Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Valkyrion]

The contemptor weapons are also handed, so you can't run dual weapon types. 

[apologist]

 

 

Quick analysis of the sprue:

• Orange – Contemptor parts. I'm reading the two bits at the top left as the front of the waist, but unsure. The twin-lascannon is in two parts.
• Red – Missile launcher support squad: each marine in two parts (body and arm with gun). I'm fairly sure there are 6 missile launchers, but can only see 5 bodies – perhaps the sixth body (sergeant) is cropped at the bottom. 
• Yellow – Cataphractii Terminators. 6 of these.
• Blue – Plasma Gun support squad. Tentatively marked 5 of these, but the arrangement seems odd. Not beyond the bounds of reason (technical necessity/filling in available space).
• Green – Tactical Legionaries. 20 of these.
• Purple – Assault Legionaries. 5 of these.
• White – other/unclear. These are undoubtedly the Command squad and sergeants, but it's too unclear for my tired ol' occulobes to make them out with any certainty.
  • The white spot on the left-hand side, about halfway up, may be the sixth variant of the plasma gunners. Could be something to do with the Heavy Support, but looks to have a rifle of some sort.
  • There's a white spot at the upper right of the sprue, which could be something to do with the Contemptor.

 

+++

 

Other takeaways from this sprue pic (can you tell that I'm getting a bit over-enthusiastic about this game yet? :D) :

• Confirmation that there's no integrated round base insert on infantry.
• Single attachment point to the sprue is very welcome – means you'll be able to spray (even paint) on-sprue easily, as the only attachment point is hidden.
• Eight legs across two Contemptor Dreadnought bodies means lots of variety in posing – though only one of each gun (twin lascannon and assault cannon) on each sprue.

Edited July 24, 2023 by apologist

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

The contemptor weapons are also handed, so you can't run dual weapon types. 

And only one of each gun. Shame, the sprue could easily be 4 Contemptors with multiple weapons. Here's hoping for an uprade sprue, 'cause I suppose that there will be no separate dread release judging from the support box. Does it mean that the Sicarans are similarily locked to two distinct loadouts on one sprue?

 

[OpossumStrong]

I'm really excited about the rules preview, points cost/army fielding etc, i need to plan how much boxes do i need for a decent army, i expect the launch box will sell out fast, i wish it to be like indomitus, but i know it won't,as well as the support boxes, because with all the warehouse upgrade, and indomitus related production cuts, I'm afraid they wont have enough for everyone, and we could be stuck with "temporary out of stock" for quite some time.

[Rik Lightstar]

Weapon options on Contemptors are only likely to be a visual choice anyway, it's most likely that all Contemptors will have the save the same profile.

 

Rik

[apologist]

2 hours ago, Rik Lightstar said:

Weapon options on Contemptors are only likely to be a visual choice anyway, it's most likely that all Contemptors will have the save the same profile.

That’s a definite possibility, but given the SM2 inspiration, I’m leaning towards the weapons having some differentiation. It’s notable that you’ve got an anti-tank and anti-infantry option – and a similar distinction on the Predator and Leviathan.

 

I’m not really au fait with Sicaran and Deredeo loadouts, but they both have autocannon and plasma options – perhaps an indication that plasma (see also the infantry) will likewise have a specific role.

 

So could go either way, but all editions of Epic (even the super-abstract Epic: 40,000) have had at least some reflection of different weapons doing different things. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by apologist

[Marshal Rohr]

Don’t Knight Weapons have rules if you choose the melta over the Stubber?

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

2 hours ago, apologist said:

That’s a definite possibility, but given the SM2 inspiration, I’m leaning towards the weapons having some differentiation. It’s notable that you’ve got an anti-tank and anti-infantry option – and a similar distinction on the Predator and Leviathan.

 

*snip

 

I kind of hope that the only options given are either anti-infantry or anti-vehicle, no mushy middle, no does good against both etc. I think this would go a long way to eliminate weapon option bloat and keep the game pretty quick paced.  

[MithrilForge]

1 hour ago, Mechanicus Tech-Support said:

 

I kind of hope that the only options given are either anti-infantry or anti-vehicle, no mushy middle, no does good against both etc. I think this would go a long way to eliminate weapon option bloat and keep the game pretty quick paced.  

I gotta Agree with this, one of two options, that way GW sells more as well ... and no mushy middle  

 

I see the Thunderhawk stand is mostly the old one with a simple new bottom base (I haven't glued my base posts in on my Thunderhawk, just hope i don't have to buy another Thunderhawk just to get a base... ,hopefully they sell a box of new bases to convert your AI Flyers to Legions Imperialis status

 

M.   

[Petitioner's City]

2 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Don’t Knight Weapons have rules if you choose the melta over the Stubber?

 

A different game, Marshall - possibly there will be greater abstraction in this game?

[Splog]

The question we should all be asking is; when can we buy Thanatar Siege-Automata? 

[Redcomet]

12 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Don’t Knight Weapons have rules if you choose the melta over the Stubber?

In Titanicus. Thia game won’t have nearly as much granularity. 

[BolterZorro]

57 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

In Titanicus. Thia game won’t have nearly as much granularity

I hope that LI won't have too much granularity but above the big tanks there are knights and titans. We've seen tanks with several weapon options. I think that GW will differentiate those weapons on big guy.

For the "troops", my guess is that we just have a datasheet per unit and the weapons are just for visual, including the walkers like contemptors (for me, walkers, contemptors, heavy weapons infantry, etc... are just tokens of troops). Maybe for deredeo/leviathan and above, the weapons have a different datasheet. Who knows?

[Captain Idaho]

I suspect bolters and small arms will be rolled into CAF or firefight or some equivalent. Or a single profile, so a Tactical squad will get an AT- and AP6+ at range 30cm, in old rules style and transfered to whatever we have now.

 

Having weapons options isn't actually that big a deal when you consider most will just have small arms like last Epic. GW already said Kheres Assault Cannons on Contemptors and lascannons have different roles, so I reckon a melta gun vs heavy stubber could be a genuine weapon system on a Knight?

 

We don't know yet but I'd like to think there is space for some granularity. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[apologist]

One of the big complaints about SM2 was the fiddly granularity, which swung the other way into over-abstraction with E40k. The most recent version, Epic: Armageddon, found a happy medium; with small arms covering everything short of heavy weapons. The effects of bolters, lasguns and most special weapons etc. were folded into the unit's Firefight (FF) and Close Combat (CC) stats.

 

Heavy Weapons were individually named and distinguished by their own name, but there weren't any options. Imperial Space Marine infantry had missile launchers, for example, if they had a heavy weapon at all; Chaos Space Marines likewise had autocannons. 

 

Between the rumours and WarCom, my suspicion is that we're going to see something in the middle of SM2 and E:A; with individual weapon stats for things right down to plasma guns. The way GW will stop this becoming too fiddly is by restricting those to pre-set additions to formations.

 

To take this example:

 

 

This is a Tactical Legionary Formation made up of four Tactical stands and Centurion stand – I think these will have an abstract Small Arms weapon (the Command Stand perhaps having some particular weapon, but more likely an improved CAF value).

 

To this has been added:

• Missile Launcher Heavy Support squad: two stands, each with a reduced CAF and instead two Missile Launcher shots, which will have a range of 18in, and be slightly more effective against infantry, but still providing a potential threat to armoured targets. 
• Plasma Gun Support squad: two stands, each with two Plasma shots, which will be equally effective against infantry and armoured targets, but with a range of 6in. (This is based on the plasma guns from Imperial Guard Stormtroopers, the only E:A unit specifically with them).

 

 

 

Likewise this Solar Auxilia formation is four Auxiliary stands with small arms, and a Legate stand.

 

To this has been added:

A Veletaris Storm Section with power axes (two stands) that have no small arms and instead have a boosted CAF. 

Auxiliaries with flamers (two stands) with a 6in range weapon that Ignores Cover and has very good anti-infantry power, but no anti-tank ability at all. (Based on the E:A ork skorcha, which had a flamer-type weapon)

 

+++

 

Now, it may be that these are the only weapon options we ever see – it's notable that Space Marines have their iconic 'jack-of-all-trades, master of none' theme, while the Solar Auxilia are less flexible – but my gut feeling, based on the snippets we've had from WarCom, is that we'll see more. It's just a guess, ultimately, but here's my thoughts:

• GW have specifically called out the specific weapons for infantry and dreadnoughts
• They have laid heavy emphasis on being able to copy your full-scale army into Epic
• Weapon options allows for differentiation between Legions/Cohorts.
• Weapon options allow for more releases.

[apologist]

With some nice close-ups, we're able to estimate the actual size of the figures much more closely, by using the base as a measurement. This is confirmed as 25mm – though there's a little leeway in that: is 25mm the bottom or top of the bevelled base? For the images here, I've assumed the top.

 

 

 

 

Vehicles are a bit trickier to estimate, but if the 'quarter size' comment is literal, then we can say that both the Leman Russ and Predators are ~30mm long (as the full-size versions are 12cm). The old Epic ones were ~25mm, so there's a fairly substantial step up in size.

Edited July 25, 2023 by apologist

[Scribe]

I wont lie, I'm extremely impatient for this to come out and things to return to stock (Knights/Titans).

 

Do we have any idea/estimate on release?

[Lord Marshal]

14 minutes ago, Scribe said:

I wont lie, I'm extremely impatient for this to come out and things to return to stock (Knights/Titans).

 

Do we have any idea/estimate on release?

 

They've said August, but since it was only announced on July 1st I would assume towards the tail end of the month. 

 

Then again, it could be sooner if the big Tyranid wave is landing around that time instead, especially since other than the Cities of Sigmar Army Set and Knight Cerastus there's nothing really 'big' left to release.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Interrogator Stobz]

15 hours ago, Splog said:

The question we should all be asking is; when can we buy Thanatar Siege-Automata? 

Not to leave this hanging too long; if Mechanicus get hinted at soonish, I may abandon my First Legion plan and go full Mars worshipping.

Then my boy can get Auxillia and Iron Warriors and we'll have solid distinction between forces.

 

[Raziel-TX]

@Interrogator Stobz, report to Cell 42 concerning your heretical comments concerning abandoning the Dark Angel Legion 

[Interrogator Stobz]

I'll bring the Scones, you bring the Tea Brother.

[Raziel-TX]

Deal-hope you like good ole Southern tea. The kind that gives you instant diabetes.  Haha

[FarvegNugan]

On 7/22/2023 at 2:45 PM, Raven1 said:

No blast markers? What about these?

 

  Those are blast templates for artillery guns. Blast markers are something from the bad versions of epic that don't work well at this scale but work great in bolt action. Order dice are great in bolt action as well. But epic 2e/gold are the best versions. Epic went 8 years before epic 40k killed the community.

[FarvegNugan]

On 7/20/2023 at 3:23 PM, Sherrypie said:

 

What is even going on in this post?

 

Epic 40k and Bolt Action have nothing to do with each other, play completely differently and Epic: Armageddon has been the most played Epic of them all for two decades now. Still going strong. The comparison to 28 mm games in completely nonsensical, as is the misunderstanding of how pinning works as elements getting pinned is precisely how it works. Formations degrade in their ability to fight by being pinned under an increasing amount of enemy fire, not simply because people die. The blast marker mechanic is one of the universally most praised innovations in games of that era.

 

 

     Blast markers made no sense in the scale. They are great in BA which is 28mmised Epic Armageddon. Same person wrote both games. In 28mm units can be pinned and degraded that way easier.

 

     Also it wasn't universally loved .epic 40k and epic Armageddon never had even close to the following of epic 2e. It's why they only thing they are keeping is formations. 

 

  Only good part.

 

 

 

[BolterZorro]

On a side note: I hope that we see a plastic kit with armingers like we just saw the dire wolf kit reveal. It'd be a great addition to both games AT & LI.