Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Petitioner's City]

When we discuss SG not moving to include post-30k races and things in this new epic or in AT, while economics is one argument (one more applicable to epic due to size of the game versus individual titans, which much like individual planes, could be produced as small ranges), has anyone considered it could be because 40k (or 41k) is the purview of the main studio? That they want that separation? 

 

(Even AI, though "modern,", was "historic", but possibly it was a weird experiment, and/or the last gasp of older Imperial Armour sensibilities?)

[Rik Lightstar]

I don't think we've seen the last of Titanicus or Aeronautica although that was my first instinct. I think they'll both continue to exist as side games and a way to bring out releases when they fit in much the same way as 40k has Kill Teams and AoS has WarCry and Underworlds.

 

Maintaining both AI (within the Heresy timeline) and AT becomes a pretty simple case of rules and card releases rather than having to dedicate miniature production time to them. They're a great way to "encourage" Epic gamers to get more toys, if you have an Epic force with two Titans, a lance or two of Knights and a couple of Storm Eagles then it's a comparatively small jump to picking up either rulebook and the balance of what you'd need to play those games.

 

They've already done the development work fo both systems and adding the occasional new item should be straightforward too.

 

Rik

[Captain Idaho]

I love Adeptus Titanicus and in no way want it to go anywhere or think it will right now... but I will say I believe its demise would be only because customers prefer LI to it and always did. Like when Adeptus Titanicus was superceded by Epic in the past. If that's what the customers want, then so be it eh.

 

However, I think the niche of big stompy robot pilot simulation is covered excellently by Adeptus Titanicus and I'd love for a rule set to continue to exist for those times I want to struggle to raise my void shields and cause detailed explosive death. 

 

I'm never I'm favour of options being removed and hope we can have our games still relevant for years to come.

 

[BolterZorro]

35 minutes ago, Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla said:

I disagree. If your game is two exactly the same armies fighting against each other, providing people with as much customization options as possible should be priority a and in Titanicus on top of that you have very few models on board. The already limited by sticking with Heresy  playerbase gets even more limited.

That is true, that is why I think IL has his chance: the game starts with at least 2 differents factions and 20 different units per faction which is huge. (7 or 8 in the IL starter + 3 to 5 planes + 8+ titans chassis ) and with a lot of weapons options. And that, with what we know today. But I can't imagine a launch without some key additions like transports (rhino/chimera) and few other thingies. (bigger walkers and more tanks)

I think that when people see the table full of infantry , lot of tanks with some flying units fighting big boys titans, the game will have some superb appealling force.

This is a good starting point.

 

In an industrial point of view, making a Rhino sprue is way easier at this Epic scale than at 40k/30K scale: remember that in the original Epic game, the rhino is justONE piece of plastic. So, each sprue will probably gives several things. It is really surprising that there is no transport in the IL starter. This leads me to guess how GW will go to have a good ROI with IL. Same problem with the old Epic game: building an army was way cheaper than buying a 40k one. ANd with only 2 armies lines, the players will quickly have a sufficient pool of plastic to make many many army builds.

Example: buy 2 IL boxes + 1 AT box + questoris knights => and you have: a good starting point for 2 armies with a full range of titans up to the Reaver for just 400€. (and bonus: you have 2 games, you can resell some books and things to make it even cheaper)

[Marshal Rohr]

Given Mechanicum is 100% going to be a major faction in the game, and many Heresy players collect at least one loyal and one traitor legion the game is going to be be fine if that trend continues and everyone has at least two armies of Auxilia, Legions, and Titans

[apologist]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

I love Adeptus Titanicus and in no way want it to go anywhere or think it will right now... but I will say I believe its demise would be only because customers prefer LI to it and always did. Like when Adeptus Titanicus was superceded by Epic in the past. If that's what the customers want, then so be it eh.

 

However, I think the niche of big stompy robot pilot simulation is covered excellently by Adeptus Titanicus and I'd love for a rule set to continue to exist for those times I want to struggle to raise my void shields and cause detailed explosive death. 

 

I'm never I'm favour of options being removed and hope we can have our games still relevant for years to come.

 

Agreed. What works best rules-wise for a sprawling mixed-combat war is not what works best for highly-focussed duels, so despite the apparent similarities and shared models, Titanicus and Epic have historically had a bit of a complementary/antagonistic relationship, with blurry lines between them.

 

Who knows? Perhaps the Legions designers will be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat and create a ruleset that somehow manages to keep the appeal of running a Titan Maniple and make it work well against the very different-feeling fun of commanding a horde of infantry. If that is the case, we'll be onto a winner :)

[Redcomet]

11 hours ago, prava said:

Do we have any idea how this game plays? I have never touched EPIC (nor aeronautica nor Titanicus) so im absolutely at a loss here. Historically, did it have any resemblance with 40K?

This is a brand new game, so we are all in the same boat, no one really knows

[Marshal Rohr]

15 minutes ago, apologist said:

 

Agreed. What works best rules-wise for a sprawling mixed-combat war is not what works best for highly-focussed duels, so despite the apparent similarities and shared models, Titanicus and Epic have historically had a bit of a complementary/antagonistic relationship, with blurry lines between them.

 

Who knows? Perhaps the Legions designers will be able to pull the rabbit out of the hat and create a ruleset that somehow manages to keep the appeal of running a Titan Maniple and make it work well against the very different-feeling fun of commanding a horde of infantry. If that is the case, we'll be onto a winner :)

Keeping the reactor and shield mechanics shouldn’t be too difficult with some tweaks, and to be honest, titans should perform better against infantry. They should not be afraid of asymmetric factions. If you run a Titan maniple you’ll wipe out an infantry and armor list but get stomped by Titan killers, aircraft, and artillery. 

[BolterZorro]

22 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Keeping the reactor and shield mechanics shouldn’t be too difficult with some tweaks, and to be honest, titans should perform better against infantry. They should not be afraid of asymmetric factions. If you run a Titan maniple you’ll wipe out an infantry and armor list but get stomped by Titan killers, aircraft, and artillery. 

Probably....but it is a points game and GW already stated that infantry is the best (if not mandatory) for objectives...

[Noserenda]

Objectives are irrelevant if you either a) Dont care or b) Eradicate the enemy in a storm of horrific overkill

[Cleon]

Hopefully a small group of Titan specific infantry (tech guard, secutarii etc) to accompany a Titan force will be available eventually and protecting them with Titan fire should help make up for the lack of numbers on an objective.

[BolterZorro]

Maybe, maybe not... I just saw the size comparison of a thunderhawk and a titan: the plane's canon is huge. I think that planes have their chance against titans.... and probably tanks (by numbers).

 

I'm weak. I broke down. Shame on me. I found (and bought) a titanicus starter set to begin the preparation of my IL units. (the funny thing is that I sold all my AT boxes including 2 starters " years ago because of lack of time and space)

[Noserenda]

Oh yeah planes are pretty brutal against even titans, the Thunderhawk can mount a turbo laser and most of the rest have some combination of lascannons and missiles that can cause concern. 

Chief advantage is the bizarre lack of AAA weapons on titans because the main three designs were done long before aircraft were a concern in Epic :D The Warlord and Reaver should both definitely have some servitor anti air turrets, much like the point defence guns they gave the Warlord during its recent revamp.

They could ofc chuck in a boxout about that being a design flaw due to the lack of airpower on Mars due to rust storms or something during the Age of strife? 

 

[apologist]

Oddly enough, I'm sure there was a blurb about airpower in the 41st Millennium being conspicuously poor and offering various reasons for this, like orks being afraid of flying. Amusingly, I think it accompanyed an Epic article about the then-new Imperial Thunderbolt and Marauder.

 

That's very much fallen by the wayside since! 

 

+Edit+

Looks like I was mistaken – or at least it's not in this particular article:

 

 

On the other hand, 90s Marketing was not above a little hyperbole when drumming up interest for their tour :D

Edited July 5, 2023 by apologist

[BolterZorro]

In a ocean of weakness of mine, I took few planes, including a thunderhawk. 
As the starter sets are mostly out of stock eveywhere for the reasons we know (RIP AI?), what do I need to play/test this game (AI)? Where can I find a map to print?

[Arkhanist]

57 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

They could ofc chuck in a boxout about that being a design flaw due to the lack of airpower on Mars due to rust storms or something during the Age of strife? 

 

 

IIRC, Mars' did have an artifically generated oxygen-rich atmosphere and surface water during the Dark Age of Technology, but it was destroyed during the warfare of the Age of Strife, and the planet reverted to its very thin, dry primordial state - plus a bunch of radiation and chemical weapon pollution. With a very thin (and dangerous) atmosphere, large powered aircraft become quite difficult as you get very little lift - you're more building spacecraft instead, which requires a higher tech base.

 

So during the latter age of strife (which did last ~5000 years!), when Titans were created by the Cult Mechanicum to retake control of the planet, aircraft likely *wouldn't* have been much of a factor. They could still potentially have faced small drones ala Mars Ingenuity, or big, slow dirigibles, but neither would be much of a threat to titans. The only native aircraft I can think of that the Mechanicum 'always had' is the Archaeopter, which was used for the explorator fleets, but we don't know when they got the STC, and it's not much of a strike aircraft anyway. They mainly just went straight to spaceships, and lifters to get to and from orbit for the Explorator Fleets. And of course, once they unified with Terra, they saw the various Navy and Marine aircraft as part of the Great Crusade, but the titan designs by then were long since set without considering aircraft a threat, and we know how resistant the Mechanicus are to tinkering with their holy designs!

 

They probably just had some type of Secutarii-manned AA platform to support the titans, or maybe some kind of ordinatus - perhaps the old ordinatus golgotha could be retconned to the heresy era and used as an AA platform!

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Arkhanist

[Sete]

As long as they make Unique mini chars with legion specific command squad, I'm happy. 

For example Sigismund with a Templar command squad for the Fists.

 

Having Legion/ armies specific units will be a selling point I hope.

[Noserenda]

Id love them to do a little pack with the Primarch and a selection of special characters for the legion, maybe a few sergeants and banners or something too? It wouldnt drive the cost of the pack up hugely in theory but it saves the precious SKU's! Then do another for the Legion special units, its hard to say how many because that depends entirely on how they organise them for list building.

[redmapa]

I think this the perfect scale to bring Primarchs in the form of their own personalized vehicles, Aetos Dios Thunderhawk for Dorn vs Perturabo's Tormentor Baneblade or Guilliman's Mastodon or a Land Fortress for Ferrus or something. It's an aspect of Primarchs that's seldom seen, as true commanders taking to the field in a command vehicle as opposed to epic mythical heroes.

[Captain Idaho]

Speaking of Mastadons... I think I can finally afford one!

 

I would love to see those personalised vehicles though.

[Burni]

How much do you think they’ll charge for a single 8mm FW resin Praetor? 

[SkimaskMohawk]

6 hours ago, Burni said:

How much do you think they’ll charge for a single 8mm FW resin Praetor? 

 

How much do they charge for the planes? Turns out two fire raptors are $60cad; two resin marauders are 80. So...a lot.

 

 

[Orion]

13 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

How much do they charge for the planes? Turns out two fire raptors are $60cad; two resin marauders are 80. So...a lot.

 

 

The "resin" Marauders are like 90% plastic in cost and model. It's $7aud difference. Pretty sure that's the cheapest bit of resin GW has ever sold.

 

Whether or not the tiny planes are worth it is another question. I always figure I'd just put my time and money to a fullsize Avenger or something.

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 minutes ago, JayJapanB said:

The "resin" Marauders are like 90% plastic in cost and model. It's $7aud difference. Pretty sure that's the cheapest bit of resin GW has ever sold.

 

Whether or not the tiny planes are worth it is another question. I always figure I'd just put my time and money to a fullsize Avenger or something.

 

Yea a bit unfamiliar with the ranges. So the pure plastic marauders are $60 cad, with an extra $20 slapped on for the resin nothing bits to get to that $80.

 

It's a terrible price; two warhounds are $90 for comparisons sake, and 3 Killa kans are $75.

[Marshal Rohr]

60 for two gunships and 80 for two mainline bombers is pretty reasonable. A Reaver is 60.