Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Orion]

21 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Yea a bit unfamiliar with the ranges. So the pure plastic marauders are $60 cad, with an extra $20 slapped on for the resin nothing bits to get to that $80.

 

It's a terrible price; two warhounds are $90 for comparisons sake, and 3 Killa kans are $75.

Well the price difference varies greatly per country.

Australia it's 69CAD for plastic 75CAD with resin upgrades. An extra $6CAD, which I think is perfectly reasonable. You can't ask for cheaper really.

That's why price discussions get complicated on a global discussion.

[SkimaskMohawk]

34 minutes ago, JayJapanB said:

Well the price difference varies greatly per country.

Australia it's 69CAD for plastic 75CAD with resin upgrades. An extra $6CAD, which I think is perfectly reasonable. You can't ask for cheaper really.

That's why price discussions get complicated on a global discussion.

 

At either currency/conversion the price is terrible. For that matter, most of AT is pretty poorly priced , with the hounds being the only unit that feels like a good deal. 

 

GW models are already a gouge, and these 6mm-8mm ones are mostly priced even higher than their standard offerings; 3 marine sized questoris knights are $55, while you can get a standard 10 tacticals for $70 (or 20 for $100); 3 resin guard sized armigers on 25mm bases for $68. These prices were excused as you needed low volume of models to play, but epic requires the opposite; lots of models. 

 

Like, this cost $30 to get printed

Spoiler

 

Or you can get one fire Raptor/storm eagle/marauder/ half a thunderhawk...

 

 

[Orion]

9 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

At either currency/conversion the price is terrible. For that matter, most of AT is pretty poorly priced , with the hounds being the only unit that feels like a good deal. 

 

GW models are already a gouge, and these 6mm-8mm ones are mostly priced even higher than their standard offerings; 3 marine sized questoris knights are $55, while you can get a standard 10 tacticals for $70 (or 20 for $100); 3 resin guard sized armigers on 25mm bases for $68. These prices were excused as you needed low volume of models to play, but epic requires the opposite; lots of models. 

 

Like, this cost $30 to get printed

  Hide contents

 

Or you can get one fire Raptor/storm eagle/marauder/ half a thunderhawk...

 

 

 

I'll pay whatever if I like something enough. In this case, I'm not into the scale in general, so it's hard to say what they're worth.

 

I'm used to people saying Krieg are a ripoff, and recommending proxies. But the thing is, I don't want the proxies. I want the Krieg sculpts. You're not saving any money if you don't get what you want. imo.

[Orion]

12 hours ago, apologist said:

Oddly enough, I'm sure there was a blurb about airpower in the 41st Millennium being conspicuously poor and offering various reasons for this, like orks being afraid of flying. Amusingly, I think it accompanyed an Epic article about the then-new Imperial Thunderbolt and Marauder.

 

That's very much fallen by the wayside since! 

 

+Edit+

Looks like I was mistaken – or at least it's not in this particular article:

 

 

On the other hand, 90s Marketing was not above a little hyperbole when drumming up interest for their tour :D

This is fantastic.
 

When I emailed GW support recently about 10th ed grenadier rules they gave me some blanked "Go email RulesFAQ"

But the way it was worded involved threatening to kill me if I waste their time:

 

Quote

WARNING: Check carefully in your pre-prescribed codecies and literature. Should your question already have been covered in the relevant reference treatise, texts and tomes, you will be deemed to have wasted valuable resource and may be subject to Commissarial punishment up to and including summary execution.
 

 

[DuskRaider]

26 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

At either currency/conversion the price is terrible. For that matter, most of AT is pretty poorly priced , with the hounds being the only unit that feels like a good deal. 

 

GW models are already a gouge, and these 6mm-8mm ones are mostly priced even higher than their standard offerings; 3 marine sized questoris knights are $55, while you can get a standard 10 tacticals for $70 (or 20 for $100); 3 resin guard sized armigers on 25mm bases for $68. These prices were excused as you needed low volume of models to play, but epic requires the opposite; lots of models. 

 

Like, this cost $30 to get printed

  Hide contents

 

Or you can get one fire Raptor/storm eagle/marauder/ half a thunderhawk...

 

 

Yeah but none of it looks like 30K / 40K models. If I need a constant rundown of what you’re fielding across from my legit models then we’re going to have a problem.

[BolterZorro]

5 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Like, this cost $30 to get printed

We won't run in this debat but your comparison is not fair: "30$ to get printed" compared to "official street price of GW". You should compare to "20cts to get moulded" by GW. :-P

 

This blue army is wonderful BTW.
It really depends on circumstances: in a garage battle, I'd be glad to fight such an army, with Epic rules (netepic or E Armagedon). But in a more 30k official game, this is less the case...

I hope that more and more people print their xenos, chaos etc... armies in the new Epic Scale (which is a bit bigger than the original size).

[BolterZorro]

I'm weak, I've ordered some titans to welcome the Legions.

My intents are to divide the forces in 2 groups of titans with a kind of thematic forces. I don't have everything in double.  My main problem is that I have absolutely no idea of the relative power of those titans (and it is worse for IL lol). I just receive 1h ago my first pack: the titanicus starter (2 reaver 2 wh 2 cerastus) and I'll receive next week 1 box of each tiny titans, 1 nemesis and 1 warlord with plasma.

Could you give me some insight about each class of titans so I can divide them all in 2 groups? 

[ZeroWolf]

21 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

I'm weak, I've ordered some titans to welcome the Legions.

My intents are to divide the forces in 2 groups of titans with a kind of thematic forces. I don't have everything in double.  My main problem is that I have absolutely no idea of the relative power of those titans (and it is worse for IL lol). I just receive 1h ago my first pack: the titanicus starter (2 reaver 2 wh 2 cerastus) and I'll receive next week 1 box of each tiny titans, 1 nemesis and 1 warlord with plasma.

Could you give me some insight about each class of titans so I can divide them all in 2 groups? 

Are they still selling the AT starter set?

[BolterZorro]

2 minutes ago, ZeroWolf said:

Are they still selling the AT starter set?

Those who have it in stock ...which are super rare, giving that this product is out of stock. I was lucky enough to find one last box but at full price....full price before the price was raised lol (it was 130€  at the begginning then 140 now: I got it with the old price tag hahaha).

 

The interesting thing is that at GW, it is ONLY TEMPORARILY out of stock. There is hope...

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, BolterZorro said:

We won't run in this debat but your comparison is not fair: "30$ to get printed" compared to "official street price of GW". You should compare to "20cts to get moulded" by GW

 

I think it's a pretty fair comparison, since my buddy makes a profit when he prints for me; I'm paying both for the finished models at the end of the process, not "it only costs me $10 in resin for this army". 

 

@DuskRaider because it's not for 40k? It's for full spectrum dominance. 

 

The point was price to scale; I can take a couple of 20s and get a really solid epic force out of all the actual 6mm marine stls that are out there. Like I already got a bunch for basing my titans anyways, might as well get more use out of them.

Edited July 6, 2023 by SkimaskMohawk

[DuskRaider]

34 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

I think it's a pretty fair comparison, since my buddy makes a profit when he prints for me; I'm paying both for the finished models at the end of the process, not "it only costs me $10 in resin for this army". 

 

@DuskRaider because it's not for 40k? It's for full spectrum dominance. 

 

The point was price to scale; I can take a couple of 20s and get a really solid epic force out of all the actual 6mm marine stls that are out there. Like I already got a bunch for basing my titans anyways, might as well get more use out of them.

Ahhh okay, I thought you were saying it was an Epic proxy army. I’ve seen some pretty wonky 40K proxy armies over the years so forgive me lol

[BolterZorro]

47 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

I think it's a pretty fair comparison, since my buddy makes a profit when he prints for me; I'm paying both for the finished models at the end of the process, not "it only costs me $10 in resin for this army". 

hahah you compare price of a LEGIT enterprise with offical price, tax, labor, industrial investment....against a "buddy" which HAS NOT the right to sell the minis because full speectrum dominance has no commercial licence, and your price is a hand to hand zero tax price. No, I regret, this is not a fair comparison.

Well, end of debat as I personally sell prints at this scale with LEGIT commercial licences and indeed, it is far less expensive than GW boxes. BTW, at 30$ for what you show in the picture, it is absolutely not viable for a legit work/job (larbor cost/taxes/price of resin+consumable like alchool etc/investment of machines etc..., and I KNOW what I'm talking about as a professionnal one)

Please, don't share thoose infox to mislead people with real price of legit 3D profesional printers/manufacturers.

Edited July 6, 2023 by BolterZorro

[DemonGSides]

21 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

hahah you compare price of a LEGIT enterprise with offical price, tax, labor, industrial investment....against a "buddy" which HAS NOT the right to sell the minis because full speectrum dominance has no commercial licence, and your price is a hand to hand zero tax price. No, I regret, this is not a fair comparison.

Well, end of debat as I personally sell prints at this scale with LEGIT commercial licences and indeed, it is far less expensive than GW boxes. BTW, at 30$ for what you show in the picture, it is absolutely not viable for a legit work/job (larbor cost/taxes/price of resin+consumable like alchool etc/investment of machines etc..., and I KNOW what I'm talking about as a professionnal one)

Please, don't share thoose infox to mislead people with real price of legit 3D profesional printers/manufacturers.

 

I'm pretty sure the posters point was to say "We are being overcharged" not that it was commercially viable to sell a full army at $30.  The comparison was to say "This is what $30 of resin looks like, half the price of a single AI model." to show the absurdity of the pricing structure that GW currently has.

Pretty sure you're just missing his point.

Edited July 6, 2023 by DemonGSides

[DuskRaider]

2 hours ago, BolterZorro said:

I'm weak, I've ordered some titans to welcome the Legions.

My intents are to divide the forces in 2 groups of titans with a kind of thematic forces. I don't have everything in double.  My main problem is that I have absolutely no idea of the relative power of those titans (and it is worse for IL lol). I just receive 1h ago my first pack: the titanicus starter (2 reaver 2 wh 2 cerastus) and I'll receive next week 1 box of each tiny titans, 1 nemesis and 1 warlord with plasma.

Could you give me some insight about each class of titans so I can divide them all in 2 groups? 

I probably should multi-quoted instead of multi-posting, but here we are. 
 

As far as Titan classes go, at this point we have 4 (or at least it’s how I group them):

 

Light: Warhounds (including the Dire Wolf)

Medium: Reavers and Warbringers

Heavy:  Warlords

Oh Lawd He Comin!: Warmaster 

 

Knights are their own little class. Individually they can’t go toe to toe with the bigger guys but in Banners and especially Lances they stand more of a chance of taking them down (especially with Porphyrions in their ranks). 

Each Titan class has their strengths and weaknesses. The smaller, the faster but also more fragile. Weapon strength increases as the size does with a couple exceptions: Dire Wolves have a Reaver weapon on their backs and Warbringers have a Warlord weapon on theirs so they’re “punching up”, so to speak. 
 

When you get up to Warlord size you start running into minimum distance weaponry. If an enemy gets too close, the weapon is unable to hit them. 
 

Looking at what you have, it’s going to be a bit difficult balancing it out. Your best bet would be to have the Warhounds go with the Warlord and the Reavers go with the Warbringer but that’s still not enough. Titanicus uses Maniples… basically formations that have a minimum number of specific Titans that you can then build upon depending on the point level you’re using. You can substitute some Titans with others depending on the Legio you choose. 
 

At minimum, you’ll probably need another Warhound or two and a couple more Reavers. Personally, Reavers are my favorite in AT. They’re a great compromise on size and points considering your other options, they have a ton of options for weaponry, and depending on how you outfit them they can drop just about anything on the board if you’re smart about it. 

[BolterZorro]

35 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

At minimum, you’ll probably need another Warhound or two and a couple more Reavers. Personally, Reavers are my favorite in AT. They’re a great compromise on size and points considering your other options, they have a ton of options for weaponry, and depending on how you outfit them they can drop just about anything on the board if you’re smart about it. 

thank you for all the infos.

 

If I'm counting right, and considering that with 2 upcoming IL boxes (4 additional warhounds), my titans bunch will be:

3 questoris, 6 cerastus (with variants) , 2 porphirions, 6 (lol) wahounds, E reavers, 1 nemesis, 1 warlord with plasma. (and some planes, one of them a thunderhawk);

 

I don't plan to play AT as I don't really like the micro management of the boards, so, they are full for IL (or Epic).

I'm hesitating for the warmaster (good for collection and having the full range of miniatures but ouch, expensive and a bit too big compared to IL minis...and playable/balanced? )

I'm also hesitating with a 2nd warlord (or nemesis?)

 

EDIT: PS which warmaster do you advice? And which warlord?

what do you think?

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by BolterZorro

[DuskRaider]

11 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

thank you for all the infos.

 

If I'm counting right, and considering that with 2 upcoming IL boxes (4 additional warhounds), my titans bunch will be:

3 questoris, 6 cerastus (with variants) , 2 porphirions, 6 (lol) wahounds, E reavers, 1 nemesis, 1 warlord with plasma. (and some planes, one of them a thunderhawk);

 

I don't plan to play AT as I don't really like the micro management of the boards, so, they are full for IL (or Epic).

I'm hesitating for the warmaster (good for collection and having the full range of miniatures but ouch, expensive and a bit too big compared to IL minis...and playable/balanced? )

I'm also hesitating with a 2nd warlord (or nemesis?)

 

what do you think?

 

Well at this point we don’t know how Titans will work in LI. We don’t know if there’s a cap on the points a force can have that consists of Titans or if we can take an entire Maniple and even then we don’t know if Titans will have a point adjustment for LI when compared to AT. 
 

Honestly, I’d still consider Titanicus. The management isn’t horrible. I won’t say it’s intuitive but it’s not as bad as it seems. It basically comes down to keeping track of movement which is pretty simple, it’s similar to 40K tanks. You have Commands which again, not bad. The management tracks on the cards are pretty simple as well. Your biggest obstacle at this point is getting your hands on the cards and dataslates. It seems everything is scarce these days when it comes to GW and places like eBay are your best bet for better or worse. 

[BolterZorro]

With the starter and a good printer, I have everything I need for AT but I don't want to invest time on it. I hope that there won't be a command board/dataslate management in IL,: a simple  boom fizzzzz paf dices rolls and we're done is enough for me and the sake of the game.

What is your feeling about the warmaster? is it worth? or is it more reasonable to invest in another one: hesitating between a second warlord or a secon nemesis...

[Marshal Rohr]

This is great. I hope it means Armigers coming in plastic too. At this point I can hit the ground running with a pretty sizeable Gryphonicus and Aeronautica contingent to complement what’s in the box. 

[DuskRaider]

30 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

With the starter and a good printer, I have everything I need for AT but I don't want to invest time on it. I hope that there won't be a command board/dataslate management in IL,: a simple  boom fizzzzz paf dices rolls and we're done is enough for me and the sake of the game.

What is your feeling about the warmaster? is it worth? or is it more reasonable to invest in another one: hesitating between a second warlord or a secon nemesis...

The Warmaster is… unique. It’s extremely point prohibitive but it’s also pretty difficult to take down. It has some nasty weaponry but I’m not really sure it’s worth the cost in-game. Sure it’s hard to take down but it’s all invested in a single Titan that’s easier to focus fire than multiple Titans scattered across the board. 
 

I’ll be honest though, I have one but it’s been sub-assembled for paint for about two years now, same with the Warbringers. 
 

I’m skeptical about fielding Maniples in LI. I think they’re going to say that it’s too powerful to field against the other armies and they’re going to handicap it somehow. I do believe that they’ll allow Knight Houses, however. You can field an entire House in AT but they’re EXTREMELY prohibitive as far as rules and it’s an uphill battle against a Maniple, especially when you have Titan weaponry that can erase an entire Banner a turn. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by DuskRaider

[BolterZorro]

At first, I think that they'll go simple with titans which will be (far) bigger tanks like in 40k rules. Maybe later, in the development, we'll see some kind of codex, one or more specific to them.

 

today at warcom, we see the release of the plastic kit of the war wolf. Nice. But I find that it is unfortunate not to include it in the IL starter: for pplayers like me who have the AT starter+ want to get 2 IL starter, you'll have 6 warhounds...phhh. 

I hope (but I'm really doubtful) that they release the specific mounting weapon sprue  separately.

 

[DuskRaider]

1 minute ago, BolterZorro said:

At first, I think that they'll go simple with titans which will be (far) bigger tanks like in 40k rules. Maybe later, in the development, we'll see some kind of codex, one or more specific to them.

 

today at warcom, we see the release of the plastic kit of the war wolf. Nice. But I find that it is unfortunate not to include it in the IL starter: for pplayers like me who have the AT starter+ want to get 2 IL starter, you'll have 6 warhounds...phhh. 

I hope (but I'm really doubtful) that they release the specific mounting weapon sprue  separately.

 

There are Maniples in AT that consist only of Warhounds (and Dire Wolves). There are some Legios that can also substitute other Titans with Warhounds as well, like Audax and I believe Solaria. In fact, Audax ONLY has Warhounds. They’re a Legio which consists of only Scout Titans. It’s pretty cool. 

[Dark Shepherd]

Im still holding out hope we get some nicely discounted boxes of planes especially

 

GW have to know that Epic sized armies arent going to sell well at AI/AT prices. Theres also economoy of scale when it comes to production for a presumably much more populae game system

[Noserenda]

Yeah 6 warhounds isnt very many... :D 

Im hoping they dont simplify titans too much, they lost a lot in the last couple of Epic editions when they did, hell, they were almost entirely superfluous in Armageddon to boot. :( Mostly because they were only one activation for a ton of points and you could replicate their firepower etc with regular stuff.

You dont need to be running the full Titanicus, but a bit more detail can work fine when the model in question is a significant chunk of your army.

[Warmaster1988]

Do you think we get the rules in french, german, spanisch, italia & japanese?

[Nova-V]

19 minutes ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Im still holding out hope we get some nicely discounted boxes of planes especially

 

GW have to know that Epic sized armies arent going to sell well at AI/AT prices. Theres also economoy of scale when it comes to production for a presumably much more populae game system

 

This is my biggest worry for LI.  It's promoted as large scale game with the promo vid showing full armies clashing.  Yet if pricing follows AI/AT the cost of getting such forces on the table will outstrip 40k at 2,000 points.  I love the look of the models and I love the idea of a high level game, I just don't want to be priced out of it.