Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Interrogator Stobz]

1 hour ago, stretch_135 said:

 

Current thinking is Air Assault White Scars - Storm Eagles, Fire Raptors, Thunderhawks, Xiphons and Stormbirds galore. Probably backed up with Titans and Knights for fun.

100% this^^

 

Defo doing something I can't do in 28mm... Titans and Planes

[FarvegNugan]

2e epic was my favourite gw game. I played alot of 40k and fantasy, but epic was the big one for most of the 90s. 

 

    Personally in rebuilding my old guard army first as solar auxilia, as well as using my battletech stuff as non imperial humans, because why not, since it's battle armour,  mechs and tanks and aircraft, I will likely use them as marines. Hopefully when mechanicum and imperial army comes we will get even more variety for counts as. I have a whole lot of Centurion tanks too. 

 

   I might rebuild my old 2k point SM army, not sure I'm probably just going to buy a stupid amount of auxilia..with a pair of warhounds and a reaver titan. 

 

    Back in 2e they were better then warlords at fighting titans, now I don't think they will be. But still, most of my titan kills came from my happy little blaineblades, stormblades and shadow swords..and land Raiders. My old SM army had alot of them.

Edited July 12, 2023 by FarvegNugan

[Fire Golem]

Man I really feel the last few pages have been really misrepresented here. A few people said they wanted other armour marks, a couple of people said they’d rather the resources be used on other stuff and then one person said ‘I’d rather Xenos than the same unit in different types of armour’ and we had literally a page of ‘no Xenos! It’s not happening! Dead horse! Off topic!’ Etc. The Xenos stuff had mostly been dropped already, and I think it’s fair to be a little bit stung that GW aren’t willing to put the resources in to do different races, but people are hoping that they use some of the limited resources for the game on just rereleasing the same models in different armour. I personally don’t mind it being heresy only, but I’ll be annoyed if right at the start of the game we get 4 versions of the same unit instead of what could be 4 different units. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by fire golem

[spessmarine]

19 hours ago, Redcomet said:

That would be such a waste of plastic. 

 

Marine armour marks definitely low on my list of priorities. I'd even go as far as to reduce special weapons squads to just that, special weapons squad rather than dudes with X.

Breadth and variety would be my priority.

[Sparika]

The xenos discussion gives me fond memories of the discussion regarding Heresy and 8th edition. It's a shame for Aeronautica, but it is easy to see why it was shelved  (not much activity) and I'm actually surprised they intend to maintain the ruleset. I would have liked the opportunity to buy a 2nd Eldar raider, but GW probably makes it revenue on new releases and if a game isn't successful enough the production slots probably aren't worth the money.

Now about Legiones Imperialis ... I'm so excited. I started the hobby in 2004, picked Battlefleet Gothic instead of Epic (which I don't regret). And then .. the catastrophe, Specialist Game cease production! After that release, the only thing missing in my collection will be the battle of 5 armies and BattleFleet Solar : BFGv2 in Horus Heresy setting.

As someone said previously, I'm curious to see pics of a full army. I have plenty of Titans, Knights and Planes so I should be able to jump straight at a big game but I am wondering what should be the proportion of each type of units (infantry, tanks, titans, planes) to form two valid forces.

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= As rad as Xenos would be in LI, we'll leave that topic there for now as it won't be in this release =][=

[apologist]

2 hours ago, spessmarine said:

I'd even go as far as to reduce special weapons squads to just that, special weapons squad rather than dudes with X.

 

Taking this point in isolation, I'm coming round to the idea of differentiating special weapons, even though I'm usually an advocate for abstraction.

 

This is partly because of the focus on Space Marines. In recent editions of Epic, most 'standard' infantry were abstracted to 'small arms', which meant they didn't have a shooting attack per se. Space Marines were an exception, in that Tactical stands had a Missile Launcher, which allowed them a single shot per stand; and Devastator stands had two of the same.

 

This worked very nicely in an edition in which Space Marines were just one of many; and with the background where special/heavy weapons were both the exception within a squad, and mix and match. It would have been far too granular to have (say) rules for an odd flamer or single plasma cannon here or there.

 

+++

 

In Legions, with slightly larger models making differentiation more obvious, and with squads armed universally with a particular special or heavy weapon, I think it could work much better. 

 

The whole point of the particular Support Squads is that they do something specific: anti-tank; anti-infantry etc., and that's a key difference that offers a lot of potential variety within a force, helping with theme.

 

Where Space Marine infantry were formerly limited to Assault, Tactical, Devastator (plus Veteran, Terminator and Scout) stands; there's now lots more potential options, which should make for richer games and more interesting choices for infantry.

Edited July 12, 2023 by apologist

[BolterZorro]

I am looking forward to seeing the rules for titans: I'd so much like to make big battle of full armies of titans without having to micromanage each one on a per titan basis(the AT way).

Same for planes (against titans of course). 

Then I'll attach some infantry (and tanks!) to play a bit more closely to the IL rules and points (well, you know, the objectives..., not the full gansta kill 'em all stuff )

Edited July 12, 2023 by BolterZorro

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yeah, hopefully the rules will be as simple as possible. 

I have too much AT to really play it all without having an aneurism. 

I usually play against my teenage boy, like me at his age he remembers every single rule and option; as a fully functional adult my brain doesn't have the RAM nor disk space to store and retrieve all that guff anymore. I just want to set up and throw dice going Pew Pew a bit... with a Zoom zoom and Stomp stomp on the side.

At least there are templates so the game will have a spacial element.

[BolterZorro]

5 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

I usually play against my teenage boy, like me at his age he remembers every single rule and option; as a fully functional adult my brain doesn't have the RAM nor disk space to store and retrieve all that guff anymore. I just want to set up and throw dice going Pew Pew a bit... with a Zoom zoom and Stomp stomp on the side.

At least there are templates so the game will have a spacial element.

This is the way! I just want tons of mini on the table going boom boom pew pew !

(and you'll see, when you are my age...need more than a Ram and disk upgrade: CPU is overheating, case is a wreck (while going bigger and bigger), OS is just completly out of date... lol)

 

[Marshal Rohr]

You guys think they will do an Imperator now? Like the Warmaster was already a decent ‘Boss Titan’ for narrative games but was prohibitively expensive in points to do much else with. With Titans in LI being more like big tanks and walkers in 40K it would fit with the game better and act like a Titan in normal games. They were the big showpiece models of first edition epic and if I understand the Lore right they are just Warmasters with a gun deck cathedral on the shoulders. 
 

Personally, I think the could be a big draw for people on the fence and the home made versions people have done look really cool. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It still struggles with being too big for the game, its already about the limit to get a Warmaster on the warlord base, the Imperator couldn't fit on it as well, it would probably end up on something bigger, either a new size, or a knight base. which means you have to be able to move it around the board, and leaving gaps for a base that big in the terrain would mean other models would struggle to hide.

 

Saying that, I would love to see it redesigned, but I can't see it being fun to play with or against.

 

[Marshal Rohr]

The Warmaster is the same size as the 40K Knight Paladin, so I think with the Cerastus coming out they may have resolved whatever limitation was capping kits out at the Warmaster/Dominus height and base. As for it being fun, the idea of Space Marine dropping onto a Titan from Gunships as it blasts its way through the rest of the army sounds like a massive amount of fun. I think Titans will be strong and the big titans will get treated like LoW in normal games, but I don’t think that kinda high stakes race against the clock will not be fun, especially with alternating activations. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I wasn't referring to the height, it's the actual space on the base that's the issue. Squeezing the Warmaster on the warlord base is about the limit of what it can do, and leaves very little room for posing. (You end up with them overhanging the rim quite often) they needed to use the same base size in AT for the arc template to work.

 

An Imperator would need to have a bigger base, a new arc template, and a lot of room on the board.

[Marshal Rohr]

Ah ok, totally agree. 

[Valkyrion]

Just going back to Tactical Support Squads and Heavy Support Squads;

In 30k you have a baseline bolter. 

For anti infantry you have short ranged auto hitting flamer, short range volkite with more shots, short range anti tank melta, medium range anti elite plasma.

You then have medium range anti infantry heavy bolter, medium range anti infantry heavy volkite, long range anti infantry missile, long range anti tank missile, long range anti tank las, short range anti tank melta, long range anti everything but worse than other things in the same role autocannon and anti elite plasma and I've probably forgotten something.

 

Can that level of nuance really be reached in a massive (but tiny) scale? 

[Marshal Rohr]

There are 5 basic troop types in Horus Heresy games:

 

-Tactical Squads

-Breacher Squads

-Assault Squads

-Despoiler Squads

-Recon Squads

 

I imagine each of those will get a detachment box of their own. Two of those squad types are special in nature and probably not conducive to using a tactical support squad, but the way the initial Detachment they’ve already shown have been released has support units mixed in. Extrapolating on that one sprue will probably be a command base, four tactical bases, a single plasma gun base, a single Cataphractii base, and a single missile base. 
 

So when they start to do ‘Despoiler Detachments’ and ‘Breacher Detachments’ that is when we will see other types of special and heavy weapons come in. 

[DuskRaider]

31 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

I wasn't referring to the height, it's the actual space on the base that's the issue. Squeezing the Warmaster on the warlord base is about the limit of what it can do, and leaves very little room for posing. (You end up with them overhanging the rim quite often) they needed to use the same base size in AT for the arc template to work.

 

An Imperator would need to have a bigger base, a new arc template, and a lot of room on the board.

I would think that if they release an Imperator for LI / AT it would probably include an arc template specifically for its size. It does make me wonder how large one would be since GW has re-scaled Titans from what they used to be.  
 

Honestly I think a lot of it is due to cost… if they were to release an Imperator it would *have* to be in plastic to make the investment worthwhile and reach more potential customers than if it were FW only. It would have to include a lot in the box as well to step up to a whole new Titanic scale as well. 

[Matrindur]

For anyone talking about if we would even need the granularity of different support weapons and heavy weapons here, we already get different weapon option on the bases itself. And its also not every base has the same different weapons which could just be included in the stats. Only one Cataphractii base has a Thunderhammer leader, only one Assault Squad base has a plasma pistol sergeant. There are also at least two Sergeant options with Chainsword and Power Sword that are used for the Tactical Squad and the Plasma Support Squad in the images but could be used for any squad if the rules allowed it. These could be just optical but as many said in 8mm scale that isn't that important unless they actually have different rules and so are going for wysiwyg. 

Since different Sergeant weapons are way more granular than a whole squad of different weapons would be, I very much think we will see different support and heavy weapons.

 

These are the singular bodies I can see on the different images.

Spoiler

From the WarCom reveal article we know SM have 106 infantry and walkers so 102 not counting the four Contemptors. All under the assumption that they are all a single part and not different weapons glued to the same body would be pretty hard at that scale.

 

Command Squad base:

• 1 Centurion (WarCom calls him a Centurion-level officer so we might get different bases with praetors later)
• 1 Vexilla with Power Fist
• 1 Chosen with Chainfist? (Not an option in HH2.0, Also seems to have some kind of scanner on the backpack)
• 2 Chosen with Bolters

Tactical Squad bases:

• At least 19x Tactial Marines
• 1 Tactical Marine with Vexilla

Assault Squad base:

• 4 Assault Marines with Chainswords
• 1 Assault Marine with Power Axe and Hand Flamer
• 1 Assault Sergeant with Power Fist and Plasma Pistol

Plasma Support Squad base:

• 5 Plasma Marines

Missile Support Squad base:

• 4 Missile Marines
• 1 Missile Sergeant

Cataphractii Squad base:

• 4 Cataphractii with Combi and Power Fist
• 1 Cataphractii with Combi and Chainfist
• 1 Cataphractii Sergeant with Combi and Thunderhammer plus Grenade Harness

Extra Sergeants

• Sergeant with Power Sword (Seen in the Group shot in the WarCom reveal article)
• Sergeant with Chainsword and Hand Flamer (Seen in the individual images of the Plasma Squad)

 

That would be 49 bodies assumed to be on a single sprue which will be doubled up which would give us a total of 98 bodies so still four short of the 102 written about on WarCom. So there could still be more options just not shown yet or I missed some

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Matrindur

[Redcomet]

I would be surprised if a single stand has more than 1 ranged and/or melee profile. It would slow down the game a lot and would make the game feel like mini 30k instead of its own game.

[Captain Idaho]

Hmm... I doubt we'll see melta guns and Flamers as they'll be classed as small arms.

 

It'll be plasma guns, missile launchers and maybe another heavy weapon for infantry.

 

Reason I'll throw my hat in that side of the ring, an article talks of Contemptors having differing weapons, lascannons and assault cannon.

 

So we got some different weapons but not a fully 28mm range.

[BolterZorro]

In short, the weapon types are: anti infantry, anti armor , blast (and maybe something in the middle) as it always has been calling it laser, melta, rocket etc... is just to give some game taste.

[Marshal Rohr]

Even in a small scale game you still need things to differentiate between HMG sections and Mortars and Anti-Tank weapons. I don’t think we will get every option but I would bet we get close, medium, and long range versions of Tactical and Heavy Support Squads 

[apologist]

4 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Just going back to Tactical Support Squads and Heavy Support Squads;

In 30k you have a baseline bolter. 

For anti infantry you have short ranged auto hitting flamer, short range volkite with more shots, short range anti tank melta, medium range anti elite plasma.

You then have medium range anti infantry heavy bolter, medium range anti infantry heavy volkite, long range anti infantry missile, long range anti tank missile, long range anti tank las, short range anti tank melta, long range anti everything but worse than other things in the same role autocannon and anti elite plasma and I've probably forgotten something.

 

Can that level of nuance really be reached in a massive (but tiny) scale? 

 

I think it can be reached, but that level of granularity would be undesirable. There is a happy medium, however – offering some variety for the most extreme, and consolidating similar profiles. 

 

Volkite culverin, rotor cannon and heavy bolter, for example, all share a roughly similar role – or at least similar enough that it doesn't matter at a high-level viewpoint. 

 

Likewise missile launcher, plasma cannon and autocannon could all be consolidated into a 'mid-range versatile' option, from a strategic point of view. 

 

If that is the approach they choose, I suspect that we'll simply get the sculpt for one such option, to avoid potential for confusion (in the same way that Epic Space Marines formerly had no option beyond 'Missile Launcher'), and the rest would simply not be seen. In the examples above, if we assume we get Heavy Bolters for the anti-horde option (as hip-carried machine guns have a very distinct silhouette from the shoulder-mounted finned Missile Launcher), then I'd be surprised to see a Rotor Cannon sculpt, for example.

 

 

4 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

There are 5 basic troop types in Horus Heresy games:

 

-Tactical Squads

-Breacher Squads

-Assault Squads

-Despoiler Squads

-Recon Squads

 

I imagine each of those will get a detachment box of their own. Two of those squad types are special in nature and probably not conducive to using a tactical support squad, but the way the initial Detachment they’ve already shown have been released has support units mixed in. Extrapolating on that one sprue will probably be a command base, four tactical bases, a single plasma gun base, a single Cataphractii base, and a single missile base. 
 

So when they start to do ‘Despoiler Detachments’ and ‘Breacher Detachments’ that is when we will see other types of special and heavy weapons come in. 

 

Yes, I think this is probably a clever way for GW to introduce armour marks by the back door, so to speak. @Matrindur's handy list above shows that there are lots of unit types missing from the sprue we've seen, and it wouldn't surprise me if we got a box called something like 'Siege Assault Company', which included:

• 1 Command Squad stand 
• 4 Breacher Squad stands 
• 1 Flamer Support Squad stand 
• 1 Multimelta Support Squad stand
• 1 Tartaros Terminator Squad stand
• 2 Tactical Legionary Squad stands

...all in Mark III armour.

 

Likewise, you could have a 'Forward Recon Company' for Mark IV:

• 1 Command Squad stand
• 4 Recon stands
• 1 Melta Support Squad stand
• 1 Lascannon Support Squad stand
• 1 Bike stand
• 2 Tactical Legionary Squad stands

 

This approach gives the different battlefield roles more of a visual difference than, say, having Mark VI with shields; and allows people the option of mixing in/customising the appearance of their army. It also means that GW doesn't double-up on boxes that are literally identical beyond the details of armour; but rather they each (at least nominally) serve a different role. 

 

The inclusion of the bolter-armed Tactical Legionaries would be GW's way to have an army (almost) entirely in a particular mark of armour.

 

Likewise, the specifics of the weapons and squads are purely speculative, but it ties into @Valkyrion's question abut granularity. Will we see the large range of weapons available at 40k scale? I doubt it – but we might see some options, given the tight focus Legions seem to show.

Edited July 12, 2023 by apologist

[Marshal Rohr]

Doing it that way would also encourage people like me who want to recreate our table top armies to expand into Allies. Buy a bunch of different sets and have one legion in mark 3, one in mark 4, and one in mark 6, etc. We will also most definitely get Destroyer, Recon/Seeker, Outrider/Speeders, and probably some kind of Veteran detachments too.