Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Who are the Dark Angles? Some sort of sinister mathematicians?

[Interrogator Stobz]

They are both obtuse and right at the same time.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

My only regret is that I can react to your reply only once.

[MithrilForge]

[Interrogator Stobz]

24 minutes ago, Mumeishi said:

Loving that image!

Bit off topic but I might use it for inspiration when painting my GK KT.

Loving that lilac, really different approach to normal. 

[Captain Idaho]

8 hours ago, Mumeishi said:

So a Question For the Mods team  ?.. Where will the forum for  Legions Imperialis  be located ???... HH forum or specialist/other games... 

 

M. 

 

 

We're working on it.

[Captain Idaho]

Want. Those little itty bitty Leviathans and Deredeo's... oh my.

[Lord_Ikka]

=][=Moved the discussion of the new Support Box to it's own thread, continue the discussion about that specific box here - 

This thread will continue to remain used for general LI discussion. =][=

Edited July 20, 2023 by Lord_Ikka

[apologist]

...and while it's related to the specific box, it also throws some light onto the approach GW might be taking more broadly. 

 

Quote

Every model in this article is available in the Legiones Astartes Support box, which contains four Leviathan Dreadnoughts, four Deredeo Dreadnoughts, four Rapier batteries – and their miniscule crew – alongside four Tarantula Batteries, all in plastic.

 

The question is whether we're going to have two identical small sprues, or one big sprue that's split in half.

 

If the former, I expect we'll have sufficient parts to arm them only as pictured – e.g. two Deredeos, one set of autocannons, one set of plasma cannons; rather than two sets of autocannons and two sets of plasma cannons. 

 

If the latter, there may be more options; but given the set poses, I'm leaning towards a single repeated sprue, as that's the same approach taken for Blood Bowl or Necromunda.

 

+++

 

The name's also quite generic. When the sprues in the launch box are released separately, think we'll see the box called 'Legion Astartes', or 'Legion Astartes Mark VI'?

Edited July 20, 2023 by apologist

[BolterZorro]

And now the big question is what will GW put for Auxilia in front of this nice set of Astartes support ?

BTW, I love it. gimi 2 boxes!

 

EDIT: with this box, we have already a dozen of infantry/tanks units to choose from plus a dozen in the pool of planes+kniths+titans....This is HUGE to start from and this is super nice for army build diversity ! luv it!

 

EDIT2: only 2 big missings: transports (rhino, land raider...) and fast atack (speeders, jetbikes etc...). Seeing what is done with this new box, I'm expecting 2 more boxes, one of fast, one of transports...

Edited July 20, 2023 by BolterZorro

[Matrindur]

6 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

And now the big question is what will GW put for Auxilia in front of this nice set of Astartes support ?

BTW, I love it. gimi 2 boxes!

Auxilia box will probably also have the Rapiers/Tarantulas and instead of the Dreadnoughts Basilisks and Medusas?

[Matrindur]

17 minutes ago, apologist said:

The question is whether we're going to have two identical small sprues, or one big sprue that's split in half.

 

If the former, I expect we'll have sufficient parts to arm them only as pictured – e.g. two Deredeos, one set of autocannons, one set of plasma cannons; rather than two sets of autocannons and two sets of plasma cannons. 

 

If the latter, there may be more options; but given the set poses, I'm leaning towards a single repeated sprue, as that's the same approach taken for Blood Bowl or Necromunda.

 

+++

 

The name's also quite generic. When the sprues in the launch box are released separately, think we'll see the box called 'Legion Astartes', or 'Legion Astartes Mark VI'?

Its for sure going to be a single smaller sprue doubled up, the same way aeronautica did it for everything. 

Its also very likely we won't get enough weapons for everyone to have the same but the poses aren't a sign for that as they very likely just painted up one of each and duplicated it for the images as the paint job is the exact same and even the bases have the same grooves 

[apologist]

53 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

And now the big question is what will GW put for Auxilia in front of this nice set of Astartes support ?

BTW, I love it. gimi 2 boxes!

 

EDIT2: only 2 big missings: transports (rhino, land raider...) and fast atack (speeders, jetbikes etc...). Seeing what is done with this new box, I'm expecting 2 more boxes, one of fast, one of transports...

 

46 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

Auxilia box will probably also have the Rapiers/Tarantulas and instead of the Dreadnoughts Basilisks and Medusas?

 

I think GW are going to want to use the first releases to emphasise the differences between the Legions Astartes and Solar Auxilia, rather than cover the same ground – and while I don't want to put too much faith in the list earlier, I'd note that the only non-flyer missing from the Solar Auxilia side is a bit exciting:

 

 

My guess is for a box that allows you to construct superheavy tanks, with similar sprue layout as the Aeronautica Bombers – that is, 2 in the box. 

 

Reasoning for that is the size of the models is roughly equivalent, and that the 'detachment size' value (6th stat) on the list is '1'. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

Its for sure going to be a single smaller sprue doubled up, the same way aeronautica did it for everything. 

Its also very likely we won't get enough weapons for everyone to have the same but the poses aren't a sign for that as they very likely just painted up one of each and duplicated it for the images as the paint job is the exact same and even the bases have the same grooves 

 

That sounds likely to me. Two bodies with different leg poses on each sprue, and one set of each gun option.

[Matcap86]

On those boards (Yes I like terrain). Saw elsewhere someone hypothesise that these could be like the necromunda tiles, with every tile being its own little city block. Which would be amazing and pretty likely from the pictures we've seen thusfar. 

[apologist]

Wanted to discuss a few bits from @Matrindur's post (thanks!):

+ General +

  Hide contents

The game is based off sm2ed with a movement phase, a shooting phase and an end phase.
[...]However, in the core rules only flyers have jink so far. No idea when jetbikes/land speeders are coming out for LI…

 

Interesting to see; quite like the idea of interleaved turns – offers a sort of halfway house between alternating activation and UGOIGO. Sounds plausible against the idea that these games are going to be much bigger than E:A; because the approach will be faster to resolve and ameliorate activation advantage.

 

 

+ Space Marines +

 

Quote

Thousand Sons: Kine Shields: Thousand Sons models with the Commander special rule gain the Shield Generator (6+) special rule.

White Scars Legion rule makes jink saves better for units that have jink.

Dark Angels: [snip] Formations of the Hexagrammaton: At the start of the battle, before any Detachment is deployed, determine which Dark Angels Formations contain a total of three or more different Detachment types [snip]
All Detachments within the Formation that contain only Dark Angels Infantry models gain the Phosphex and Implacable special rules.
All Detachments within the Formation that contain only Cavalry models gain the Outflank special rule.
All Detachments within the Formation that contain only Vehicle models gain the Nimble special rule.
If a Formation has a Dedicated Transport, the model types gain the relevant special rules but the Transports do not.
[snip]

 

Alpha Legion: Mutable Tactics: For each Formation in an Army made up entirely of Alpha Legion Detachments (ignoring Allied Contingents) the controlling player may select up to 3 Alpha Legion Detachments in the Army to be affected by Mutable Tactics. For each Allied Contingent in an Army made up entirely of Alpha Legion Detachments, the controlling player may select up to 1 Alpha Legion Detachment to be affected by Mutable Tactics. Detachments with the Flyer special rule cannot be chosen.

A Detachment chosen to be affected by Mutable Tactics gains a special rule dependent on the Detachment Type. If a selected Detachment is made up of Infantry, Cavalry, Walker or Vehicle models, all models within it gain either the Infiltrate, Outflank or Forward Deployment special rule – this is chosen by the controlling player and different Detachments can choose different rules. If the selected Detachment is of another type, it gains the Forward Deployment rule.

Ultramarines: Interlocking Tactics: An Ultramarines model may re-roll any Hit rolls of a 1 when firing upon an enemy Detachment that has already had one or more Hits scored against it this round by an Ultramarines model from the same Formation as the firing model.

Emperor’s Children: Exemplars of War: Once per battle, an Army that includes at least one Formation consisting entirely of Emperor's Children models (ignoring models within an Allied Contingent) may choose to win Initiative instead of rolling. They must declare they are doing this before rolling. If both players have this rule, the player who did not have Initiative last round chooses if they use the rule first – if they do so, no other player can use it this round.

If an Army includes at least one Allied Contingent comprised entirely of Emperor's Children Detachments then once per battle the controlling player may re-roll the dice roll for Initiative instead. They can only do this if at least one Emperor's Children Detachment is on the battlefield or in Reserve; if all have been destroyed or left the battlefield due to other special rules, this rule has no effect.

World Eaters: Incarnate Violence: Whenever they make a Fight Roll, all World Eaters Infantry, Cavalry and Walker models can re-roll a single D6 when making Fight rolls.

Word Bearers: True Believers: Detachments within a Word Bearers Formation never count as Broken for the purposes of being issued an Order, i.e., they can be issued any Order they normally could instead of just the Advance Order or March Order. In addition, all Word Bearers Detachments ignore the effects of the Dread Aura (X) special rule.

Death Guard: Sons of Barbarus: Death Guard Detachments do not suffer Hits for moving through Dangerous terrain. In addition, at the start of the battle, before any Detachments are deployed, a player may pick up to two areas of terrain if their Army contains at least one Death Guard Formation. For the remainder of the battle, these areas count as Dangerous terrain, in addition to any other rules that apply.
Two Structures can be selected in place of a single area of terrain. Each time a model Garrisons or leaves a Structure designated as Dangerous terrain, it counts as having moved 1" through it.

Iron Warriors: The Bitter End: When determining which player controls a neutral Objective marker, Iron Warriors Infantry and Walker models count their Tactical Strength as 1 higher than normal. In addition, when determining who controls an Objective marker in a deployment zone, Iron Warriors Infantry and Walker models count their Tactical Strength as 2 higher than normal if within their own deployment zone.
[snip]

Salamanders: Strength of Will: When making a Morale check, a Detachment that contains only Salamanders models rolls two D6 and chooses which result they prefer. In addition, all Salamanders Detachments in the Army gain the Implacable special rule

 

These seem plausible, from what little we know. Most are fairly simple, with the longer ones usually revolving around clarifying specifics (e.g. Dark Angels) or resolved pre-battle (e.g. Alpha Legion).

 

Specifics to keep an eye out for in rules previews to help add evidence for being legit:

• Units taking hits for moving through Dangerous Terrain and existence of Dangerous Terrain in rules terms (mentioned in Death Guard's rules). 
• Existence of 'Structures' (mentioned in Death Guard's rules)
• 'Tactical Strength' in relation to Objectives (mentioned in Iron Warriors' rules)
• Army structure. A number of rules reference Army; implied to be made up of Formations; themselves made up of Detachments.
  • Reference also to 'Allied Contingents'
• Broken formations can normally only be issued Advance or March (specified in Word Bearer rules).

Interesting to see how these marry up to 32mm-scale Horus Heresy; the Ultramarines one jumped out as very similar, while the Salamanders one has (presumably) similar effects with unfamiliar mechanics.

 

+ Solar Auxila +

Quote

Solar Auxilia Army List The following section presents the Army List for the Solar Auxilia, reflecting the foundation upon which the various Solar Auxilia cohorts were based. Within you'll find all the rules needed to build a Solar Auxilia Army.

A Solar Auxilia force can include a maximum of 1 Legate Commander per full 1,500 points of the points limit (e.g., a 2,000 point Army can include a single Legate Commander, a 3,000 point Army can include 2 Legate Commanders, etc.).

Close Formation Fighting: The Solar Auxilia train to fight shoulder to shoulder, each warrior supporting those next to them to present an unyielding wall. A Solar Auxilia Infantry model increases its CAF by 1 while in base to base contact with one or more friendly Solar Auxilia Infantry models. If a Detachment is Garrisoned within a Structure, it is presumed to be in base contact with at least one other model from that Detachment.

Solar Auxilia Command Structure: Many Solar Auxilia Detachments have the Chain of Command special rule, which limits the Orders they can be issued with unless they are in range of a Detachment with the Solar Auxilia HQ (X) special rule. These rules can be found in the Special Rules section to the right.

Tank Commander: Certain Formations and/or Detachments allow a model to be upgraded to a Tank Commander – where applicable, this will be stated in the relevant description. A model upgraded to a Tank Commander gains the Solar Auxilia HQ (6") special rule and increases its Morale characteristic by 1, to a maximum of 2+.

Where possible, a model upgraded to a Tank Commander should be clearly visible – this can be done through having an officer in the cupola, a small banner, an alternative paint scheme or similar identifiable method.


Chain of Command: Detachments with the Chain of Command special rule can only be issued an Advance Order unless instructed otherwise. If an Independent Unit (see page 91) contains only models without this rule, then that Independent Unit can be issued another Order, even if the larger Detachment can only be issued with the Advance Order.

Solar Auxilia HQ (X): If a Detachment with the Chain of Command special rule has at least one model wholly within the Command Range of a model with the Solar Auxilia HQ (X) special rule, it can be issued with any Order it would be eligible to be issued (i.e., First Fire Order, Charge Order, March Order or Advance Order), instead of just an Advance Order. A model's ‘Command Range' is a number of inches equal to the value in brackets noted as part of this special rule. This special rule does not allow a Broken Detachment to be issued an Order other than the Advance Order or Charge Order.

 

Lots of inspiration from the Guard rules in SM2, if true. Rather like the sound of these, to be honest!

[FarvegNugan]

On 7/19/2023 at 5:11 AM, Marshal Rohr said:

The hidden half of that sheet might be a row or two of blast markers and it wouldnt be beyond the realm of possibility we get a plastic sprue of blast markers to buy separately but not in the initial box. They might be wary of needing lots of plastic tokens after the AT plastic set was hard to get outside of the Grandmaster set in some regions right after the AT launch. 

There will be no blast markers, the rumoured stat lines are likely true. Its an improved epic space marine. Which is good because thiigh space marine lasted nine years epic 40k was a flop till warlord games turned it almost word for word in to bolt action. 28 mm system deserves a 28mm game. 

 

        Whole battle groupd don't get pinned.elements do. They take casualties until they become combat Inneffective.kind of like epic space marine 2e. 

 

   It's why epic 40k and epic Armageddon are such a great 28mm game now.

[Sherrypie]

1 hour ago, FarvegNugan said:

There will be no blast markers, the rumoured stat lines are likely true. Its an improved epic space marine. Which is good because thiigh space marine lasted nine years epic 40k was a flop till warlord games turned it almost word for word in to bolt action. 28 mm system deserves a 28mm game. 

 

        Whole battle groupd don't get pinned.elements do. They take casualties until they become combat Inneffective.kind of like epic space marine 2e. 

 

   It's why epic 40k and epic Armageddon are such a great 28mm game now.

 

What is even going on in this post?

 

Epic 40k and Bolt Action have nothing to do with each other, play completely differently and Epic: Armageddon has been the most played Epic of them all for two decades now. Still going strong. The comparison to 28 mm games in completely nonsensical, as is the misunderstanding of how pinning works as elements getting pinned is precisely how it works. Formations degrade in their ability to fight by being pinned under an increasing amount of enemy fire, not simply because people die. The blast marker mechanic is one of the universally most praised innovations in games of that era.

 

[spessmarine]

Hm, appears it is safe to say Deathguard are the posterboys for LI. Interesting, not what I would've expected at first.

Just glad it isn't UM/IF/SoH.

 

I guess its a good scheme for the scale too, distinctive and not too complicated (coat bone or warm light-grey then dunk in grimy shade).

[RipOffProductions]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:10 AM, Burni said:

So a primarch is going to be roughly the height of a 40K grot at most and almost guaranteed to be resin. That seems too small for FW to sell separately. So how do you think they’ll do it? All the loyalists together? In ‘best bros’ packs (Fulgrim and Ferrus for example)?

I imagine that each Legion would get all their big named characters in one box, maybe with a few units of elites that fit in with them(especially for named characters who would likely be in a squad of elites rather then by themselves)

so say Death Guard get Mortarion, Typhon, and a few squads of Deathshround Terminators in their box.

Maybe their chaos versions in there too if they want to be generous/plan that far ahead.

[Doctor Perils]

6 hours ago, spessmarine said:

Hm, appears it is safe to say Deathguard are the posterboys for LI. Interesting, not what I would've expected at first.

Just glad it isn't UM/IF/SoH.

 

I guess its a good scheme for the scale too, distinctive and not too complicated (coat bone or warm light-grey then dunk in grimy shade).

The loyalist posterboys seem to be iron hands too, which makes sense since they're all about that armour

[Handsome Fred]

My contribution to Legions.
I remodelled the sentinel for standard scale.

Is a so cool design that is a shame it's locked to 8mm!

[BolterZorro]

35 minutes ago, Handsome Fred said:

Is a so cool design that is a shame it's locked to 8mm!

excep if you make it available online with an stl file....

[apologist]

 

 

For those interested in the change in model size, I mocked-up a comparison between the old and new Epic scales by more directly comparing tactical Marines from each generation. There's quite a jump! I'd estimate that the new models stand about 8mm to the eye and 9mm to the top of the backpack; rather than 6mm to the top of the backpack for the older ones.

 

 

It's worth noting that the old Epic plastic marines were small even for the period – their Chaos Marine equivalents were noticeably larger, for example, and the plastic scouts were huge.

 

Given the size of the game and tabletop distance, I don't think that older models – even if the difference in size is quite marked when compared directly – will look bad on the board. I'm looking forward to the new models, but if you want to stick with the old, I don't think it's going to look too weird. 

 

+++

 

... and on sizes, I thought I'd pop up some old pictures of Epic tanks, in case we get an equivalent shot for armour units. That way, I hope people can make a decision on whether to start looking second-hand, or wait for the new ones (or a combination of both!)

 

 

Clockwise from top left: Epic: Armageddon (E:A) era Land Raider; Epic: Space Marine (1st ed.) (SM1) era Rhino; Epic: 40,000 (E:40k) era Dreadnought; E:A era Rhino.

 

 

Clockwise from top left: E:40k era Hellhound; E:40k era Leman Russ; third party 'forumware' Leman Russ; E:40k era Leman Russ (again).

Edited July 21, 2023 by apologist

[BolterZorro]

1 hour ago, apologist said:

There's quite a jump! I'd estimate that the new models stand about 8mm to the eye and 9mm to the top of the backpack; rather than 6mm to the top of the backpack for the older ones.

I noticed that also. And it is huge: for infantry, it'd be ok because they are on a base of comparable size , but for tanks, it is not the same song. The size increase is around 50% making the new one way lareger than the older epic ones. Mixing them in a game will look weird.

[spessmarine]

On 7/21/2023 at 12:15 AM, Doctor Perils said:

The loyalist posterboys seem to be iron hands too, which makes sense since they're all about that armour

 

So it seems.

Would've thought one of the three legions with a primary black scheme would be a poor fit but they've gone with a pretty metallic black that reads well at the scale.