Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Imprudent Decision]

I think expecting titan only lists was a bit optimistic for some folks.  Knights however seem like they should work, if there are full companies if tanks/super heavies.  In older versions knights were largely Leman russ tank equivalents with a melee option, but since then they have become more powerful, so deferring having them as a full list is not too off, if a bit disappointing. 

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not sure how involved the Titan rules will be mind. They'll have weapon rules similar to other units (arcs attached to the weapon I imagine) but aside from that they likely will just have a "can fire all weapons and have 7 hitpoints" plus a keyword or 2.

[DuskRaider]

38 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I'm not sure how involved the Titan rules will be mind. They'll have weapon rules similar to other units (arcs attached to the weapon I imagine) but aside from that they likely will just have a "can fire all weapons and have 7 hitpoints" plus a keyword or 2.

Yeah, it seems like they will be dumbed down quite a bit compared to their Titanicus counterparts, but that’s kind of expected. It’s one thing managing 5 or so Titans in Titanicus, imagine doing that PLUS all of the Legion / Army pieces as well. 
 

I do think that Tank Battalions may work in Titanicus to an extent and perhaps someone will come up with homebrew rules (who am I kidding, it’ll definitely happen), but I can’t imagine they’d survive very long. They have no void shields and on average are weaker than Knights. 
 

Still, it would be cool to see dozens upon dozens of Tanks take the field against a Maniple proper or full Knight House and the mayhem that would ensue. They would probably fair better on a dense board and if they were given rules that were more fast and loose it could be somewhat effective, even if they would disappear if a Titan sneezes in their direction. 

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, Imprudent Decision said:

I think expecting titan only lists was a bit optimistic for some folks.  Knights however seem like they should work, if there are full companies if tanks/super heavies.  In older versions knights were largely Leman russ tank equivalents with a melee option, but since then they have become more powerful, so deferring having them as a full list is not too off, if a bit disappointing. 

 

Yes, my main interest in having a 'Core' knights list was that it gets me to 'game ready' quicker - With the knights I already own for AT (some of them even painted) if they were supported I could 'core' them, add the units in the starter and be ready to try out proper sized games straight away. As it is with a bigger effort buy in (and therefore much longer to build and paint) that'll chip away at my enthusiasm as instead of 'just these and I'm ready' it'll be 'oh god all of these AND I need to buy some more of those!' and by the time my force is ready others (who already have more experience because they played Epic in the day and I didn't) may be past the initial burst of enthusiasm and fully up to speed when I blunder incompetently onto the scene. 

 

I can see why GW have done what they've done and it might be the right decision, but it doesn't work out well for me.

[Cactus]

@Cleon have you considered starting with smaller games and allowing that to build your enthusiasm for collecting and painting more non-knights?

[Cleon]

22 minutes ago, Cactus said:

@Cleon have you considered starting with smaller games and allowing that to build your enthusiasm for collecting and painting more non-knights?

That's certainly an option, but generally the point of games with smaller models is the bigger game, I doubt it'll work as well as a game experience smaller.

[Captain Idaho]

It's definitely imperfect and I would have thought it is an easy win to at least have Knight Household Core available as a faction from the off since there'd be a bunch of folk with existing Knights already.

 

I guess they had to start somewhere but I still feel like Knights, if not Titans due to balance, could have been a Primary Formation.

 

Still could and I hope so for my Knights peers here. Playing custom games with friends who let you use all Knights lists can only get you so far. 

[DuskRaider]

I’m really hoping and confident that Knight Houses will be a full faction at some point. FW no longer offers their resin models and I’m hoping it’s because they’re going plastic. It’s a pretty good possibility as well. 
 

If all else fails, we still have AT. I just hope GW continues to support the game outside of releasing models that are cross compatible / re-releases of resin models in plastic. 

[MegaVolt87]

70%/30% points split? So, 70% points titans, 30% knights to deal with infantry, rodger. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

It's only a Force Org Chart, if the rules work and are balanced by unit then ignoring the FOC won't be an issue for any and all social games.

 

Adherence to the FOC will probably infer rules bonuses, but going full Maniples is a bonus all of its own.

 

For you competitive types that's too bad... you'll have to comply 

[Interrogator Stobz]

37 minutes ago, MegaVolt87 said:

70%/30% points split? So, 70% points titans, 30% knights to deal with infantry, rodger. 

Knights for Infantry?

What are Belicosa Volcano Cannons for?

[Marshal Rohr]

8 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

It's only a Force Org Chart, if the rules work and are balanced by unit then ignoring the FOC won't be an issue for any and all social games.

 

Adherence to the FOC will probably infer rules bonuses, but going full Maniples is a bonus all of its own.

 

For you competitive types that's too bad... you'll have to comply 

I don’t think there will be a force organization chart beyond “your army must include X number of formations per 1,000 points” or something similar. That way you could roll a big formation for small games or multiple formations for larger games. 

[01RTB01]

17 hours ago, BeatTheBeat said:

As an aside, with Solar Auxilia sharing so much of the spotlight for LI, does anybody have knowledge on eventual plastics for them for 28mm Heresy? Would be amazing, they are daunting to start at the moment to say the least.

There's a "new" 28mm army coming as per the Warhammer Community roadmap. Safe bet would be solar auxilia especially as they're appearing in LI too.

 

It'd be nice for people that want to play a detachment of their epic force at 28mm. Much easier than the nutters replicating their titanicus maniples in 28mm lol. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

14 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I don’t think there will be a force organization chart beyond “your army must include X number of formations per 1,000 points” or something similar. That way you could roll a big formation for small games or multiple formations for larger games. 

Me too, 'scuse the phrasing. 

[jaxom]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:23 AM, BolterZorro said:

First (little) disapointment: the rigid formation which doesn't help much to make thematic armies.

I reserve judgement until we see more of the other formations they mentioned.

On 7/31/2023 at 8:34 AM, Noserenda said:

Hmmm no Titan or Knight armies and a return to the days of marauding bike gangs tearing titans to bits, not ideal, in fact regressing to individual fights in melee sounds bloody awful in general, its as extremely slow system that does not scale, even a stripped down version like this is bad in a massed battle game, which is why they dropped it originally! 

Looks like firefights are gone too which is a shame, granularity of small arms on this scale feels like a further waste of brain space.

 

 

Regarding Titans and Knights:

Previous people's comments

(EDIT: my comment got stuck in the spoiler and I can't select it when I tried to edit.)

 

On 7/31/2023 at 9:02 AM, Xanthous said:

Maybe the restriction on titan and knight points is to prevent particularly bad skew? I can't imagine going up against 3000 pts of titans with anything other than your own legio would be particularly fun.

 

On 7/31/2023 at 9:12 AM, DuskRaider said:

Yeah, I’m a bit miffed about this. I have a bad feeling Titans are going to be nerfed into the ground and any Titan v Titan battling or even against tank columns is going to be unrealistic and over very quickly. 

 

On 7/31/2023 at 6:51 PM, Mumeishi said:

I see what GW's doing (understandable) they know there are heaps of people with AT Models but simply letting you plonk all your titans down and playing LI doesn't help GW's profit margin, hence why you have (for now) a limited amount of Titans in your army pool... they want you to buy little tanks and army men...they already sold you the titans...you have to buy more stuff now . 

 

20 hours ago, DuskRaider said:

Yeah, it seems like they will be dumbed down quite a bit compared to their Titanicus counterparts, but that’s kind of expected. It’s one thing managing 5 or so Titans in Titanicus, imagine doing that PLUS all of the Legion / Army pieces as well. 

 

19 hours ago, Cleon said:

 

Yes, my main interest in having a 'Core' knights list was that it gets me to 'game ready' quicker - With the knights I already own for AT (some of them even painted) if they were supported I could 'core' them, add the units in the starter and be ready to try out proper sized games straight away. As it is with a bigger effort buy in (and therefore much longer to build and paint) that'll chip away at my enthusiasm as instead of 'just these and I'm ready' it'll be 'oh god all of these AND I need to buy some more of those!' and by the time my force is ready others (who already have more experience because they played Epic in the day and I didn't) may be past the initial burst of enthusiasm and fully up to speed when I blunder incompetently onto the scene. 

 

I can see why GW have done what they've done and it might be the right decision, but it doesn't work out well for me.

I think it's actually a strength that the designers are sticking to a singular design vision. 

"General’s Eye View
On the battlefield, Detachments – equivalent to the individual ‘units’ in other Warhammer games – operate according to the Orders assigned to them each round. Orders are initially hidden when issued, meaning you’ll have to predict what your opponent’s plan is and devise your own strategy to counter."

"Combined Arms
Strategic decisions begin before the battle – the army you field is just as important. Infantry are the best for capturing Objectives while vehicles and super-heavies are hardier and deadlier. Each Detachment has its role and it’s up to you to utilise them in the best possible way."

"Legions Imperialis is designed to represent a massive combined arms battle on all fronts, and its rules for aircraft and Titans are more streamlined."

"Adeptus Titanicus is a detailed game of Titan control, in which players have to carefully pilot their God Machines and balance limited resources with risks. Legions Imperialis is about grand strategy. You are playing a distant commander, directing huge armies. Titans are powerful assets, but the nuances of engine reactor control and shield maintenance are left up to others – you have a war to win!"

"You’ll get the best experience with vast armies, where the actions of one squad, tank, or even a Titan, are just cogs in a vast strategic picture. In most games you’d ideally be looking for 100+ playing pieces on the table."

"Most bigger armies in Legions Imperialis, will have elements from multiple factions: Space Marines, Solar Auxillia, Titans, Knights, aircraft and more, representing the combined-arms might of the Traitor or Loyalist warmachine."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by jaxom

[Lord Marshal]

A closer look at Legiones Astartes faction. The Legion-specific rules seem to align with those leaks. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[LSM]

Bit of an oof at all those weapon profiles.

I think it would have been better if there were, like, two choices for the main gun (Battle Cannon or Melta Blastgun) and then "secondary weapons" with a single profile and different gun options just gave you different keywords (2 Sponson Heavy Bolters = Point Defense, 2 Sponson Lascannons = Anti-Tank; 2 Hull Heavy Bolters = Accurate, 2 Hull Autocannons = Light AT).

[Matcap86]

Huh, thing I picked up here is that the Kratos is described as one of the heaviest tanks the marines can bring to bear. One could read that as no superheavies at launch. 

[VanDutch]

The way I’m reading the Terminator Detachment is that you wouldn’t be able to run one with the core box alone, because four ‘models’ are required and only two are included in the box. Right?

Edited August 2, 2023 by VanDutch

[Matrindur]

Since the leaks are now basically confirmed I'll post the links again for everyone:

Statlines
https://pastebin.com/GJfHMNzY

Subfaction rules
https://pastebin.com/BbJzuE06

And this bit thats missing from the pastebin

 

Quote

>Inviolate Armour: Iron Hands models with the Feel No Pain special rule benefit from its effects when they suffer a Wound from a weapon with the Light or Light AT trait, instead of just the Light trait. In addition, any Hits scored against an Iron Hands Vehicle or Super-heavy Vehicle issued with a First Fire Order worsen their AP by 1, to a minimum of 0, e.g., a weapon with an AP of -2 would become -1.

>The First Fire Order must still be in effect (i.e., it cannot have Overwatched or fired yet this round) for this rule to take effect. This does not affect the AP if Hits are allocated to Void Shields

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

Huh, thing I picked up here is that the Kratos is described as one of the heaviest tanks the marines can bring to bear. One could read that as no superheavies at launch. 

According to the leaked statlines yes, no superheavies for SM at launch

 

2 minutes ago, VanDutch said:

The way I’m reading the Terminator Detachment is that you wouldn’t be able to run one with the core box alone, because four ‘models’ are required only two are included in the box. Right?

Again according to the leaked statlines thats not a problem for the Terminators and Assault Squad as they can be taken as +2 for Tactical Squads but the Plasma/Missile squads are only available on their own as 4 so for those thats true

Edited August 2, 2023 by Matrindur

[DuskRaider]

So is that 1 wound for a block of 4 Terminators or 1 wound for each of the 4? I’m a little confused here… 

[Lord Marshal]

3 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

So is that 1 wound for a block of 4 Terminators or 1 wound for each of the 4? I’m a little confused here… 

 

One wound per base, I assume.

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

Yeah, the writing was really confusing. Is it a max of 8 bases of 5 or just 8 terminators? 

[Doobles57]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Yeah, the writing was really confusing. Is it a max of 8 bases of 5 or just 8 terminators? 

It's not well written. But it's got to be 8 bases of 5. Otherwise the max unit size would be 1 base of 5 models and 1 base of 3. Which makes zero sense.

[Guest]

The way I read it for the Kratos 

 

2 Kratos is 150pts - increase to 6 is another 200pts so you get a discount on having 4 more from 75pts to 50 pts a tank.

 

But I do feel this is over confusing and I can't think of a reason why,