Combiweapon vs combibolter or bolter

[sonsoftaurus]

Ok, new rules and all, but I am not seeing what’s supposed to be so great about combiweapons in 10th. Chance for DWounds is good sure, but worth it vs more hits? 
 

Thoughts? Different answers for different units/marks?

[danodan123]

I guess it totally depends on your target, I'm eyeing a squad of terminators with full combis, mark of Nurgle so exploding hits on a 5, hitting on a +4 but with re rolls when you do your dark pact.

 

That should give you a lot of opportunities to apply mortal wounds on infantry - however probably wasted on light infantry.

 

 

[TrawlingCleaner]

Combis excel at Elite Infantry killing as the MW bypasses high toughness, armour saves and Invulns whilst the bolters are better vs light infantry. As it has DevWounds, it would seem to me that you'd never really want to give them Lethal hits as you're losing out on the wound rolls, although perhaps when fighting light infantry and you don't have access to rerolls it could come in handy

 

As you're wanting to make Dark Pacts most turns, you'll have reroll to hits on Terminators, rerolls to wound would be very handy too.

[danodan123]

Interesting as well, for chosen at least. I see no reason to not take the combi as you still get to keep the bolter part anyway! 

[sonsoftaurus]

3 hours ago, danodan123 said:

Interesting as well, for chosen at least. I see no reason to not take the combi as you still get to keep the bolter part anyway! 

Unless I’m missing something, it’s not a ‘pick firing mode’ option like a plasma pistol.

[TrawlingCleaner]

1 minute ago, sonsoftaurus said:

Unless I’m missing something, it’s not a ‘pick firing mode’ option like a plasma pistol.

 

It's a weird wording on their equipment list:

 

You replace your boltpistol with the combi instead of replacing your Bolter. I wouldn't go and model this on your guys though, I'm 99% sure it's a mistake

 

Combis would definitely work for Chosen I think, with an Exalted Champion, they're getting +1 to hit, although in a 10 man unit only 4 can take them

[danodan123]

1 hour ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

 

You replace your boltpistol with the combi instead of replacing your Bolter. I wouldn't go and model this on your guys though, I'm 99% sure it's a mistake

 

 

Akimbo combi weapon and a bolter you say??

[Kaiju Soze]

2 hours ago, danodan123 said:

 

Akimbo combi weapon and a bolter you say??

Only until it gets FAQ'd.

[danodan123]

I may be wrong but I think it's as intended, that way you get to shoot the bolter part of the gun and there's no downside, can you shoot pistol and other ranged weapons also? 10 bolters, 4 combi weapons and 4 plasma pistols in a squad gives out a fair bit, MoN for all them hits exploding on 5s too?

 

Just checked and no, it's pistols or all other ranged weapons, still quite considerable firepower! 

Edited June 26, 2023 by danodan123

[Gilbertus1]

On 6/27/2023 at 3:56 AM, danodan123 said:

I may be wrong but I think it's as intended, that way you get to shoot the bolter part of the gun and there's no downside, can you shoot pistol and other ranged weapons also? 10 bolters, 4 combi weapons and 4 plasma pistols in a squad gives out a fair bit, MoN for all them hits exploding on 5s too?

 

Just checked and no, it's pistols or all other ranged weapons, still quite considerable firepower! 

 

The previous incarnation of the codex had the bolters being replaced with combi-weapons, not sure why they'd change this to pistols willingly.

[danodan123]

2 hours ago, Gilbertus1 said:

 

The previous incarnation of the codex had the bolters being replaced with combi-weapons, not sure why they'd change this to pistols willingly.

 

This is true, however the combi weapons before are muucchh different so you can't compare the two anymore I guess.

 

Before, the combi had the bolter part already there, now it looks to me the've changed the fact that the pistol is what you swap for the bolter so you still have the bolter element on the combi weapon.

 

Makes sense to me but who knows?!

[sonsoftaurus]

3 hours ago, danodan123 said:

 

This is true, however the combi weapons before are muucchh different so you can't compare the two anymore I guess.

 

Before, the combi had the bolter part already there, now it looks to me the've changed the fact that the pistol is what you swap for the bolter so you still have the bolter element on the combi weapon.

 

Makes sense to me but who knows?!

Oh, good point. Maybe considered more elegant way of presenting vs another ‘choose one’ profile. 
 

And I guess then you can fire both the bolter and combi at once. 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:31 AM, danodan123 said:

 

This is true, however the combi weapons before are muucchh different so you can't compare the two anymore I guess.

 

Before, the combi had the bolter part already there, now it looks to me the've changed the fact that the pistol is what you swap for the bolter so you still have the bolter element on the combi weapon.

 

Makes sense to me but who knows?!

 

I find that unlikely, given that other units with combi-weapons are not presented with a similar option.   Additionally, it doesn't make sense to me not to just bake that into the combi-weapon profile if that is what was intended.  Rather, it seems more likely to be an unintentional error that was missed in proof reading.

 

Ultimately, I guess it doesn't really matter why it is as it is, and we should enjoy it while it lasts.  My opinion is that it will likely change as soon as GW notices it, or whenever GW feels like getting around to changing it (9th ed has shown, if nothing else, that GW can refuse to change things it is aware of until the codex is released - 1W chaos marines as a prime example).  I would be very surprised that, should GW learn of the way it currently works, that such would survive into our 10e codex.  So, I will likely treat it in the same way as I treated 8e noise marine aspiring champions being able to take both a sonic blaster and a combibolter (and doomsiren, if you had the points) - make use of it while it lasts, but don't expect it last.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Cpt.Danjou]

I feel it is an error that chosen can change their pistol to a combi-weapon, so it will be changed when GW gets the time to fix it, just like they will fix the legionaries Autocannon BS of 3+, and some other minor issues that the other index has, if they have any.  ;)

 

Cpt Danjou

[Prot]

Is anyone finding a strong reason to take Chosen over Terminators in 10th? I tried pushing them in 9th and I never felt great about them. I still have a large number of them but haven't felt like they can crack the efficiency and flexibility of Termies. 

[Cryptix]

I like them for their ability to be paired with an exalted champion and dark apostle. (Optionally replace champion with chaos lord for strats) 10 of them + characters can take down a land raider in a turn with their Accursed weapons and Mark of khorne.

[sonsoftaurus]

I’m going to try a couple squads of Chosen in Rhinos. The extra points are probably worth it for the Terminators extra durability, but I want PA bodies to work, so will give it a shot. 

[Cpt.Danjou]

I have used chosen in 1k games, as they are fairly fast with their ability, and they are a bit more sturdy to get a PA character up the board. You can't deep strike a minimum squad of terminators if you bring a character in a 1k game. So in small games Chosen are ok, in a 2k game, I will bring terminators instead.

 

Cpt. Danjou

 

[madlibrarian]

I’ve been running both. Chosen are an excellent deterrent for enemy forces. Max squad size, with an exalted champion and chaos lord, mark of nurgle for the sustained hits in shooting, hitting on 2’s and 3’s thanks to the exalted champion, take all the combi weapons. 

 

their advance and charge is incredible useful, and presents a wide radius of threat for any enemies. The fact that the chaos lord can spam dark obscuration to guarantee they get in close whilst also enabling shooting is amazing. I’ll be surprised if dark obscuration doesn’t get nerfed.

 

as for the terminators, again, I’ll always take max combi-weapons, as the benefit to me is too much to pass over. Again, I’ll often put a chaos lord with these guys, and either do the strat to res one for free each turn, or dark obscuration and have them hold a midfield objective.

[sonsoftaurus]

 

I was totally missing the interaction of the ‘anti’ with the Devastating Wounds initially.

 

Oooooooooh! 
 

Oh yeah, totally combis especially when keep the bolter part too. I’m going to rethink how to model these Chosen…

[Dr_Ruminahui]

As suspected, the chosen's ability to swap their pistol (rather than their bolter) for a combiweapon was unintended and has been changed in the latest datacard FAQ: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/YRK9ZpspblzJHLb7.pdf

Edited July 26, 2023 by Dr_Ruminahui