Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Matcap86]

 

32 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I was committed but their delay without a word has put me off. I'm not giving them my money now, instead enjoying the 3D printers my friends have.

 

GW could have avoided such behaviour had they been more open to their customer base. There's usually some "whales" who'll burn cash at everything GW says... but nah they've turned me off.

 

Sure, I'm not everyone. But if I feels this way, likely others do too.

 

That feels harsh? The delay is 2-3 months at most if their statement of "later this year" is to believed. As someone who also enjoys the occasional videogame; which get delayed all the time, I'm not too fussed. Well I am, because I'm really still amped. But not to the point of giving up on it entirely. Still have a giant backlog to work through anyway.

[Noserenda]

I could see where the Cap is coming from, its not like a video game delay where they give you an indication, its just been "soon" for months which could certainly grind some gears, and its not like Epic isnt a cottage industry on its own, you can buy or print all sorts of things in metal and resin right now if you want to crack on.

I still think they should have kept releasing models even if the rules were delayed, they are ultimately a toy soldier company first and a games company second. Half the things they previewed about army construction our group is already planning to toss out anyway :D 

It still feels like an imminent release actually, even if my head says November at the earliest.

[Captain Idaho]

It's only harsh if I'm being unreasonable. I'm not giving them my money, sure other people can and I hope LI succeeds of course, but I have kids and a job etc.

 

Basically I'm not at GW's beck and call.

[Matcap86]

Well they used sooner than you think and they also used that with the mk3 boxset so... next week? /copingmode

 

Realistically we'll probably get cities of sigmar first.

 

12 hours ago, Noserenda said:

I could see where the Cap is coming from, its not like a video game delay where they give you an indication, its just been "soon" for months

 

TBF there's plenty of studios who go: "it's now winter next year". Not too dissimilar to what GW did here. It's become more common with all the supply lines still being wonky.

 

12 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

It's only harsh if I'm being unreasonable. I'm not giving them my money, sure other people can and I hope LI succeeds of course, but I have kids and a job etc.

 

Basically I'm not at GW's beck and call.

 

I mean you're calling people still excited for the release and willing to give GW money for it whales. Because they didn't get upset over a 3 month delay. That seems harsh.

 

I also have responsibilities in my daily life and GWs release schedule plays no role in them.

Edited October 9, 2023 by matcap86

[Noserenda]

8 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

 

TBF there's plenty of studios who go: "it's now winter next year". Not too dissimilar to what GW did here.

They always used to have exact dates when i was that interested in them, but i guess at least "winter next year" narrows to down to a couple of months relatively far away, and leaves the door open to a more precise date in the meantime, "soon" helps noone, is that next week? Is it this year? I could see that being anxious if someone is more invested or has to plan their spends carefully. 

Sooner than you think is geometrically worse of course :D 

[Matcap86]

3 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

They always used to have exact dates when i was that interested in them, but i guess at least "winter next year" narrows to down to a couple of months relatively far away, and leaves the door open to a more precise date in the meantime, "soon" helps noone, is that next week? Is it this year? I could see that being anxious if someone is more invested or has to plan their spends carefully. 

Sooner than you think is geometrically worse of course :D 

 

Oh yeah the *soon* every week gets annoying

[DuskRaider]

The delay is certainly annoying, but to be honest my interest in the IP in general has waned over the past few years. I also have other hobbies, some of which take up much more time and money than GW. I’m content with waiting to a point and I went out and picked up Aeronautica models for this reason, but once I’m done with them I don’t know if I’ll still feel as enthusiastic about LI as I currently am. 

[Doghouse]

To be honest they've already adopted the subscriptions, seasons and day one patches of online gaming I'm not surprised they are adopting their delayed/pushed back release schedules! 

 

I think it's a combination of the hype train going way too fast and being in danger of coming off the tracks, the release backlog that goes back to the delay in HH2 behind the scenes and all the supply/warehouse issues messing with their internal road map for releases which I think has been a long time in the making. 

 

Don't get me wrong I am not defending them or trying to offer them an out as this is all ultimately of their own making but I can see why this is now happening with releases.  I was really looking forward to stomping on infantry with my titans but for me the LI hype train has left the station sadly.

[MithrilForge]

I think where GW fails here is simply with Transparency.... If they had the stones to say "Hey, we're sorry but this LI release has had to have  a 3 month delay because of this this and that"... then I'd accept that and plan my hobby accordingly the "sooner than you think" is actually insulting and makes me feel that I (the consumer) is a very low priority on their agenda.... 

 

M 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Mumeishi

[vadersson]

I agree with you all that soon is a horrible word that GW needs to drop.  On the other had those saying you wish they had given a new date should remember they said yet this year.  Change that to within the next 3-4 months and does that work better?  Would it have been better for them to just say something dec 18th even if there was a chance they could be ready in October or November?  I guess a lot is perception and then followed up with “soon”.  Either way until I hear otherwise I will assume it will be before Dec 31st.  ;)

 

[Irongert]

4 hours ago, vadersson said:

I agree with you all that soon is a horrible word that GW needs to drop.  On the other had those saying you wish they had given a new date should remember they said yet this year.  Change that to within the next 3-4 months and does that work better?  Would it have been better for them to just say something dec 18th even if there was a chance they could be ready in October or November?  I guess a lot is perception and then followed up with “soon”.  Either way until I hear otherwise I will assume it will be before Dec 31st.  ;)

 

 

Personanly I would have preferred they gave a solid date that's a bit further out such as december 18th. Even if it technically would be possible to send it out sooner. I know it's my personal fault ofcourse but I don't play very well with vague dates. Soon, somewhere in the coming months, this year when there's still several months to go, are all terms that mean bugger all to my planning. Unlike what GW thinks evidently, my income is finite and if I can't properly plan for something, I won't plan for it at all. So for me at this point it doesn't matter if it's released "sooner than I think", the funds that would go to Epic have been allocated to other hobby projects that I also have and I could rely on to be able to buy. 

 

Again, I am fully aware it's my shortcoming in the way I plan. Not taking into account vague time frames other than in a "That's cute, I'll look at it someday when it's released. Next year, if they have anything in stock, which nowadays is increasingly unlikely. If not, many other games to play." 

[Burni]

I knew I'd seen something about unit cards so went back and found this: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/02/legions-imperialis-a-closer-look-at-the-legiones-astartes/ Seems similar to AI in that you can just use the main book and cards. I imagine like AI had the Imp Navy and Guard card sets, there'll be multiple boxes - one with each expansion probably so still fits everybody's DLC analogy but at least you might not have to lug multiple hardback books around (and the cards will probably be cheaper than the books).

 

Edit: It also occurs to me that this week's Heresy Thursday LI reveal is almost certainly the expansion book. Seems like the WD article has forced their reveal hand a bit. Hopefully the cover art of the book reveals some more forthcoming models.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Burni

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Irongert said:

 

Personanly I would have preferred they gave a solid date that's a bit further out such as december 18th. Even if it technically would be possible to send it out sooner. I know it's my personal fault ofcourse but I don't play very well with vague dates. Soon, somewhere in the coming months, this year when there's still several months to go, are all terms that mean bugger all to my planning. Unlike what GW thinks evidently, my income is finite and if I can't properly plan for something, I won't plan for it at all. So for me at this point it doesn't matter if it's released "sooner than I think", the funds that would go to Epic have been allocated to other hobby projects that I also have and I could rely on to be able to buy. 

 

Again, I am fully aware it's my shortcoming in the way I plan. Not taking into account vague time frames other than in a "That's cute, I'll look at it someday when it's released. Next year, if they have anything in stock, which nowadays is increasingly unlikely. If not, many other games to play." 

I wasn't going to reply but chose to just to say that isn't your poor planning at all. Why should you indefinitely horde your leisure spending, for an unknown date and unknown amount?

[Stitch5000]

14 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

I was committed but their delay without a word has put me off. I'm not giving them my money now, instead enjoying the 3D printers my friends have.

 

GW could have avoided such behaviour had they been more open to their customer base. There's usually some "whales" who'll burn cash at everything GW says... but nah they've turned me off.

 

Sure, I'm not everyone. But if I feels this way, likely others do too.

It's been delayed a bit, I'll pay for out of the next paycheck rather than the last. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by Stitch5000

[Captain Idaho]

16 hours ago, matcap86 said:

I mean you're calling people still excited for the release and willing to give GW money for it whales. Because they didn't get upset over a 3 month delay. That seems harsh.

 

I also have responsibilities in my daily life and GWs release schedule plays no role in them.

 

No I'm not. I never once called people excited for anything "the whales" I was referring to. What you've done there is taken a portion of what I said and assumed it is a binary thing therefore must people applicable to entirety - "you're either a whale for GW or like me".

 

To clarify, which shouldn't be needed but in a social media age people appear to require it more than ever...

 

GW has Whales they take advantage of. GW runs a business model that doesn't appreciate those of us who might not be. I'm not paying GW bills when I've been offered free models for fun from friends. I'm still someone who appreciates their specialist games. 

 

I very much doubt my opinion will bankrupt them, but if I feel this way, others will do as well.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Captain Idaho

[phandaal]

17 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

Basically I'm not at GW's beck and call.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said:

I very much doubt my opinion will bankrupt them, but if I feel this way, others will do as well.

 

These two statements sum up how I feel about a lot of GW's release schedules these days. Their FOMO hype train mystery approach seems to work for a lot of people, but for me it just falls flat. It is not up to me to punish or uplift Games Workshop, so I just kind of disregard it after a while.

[Matcap86]

56 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

No I'm not. I never once called people excited for anything "the whales" I was referring to. What you've done there is taken a portion of what I said and assumed it is a binary thing therefore must people applicable to entirety - "you're either a whale for GW or like me".

 

To clarify, which shouldn't be needed but in a social media age people appear to require it more than ever...

 

GW has Whales they take advantage of. GW runs a business model that doesn't appreciate those of us who might not be. I'm not paying GW bills when I've been offered free models for fun from friends. I'm still someone who appreciates their specialist games. 

 

I very much doubt my opinion will bankrupt them, but if I feel this way, others will do as well.

 

Ironically you're applying the binary assumption to misrepresent my point:

I never said you called everyone who enjoys LI in the future a whale, but with "There's usually some "whales" who'll burn cash at everything GW says... but nah they've turned me off."  and "GW has Whales they take advantage of. GW runs a business model that doesn't appreciate those of us who might not be."

 You're at the very least comparing yourself to people who are less critical of GW's actions? Otherwise why even mention the fact that there are "Whales" among GW consumers at all. 

 

I just think that the term whale gets dropped way to easy towards people with different spending habits. Often to position one's own actions as more rational. Are there people with a problematic relation towards consuming GW products? Sure. But there's also plenty of people who are just excited about the product and do not mind a bit of a wait and just put the money they'd spend on it aside until release.

 

The game had a delay for whatever reason, and GW's bad at communicating. No predatory "whale hunting" business practices there imho. 

 

As an aside: I'm also amazed at the 180 you've seemed to have had on LI: at the start of this topic you seemed like one of the most eager and excited fraters on the topic. But now apparently because of a 3 months-ish delay (and obnoxious communication about it) you're no longer interested and off to greener pastures, even though both the game and minis haven't changed with the delay. I can understand being annoyed at the glib communication but, for me at least, that doesn't have all that much to do with the eventual product I'm paying for.  

[Matcap86]

11 minutes ago, phandaal said:

These two statements sum up how I feel about a lot of GW's release schedules these days. Their FOMO hype train mystery approach seems to work for a lot of people, but for me it just falls flat. It is not up to me to punish or uplift Games Workshop, so I just kind of disregard it after a while.

 

It's GW's own incapability of producing enough product that's made me tune out. Hypetrain is well and good, but there needs to be a station at the end of that track and not a roadblock otherwise it's just a big old crash. 

 

[Captain Idaho]

47 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

As an aside: I'm also amazed at the 180 you've seemed to have had on LI: at the start of this topic you seemed like one of the most eager and excited fraters on the topic. But now apparently because of a 3 months-ish delay (and obnoxious communication about it) you're no longer interested and off to greener pastures, even though both the game and minis haven't changed with the delay. I can understand being annoyed at the glib communication but, for me at least, that doesn't have all that much to do with the eventual product I'm paying for.  

 

I work for a living. When a company doesn't treat me how I want to be treated, I'm not wasting my time with them.

 

It's odd I even have to justify that to be honest.

[Matcap86]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

I work for a living. When a company doesn't treat me how I want to be treated, I'm not wasting my time with them.

 

It's odd I even have to justify that to be honest.

 

Congratulations, I also have a job. Not sure how that's relevant.

 

You're not having to justify anything. I was just curious how you went from: "This will be amazing!" to "I'm not even going to bother with this". In the span of two months, with no actual change to the product (that we know of). Not intended as an attack or slight or anything like that. 

[phandaal]

5 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

You're not having to justify anything. I was just curious how you went from: "This will be amazing!" to "I'm not even going to bother with this". In the span of two months, with no actual change to the product (that we know of). Not intended as an attack or slight or anything like that. 

 

That is how I felt about 10th Edition. The more they showed, the less excited I became, and then the launch just killed it for me to the point where I have been playing model-agnostic games with my little dudes instead.

 

If you went back and looked at my comments around the time they started revealing things, it would be a very different picture than today. Definitely can happen.

[Nova-V]

It does seem odd a delay causing quite such a shift in perception of the product.  Is it disappointing? Yes of course.  You will get to spend your hard earned on it in the end.  I think the video game analogy is a good one, sometimes they can be delayed over a year with equally vague targets as GW has set for LI.  Usually it's to the benefit of the final product.  Whilst DLC means we are no longer beholden by Miyamoto's "a delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad" it is still true a good launch can make or break a game.  It could well be that the controversy of a delay to LI is far more preferable to GW than the controversy 9f whatever is causing the delay.

 

I've gone off LI due to the fact the game doesn't seem to be the game I was hoping it would be.  Battles look to be much smaller in scope than the teasers lead me believe.  That wasn't a function of the delay, it was clear from about mid way through the original marketing.

[Noserenda]

Its because GW's marketing is just... So out of step with half of us it drives us loopy, and the delays means months more marketing and no game to mollify us, so people get annoyed and lose interest.

And GW whales definitely exist, some of them are even deluded enough to boast about it on these forums :D But i had one when i ran an LGS who just ordered one of everything every month which was nice for me! 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

It's too short term. Even for gaming. At least with games I know months in advance whenabouts it will be released, ish. 

GW is 3 months 'ahead' at most, and even then something announced now, could be a week away, could be 3 months away, or even more with delayed items and some specialist games items. (The AT Direwolf and LI SM and Eldar releases spring to mind.)

 

[DuskRaider]

35 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

That is how I felt about 10th Edition. The more they showed, the less excited I became, and then the launch just killed it for me to the point where I have been playing model-agnostic games with my little dudes instead.

 

If you went back and looked at my comments around the time they started revealing things, it would be a very different picture than today. Definitely can happen.

Same here. I disliked the simplicity and shift towards a younger audience that GW took with the rules in 8th compared to those beforehand, but they kept me at least a bit interested with adding actual flavor to their codices and army variety. When they moved HH in the same direction, they lost me there and now 10th has completely turned me off from 40K so AT and this is all I have at the moment… and even then I can’t buy AT stuff because of the LI delay. It’s ridiculous.