there so I was already making one when 10th rolled out. 

[Malakithe]

14 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Assault Squads

Assault + Lt. for massed auto-wounding fun

33 minutes ago, Mike8404 said:

Which is funny, because Apocs can be attached to Sword Bros.. Which is just like attaching him to BGV lol

 

Judicars are better with BGV ATM.  He makes them a very good, cheap, objective holder

At 200pts for 6 I wouldnt call them cheap objective holders. Now launch them out of a Land Raider and BGV with Fights First will probably tear up whatever they smash into

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Assault + Lt. for massed auto-wounding fun

At 200pts for 6 I wouldnt call them cheap objective holders. Now launch them out of a Land Raider and BGV with Fights First will probably tear up whatever they smash into

At 200 points for 6 OC1 W3 4++ vs 200 for 5 OC1 W4 4++ models yeah they're not cheap - and I wouldn't want either of those units camping on their thumbs next to an objective.   I do want to run a bunch of them next to Grandpappy Smurf for the Bodyguard/Lone Operative trigger though.  I kind of think of Roboute and 10 Terminator Assault Marines running around punching stuff in the face, but now I'm thinking 6 BGV and 5 Shootinators. 

[Karhedron]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Assault + Lt. for massed auto-wounding fun

 

The only downside is they will be walking since there is no Jump Lt option anymore.

 

Jump Chaplain might be better. +1 to Wound is pretty strong with the new toughness scale. 

[Tacitus]

27 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

The only downside is they will be walking since there is no Jump Lt option anymore.

 

Jump Chaplain might be better. +1 to Wound is pretty strong with the new toughness scale. 

+1 to Wound is probably the best of them right now, making Chaplains flying under the radar a little surprising - even if it is Melee Only

[Lemondish]

On 6/23/2023 at 7:57 AM, Tacitus said:

Land Raider Crusader - Maybe a straight up Land Raider 6BGV + 1 Apoth + 2 Victrix + 1(2) Calgar is 11 out of 12. 

 

I wonder if a Techmarine would be the right 12th body to add in there after replacing the Apothecary with another leader. Could keep the Raider and Dread ticking a tad longer and all that.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Lemondish

[Tacitus]

49 minutes ago, Lemondish said:

 

I wonder if a Techmarine would be the right 12th body to add in there after replacing the Apothecary with another leader. Could keep the Raider and Dread ticking a tad longer and all that.

Probably not - Techmarines don't have the In Addition To Another Leader rule, and can't join BGV.   That said, they can join Servitors, and the Crusader has enough room - Not that I expect the Land Raider to hang around after everyone piles out. 

 

Oh.  Wait.  Now, that's funny.

 

Guilliman gets Lone Operative next to Ultramarines Infantry.

 

The Techmarine gets Lone Operative next to (Chapter) Vehicles. and is Chapter Infantry.

 

Guilliman, A couple Techmarines, a whole lotta Dreads - especially the 5++ Contemptors - and a couple-few Intercessors and such to sticky/cap objectives. 

 

To get to Guilliman, you have to melee, or you have to shoot up a whole lotta 5++ T9 wounds, then the T10 -1 to D wounds, then the T10 2+ Brutalis wounds... THEN the Techmarines, THEN Guilliman.   Even Precision won't get you through Lone Operative.   If they can't get LOS on your Happy Campers, they've got to dump all the lasguns, bolters, shuriken, and splinters into the Dreads.

[Tacitus]

Add on:  But a Libby in Phobos Armor attached to Phobos Units as the Objective Campers with Stealth, and Shrouding - not within 12" there either, and -1 to hit or go with Sniper Scouts.  Or a mix of the two.  An entire army built around the theme: "I get to pick what you shoot at.". 

[Dracos]

Themed army like Phobis would be fun. I have a heavily themed Gravis army but they rarely play well on the table top. Deathwing is about the only one I’ve seen have sustained luck on the table top and even they rise and fall over time. 
 

Themed armies always are missing an important element of either durability firepower or maneuverability in my opinion 

[Lemondish]

8 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Probably not - Techmarines don't have the In Addition To Another Leader rule, and can't join BGV.   That said, they can join Servitors, and the Crusader has enough room - Not that I expect the Land Raider to hang around after everyone piles out. 

 

My mistake for not clarifying. Since he's a lone operative next to the land raider, or the dreadnought, and he's really only there to keep either of them ticking, then he doesn't need a bodyguard unit.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Lemondish

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, Lemondish said:

 

My mistake for not clarifying. Since he's a lone operative next to the land raider, or the dreadnought, and he's really only there to keep either of them ticking, then he doesn't need a bodyguard unit.

He's not a Lone Operative - well technically he is, but Lone Operative has disabling language for "while attached" - so he's a Lone Operative that gets none of the rules for it.  He's also not even there to keep the Land Raider or Dread kicking, that's a bonus.  He's there to give Guilliman a REALLY tough to crack Lone Operative himself for 65 points with some frosting on the cake.  It could be done with a Phobos Libby + (probably Incursor for their close combat) unit.  

 

The real point was how many Super-Stealth units can be stacked - especially in the T4'ish W2'ish stat band to invalidate anti-infrantry weapons.  Think about most of your lists.  Now imagine every ranged weapon can has a max range of 12". 

[Lemondish]

43 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

He's there to give Guilliman a REALLY tough to crack Lone Operative himself for 65 points with some frosting on the cake.  It could be done with a Phobos Libby + (probably Incursor for their close combat) unit.  

That wasn't at all what I was talking about, but I can see that we're talking over each other and just turning this into a mess so never mind lol

Edited June 26, 2023 by Lemondish

[Tacitus]

11 hours ago, Lemondish said:

 

My mistake for not clarifying. Since he's a lone operative next to the land raider, or the dreadnought, and he's really only there to keep either of them ticking, then he doesn't need a bodyguard unit.

Then I'm lost and don't know what you were talking about?  When I stuck the Techmarine in the blob, it was the cheapest most durable (Due to being a Lone Operative itself) INFANTRY keyword unit I could lay my hands on.  The fact that he can repair the vehicles was just secondary.  The Vehicles were there to punch face with Dread fists and because they were roughly equivalent T and S to G.  The Techmarine gave G Lone Operative, the Vehicles I was already taking gave the Techmarine Lone Operative.  I could have skipped the Techmarine and just done 5 Incursors and a Phobos Libby (which isn't actually that bad of an idea - they have a threat band that's DIFFERENT than G, so it's not a double up.  And a Bunch of Incursors with a couple Libbys around G means the whole blob can't be targetted, instead of leaving the Dreads out there hanging.  Use the Incursors on the Chaff, G against the Vehicles and Beatsticks. 

 

Anyway, the point wasn't the actual makeup, but the layering of "Super Stealth" potentially recreating the "Invisibility" mechanic from a couple editions ago.   

Edited June 26, 2023 by Tacitus