Fluff on a space marine surviving the horus heresy

[Ultramarine vet]

Hello all! I have been away for a long time, but I'm back. 

 

So I have created my own chapter, called the Charnel Hounds. Despite my user name, I am more of a Son of Dorn nowadays, and he is the Hound's gene father.

 

But I am really struggling on good, convincing fluff on my chapter master, having survived the Siege of Terra AND the Iron Cage, making him a very battle scarred warrior. My current thoughts on it is that not long after the Iron Cage ended, he was lost in the warp with a small amount of surviving Fists with him. I'm just not sure when I want to him to pop back up in real space, or if I want to go a different route entirely. One idea I had for a while is that he popped back up when the great rift opened, which allowed him to come back to real space. Not sure how that would work though.

 

Time lines are really.....challenging. Any and all help and insight on this idea of mine will be greatly appreciated!

[Codex Grey]

Welcome back!
 

Have you worked out some details on the Charnel Hounds as a Chapter or are you looking to develop the Chapter Master first then the Chapter around his personality and traits?

 

If yes to the latter above, what are the traits of the CM you want to portray? Why is it important that he was present at the both Siege and the Cage?

 

As far as getting lost in the warp and popping up again, there is some precedence for this in the lore (can't remember anything at the top of my head), and it usually happens when its convenient for the writer/story. From what you have described so far, there is nothing about your lore that dictates when it should be. So if this is something you really want for you fluff, just pick a time (like after the Great Rift), go for it and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. However, I do feel it is somewhat of a overused trope, both in official and unofficial fluff, so I do wonder why this connection between the past and the present is important to the Chapter Master, the Chapter's identity, or to you? If it's just because you think it's neat, then I totally get it  And if you want to make it as convincing as possible, then you will have to convince the reader how/why the Chapter was established? Who sanctioned it? 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Codex Grey

[Ultramarine vet]

Thank you! 

 

So I have a little bit of fluff on the chapter, but not a whole lot yet. I think I want them to be a somewhat dark and morbid chapter. Their colors is black, bone, and red. As for the chapter master, I want him to remember the Siege of Terra and the Iron Cage because I want him to be a little bit broken and scarred, even as a space marine. I want to have times where he vents in confidence to his high chaplain about what he's seen and been through and what he continues to go through. I also think it would be cool for him to have flashbacks in mid battle of his marines fighting in the Cage especially, since the Fists got decimated there.

 

The how/why the chapter got established and who sanctioned it is definitely one of the main things I'm trying to hash out. As you said, this kind of a story is quite used, so I'm trying to come up with a good spin on it. I think the High Lords and now Guilliman are probably the only 2 ways to sanction the creation of a new chapter?

[Grotsmasha]

Perhaps you could have him Time-Cursed (by a Daemon or some such). As in he and his company have been lost within the Warp for extended time on several occasions, but for them time-wise, they may have experienced 300-500yrs of the last 10,000. Whenever he reappears he once again claims the mantle of Chapter Master, but in his absence a Commander is chosen, or perhaps a council makes the calls.

[Minigiant]

I appreciate your enthusiasm for creating your custom Space Marine chapter, the Charnel Hounds. It's clear that you've put thought into their background and themes. Allow me to provide you with some constructive feedback and suggestions to refine and enhance your ideas.

 

Firstly, addressing your chapter master's backstory, it presents a challenge to have a Space Marine survive both the Siege of Terra and the Iron Cage, given the significant time gap. While time travel has been used in the lore, it can be cliché and require extensive development to fit within the established lore of the setting.

 

Instead, I propose that the Charnel Hounds take on the mantle and traditions of a specific Imperial Fists chapter from the time of the Horus Heresy. This chapter would have been separated from the main legion during the Iron Cage, enduring various trials and tribulations that showcased their resilience and determination. This approach ties your chapter closely to established lore while allowing for unique characteristics and stories.

 

The chapter commander from the past, whose name the Charnel Hounds bear, could serve as a significant inspiration for your present-day chapter master. This would create a meaningful connection to the Siege of Terra and the Iron Cage without the logistical issues associated with surviving for thousands of years.

 

By confiding in the high chaplain about his experiences and struggles, he showcases vulnerability despite his superhuman status. Flashbacks during battle can depict the psychological impact of his past, creating dramatic moments. To add depth to your Chapter, the Chapter Commanders character, his broken and scarred nature, as well as his memories of the Siege of Terra and the Iron Cage, can shape his personality and become cherished records for the present-day chapter.

 

Furthermore, explore unique rituals, iconography, and combat tactics that reflect the Charnel Hounds' morbid disposition. These elements can further enhance their dark and somber nature.

 

In summary, consider tying the Charnel Hounds to a specific Imperial Fists chapter from the time of the Horus Heresy, showcasing their resilience during the separation from the main legion. Your present-day chapter master can adopt the name of the revered chapter commander, connecting him to the historical events without raising logistical concerns. Additionally, delve into rituals, iconography, and combat tactics that embody the chapter's morbid disposition.

 

I hope these suggestions help you shape your custom chapter into what you desire

Edited June 26, 2023 by Minigiant

[apologist]

Taking your notes here as inspiration:

I think I want them to be a somewhat dark and morbid chapter. Their colors is black, bone, and red. As for the chapter master, I want him to remember the Siege of Terra and the Iron Cage because I want him to be a little bit broken and scarred, even as a space marine. I want to have times where he vents in confidence to his high chaplain about what he's seen and been through and what he continues to go through. I also think it would be cool for him to have flashbacks in mid battle of his marines fighting in the Cage especially, since the Fists got decimated there.

 

The 'key notes' here seem to be memory, trauma and disordered memory. I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty, but I drafted a quick short story that might show another way of having a survivor of the Heresy reach the 41st Millennium – I hope it touches on the 'dark and morbid' feel you wanted, too.

 

+++

 

'My name is Crassus, late of the Imperial Fists. I am a Charnel Hound. I am the Master of the Charnel Hounds; sole surviving heir of Rogal Dorn: by his Gift, immortal. I am a Charnel Hound. Our colours are black, and bone, and red. Our way is victory.

 

Good. Continue.

 

This is my mantra; and perforce silent, for Hounds do not admit weakness in their leaders. Silent by necessity; and confessed only in private, and only to you, my High Chaplain. 

 

And I am?

 

My... High Chaplain, whose name... whose name I forget. Or conflate. 

 

Again.

 

My name is Crassus, of the Imper– late of the Imperial Fists. I am a Charnel Hound. I am the Master of... the Master of... Our colours are black, and gol– no; black and bone and... I am im– immortal..?

 

Again.

 

My name is... Solomnace. I am an Imperia– No. My name is... Crassus? I am... am I Solemnace?'

 

Breathe, Crassus.

 

The slip was coming. It was rare; and predictable enough that it could be calculated; and sufficiently short-lived that the Chapter Master could be sequestered for 'spiritual consultation' without explanation. We were alone, and none need know of our immortal Master's... confusion. Even Space Marines have doubts – and for all our gifts, we have weaknesses.

 

Weaknesses that must be suppressed, and mastered.

 

He wasn't wrong. He was Crassus; in at least as many ways as mattered. His face had been altered – with his tacit consent – to make the illusion work; to help remind our immortal Master of who he really was. Of course, none of us remembered him personally. That had been ten thousand years ago – but records remain.

 

Blood remains. Geneseed remains.

 

He'd fought in the Heresy War as an Imperial Fist. He fought in the Great Scouring; and was rewarded for his pains. 'Rewarded' with ascension to Mastery of his own Chapter; a Chapter whose name spoke acidly of Crassus' opinion of his beloved Legion being split and leashed.

 

He'd fought on for longer than that – for nearly seven centuries; during which time he had become an irreplacable talisman of the Chapter. None of his comrades had outlived him. Not even – to our eterenal sorrow – our genefather.

 

I do not say 'irreplaceable' lightly. He was literally irreplaceable. The Chapter could not function without him – and so, even as he lay dying, the first High Chaplain – my long-ago forebear – ordered his brain scuttled and devoured. It was a work of genius; or inspiration divine. The Second obeyed; as would any Hound: with duty, with reverence; but not with pleasure.

 

That Second Crassus received hypno-doctrination to repress his previous self; was sent into a coma and his frontal lobes temporarily suspended to force his omophagea to compensate. His mind was a fortress; and one whose occupant needed to be unseated. It was for the good of the Chapter. 

 

Like today's Crassus, that second Crassus had his progenoids – themselves worthy, themselves precious, but secondary to those of Crassus – harvested and replaced with those of his previous body. When he was induced to awake, he was confused; but within hours had regained that certainty; that knowledge of self.

 

Crassus fought again. His mannerisms and temper and tics were all intact. Even if his face and body were different, Crassus fought again.

 

Ten thousand years have passed, but Crassus remains. Crassus alone remains. Crassus remains immortal by the will of the Primarch, the skill of his apothecaries and the rigid attendance of his High Chaplains.

 

Now... Breathe.

 

Breathe, our once-and-always Master.

 

Good.

 

Begin again.

 

'My name is Crassus, late of the Imperial Fists. I am a Charnel Hound. I am the Master of the Charnel Hounds; sole surviving heir of Rogal Dorn: by his Gift, immortal. I am a Charnel Hound. Our colours are black, and bone, and red. Our way is victory.'

 

+++

[Ultramarine vet]

1 hour ago, apologist said:

Taking your notes here as inspiration:

 

 

 

The 'key notes' here seem to be memory, trauma and disordered memory. I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty, but I drafted a quick short story that might show another way of having a survivor of the Heresy reach the 41st Millennium – I hope it touches on the 'dark and morbid' feel you wanted, too.

 

+++

 

'My name is Crassus, late of the Imperial Fists. I am a Charnel Hound. I am the Master of the Charnel Hounds; sole surviving heir of Rogal Dorn: by his Gift, immortal. I am a Charnel Hound. Our colours are black, and bone, and red. Our way is victory.

 

Good. Continue.

 

This is my mantra; and perforce silent, for Hounds do not admit weakness in their leaders. Silent by necessity; and confessed only in private, and only to you, my High Chaplain. 

 

And I am?

 

My... High Chaplain, whose name... whose name I forget. Or conflate. 

 

Again.

 

My name is Crassus, of the Imper– late of the Imperial Fists. I am a Charnel Hound. I am the Master of... the Master of... Our colours are black, and gol– no; black and bone and... I am im– immortal..?

 

Again.

 

My name is... Solomnace. I am an Imperia– No. My name is... Crassus? I am... am I Solemnace?'

 

Breathe, Crassus.

 

The slip was coming. It was rare; and predictable enough that it could be calculated; and sufficiently short-lived that the Chapter Master could be sequestered for 'spiritual consultation' without explanation. We were alone, and none need know of our immortal Master's... confusion. Even Space Marines have doubts – and for all our gifts, we have weaknesses.

 

Weaknesses that must be suppressed, and mastered.

 

He wasn't wrong. He was Crassus; in at least as many ways as mattered. His face had been altered – with his tacit consent – to make the illusion work; to help remind our immortal Master of who he really was. Of course, none of us remembered him personally. That had been ten thousand years ago – but records remain.

 

Blood remains. Geneseed remains.

 

He'd fought in the Heresy War as an Imperial Fist. He fought in the Great Scouring; and was rewarded for his pains. 'Rewarded' with ascension to Mastery of his own Chapter; a Chapter whose name spoke acidly of Crassus' opinion of his beloved Legion being split and leashed.

 

He'd fought on for longer than that – for nearly seven centuries; during which time he had become an irreplacable talisman of the Chapter. None of his comrades had outlived him. Not even – to our eterenal sorrow – our genefather.

 

I do not say 'irreplaceable' lightly. He was literally irreplaceable. The Chapter could not function without him – and so, even as he lay dying, the first High Chaplain – my long-ago forebear – ordered his brain scuttled and devoured. It was a work of genius; or inspiration divine. The Second obeyed; as would any Hound: with duty, with reverence; but not with pleasure.

 

That Second Crassus received hypno-doctrination to repress his previous self; was sent into a coma and his frontal lobes temporarily suspended to force his omophagea to compensate. His mind was a fortress; and one whose occupant needed to be unseated. It was for the good of the Chapter. 

 

Like today's Crassus, that second Crassus had his progenoids – themselves worthy, themselves precious, but secondary to those of Crassus – harvested and replaced with those of his previous body. When he was induced to awake, he was confused; but within hours had regained that certainty; that knowledge of self.

 

Crassus fought again. His mannerisms and temper and tics were all intact. Even if his face and body were different, Crassus fought again.

 

Ten thousand years have passed, but Crassus remains. Crassus alone remains. Crassus remains immortal by the will of the Primarch, the skill of his apothecaries and the rigid attendance of his High Chaplains.

 

Now... Breathe.

 

Breathe, our once-and-always Master.

 

Good.

 

Begin again.

 

'My name is Crassus, late of the Imperial Fists. I am a Charnel Hound. I am the Master of the Charnel Hounds; sole surviving heir of Rogal Dorn: by his Gift, immortal. I am a Charnel Hound. Our colours are black, and bone, and red. Our way is victory.'

 

+++

This right here, is a fantastic bit of writing. I love this. So in this short story, what might have happened to him? Was it pure age or was he felled by something? 

[Minigiant]

When it comes to the establishment of the chapter, you're right that there are various ways to sanction the creation of a new chapter. The High Lords and Roboute Guilliman are indeed plausible authorities to grant such a sanction. However, I would suggest considering a unique twist to make your chapter's origins stand out. One idea you mentioned is the use of stasis crypts or cryogenic sleep. This could be an intriguing solution, where the chapter master and his honor guard were placed in stasis, possibly due to a critical mission or unforeseen circumstances. They could then be awakened during the 26th Founding, appointed to lead a new successor chapter of the Imperial Fists. This would give your chapter a distinct narrative element and explain their presence in the current era.

[apologist]

4 hours ago, Ultramarine vet said:

This right here, is a fantastic bit of writing. I love this. So in this short story, what might have happened to him? Was it pure age or was he felled by something? 

 

Thanks for the kind words! The rest of the story is up to you – I don't want to tread on your creative toes for your Chapter. :)

 

Really the point of the story is that there's more than one narrative route to achieve your aims. Survivor of the Heresy is a fun trope, but as a couple of Fraters have noted above, it's easy to lapse into cliché. A bit of a twist, however, can freshen it up a bit. In fact, sometimes it's fun to start with a deliberately unpromising idea and run with it – work out where it leads you. Ideas tend to breed new ones, and by the end of the process, I'm often able to ditch the initial idea because it's thrown up some new ones :)

 

I think @Minigiant's advice is well worth heeding to further flesh things out, too:

Furthermore, explore unique rituals, iconography, and combat tactics that reflect the Charnel Hounds' morbid disposition. These elements can further enhance their dark and somber nature.

 

[Ultramarine vet]

39 minutes ago, apologist said:

 

Thanks for the kind words! The rest of the story is up to you – I don't want to tread on your creative toes for your Chapter. :)

 

Really the point of the story is that there's more than one narrative route to achieve your aims. Survivor of the Heresy is a fun trope, but as a couple of Fraters have noted above, it's easy to lapse into cliché. A bit of a twist, however, can freshen it up a bit. In fact, sometimes it's fun to start with a deliberately unpromising idea and run with it – work out where it leads you. Ideas tend to breed new ones, and by the end of the process, I'm often able to ditch the initial idea because it's thrown up some new ones :)

 

I think @Minigiant's advice is well worth heeding to further flesh things out, too:

 

Absolutely! I already have several ideas thanks to everyone here. I'm working on them now and I've gotten a solid amount of progress done. It's gonna be a rough draft, but it'll tell the story.

[Felix Antipodes]

I wouldn’t get too hung up on who ‘authorised’ the creation of your Chapter.  There are literally dozens of Chapters in the fluff who have no idea where their geneseed came from and/or which Founding they are from.

Unless they are under the eye of the Inquisition for some reason, I doubt there would be a reason that any Imperial organisation would even think about checking on their origins.

[Minigiant]

24 minutes ago, Felix Antipodes said:

I wouldn’t get too hung up on who ‘authorised’ the creation of your Chapter.  There are literally dozens of Chapters in the fluff who have no idea where their geneseed came from and/or which Founding they are from.

Unless they are under the eye of the Inquisition for some reason, I doubt there would be a reason that any Imperial organisation would even think about checking on their origins.

I fully agree. It is of my opinion that the best solution to most lore problems a Chapter has is for there IA is to avoid any mention to it and avoid any possibility of questions being raised

[NerdDegrees]

Personally I like the idea. You see the Primarchs, and now The Risen talking about the current state of the Imperium. Wanting to see the Imperium made back to its former glory would be a great story arch. It would also give you a possible enemy in the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition.

 

I think the main part that would need to be dived into, outside of when he dropped out of the warp, is why this space marine was given his own chapter to lead, instead of being enveloped by his original legions main chapter.