Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[MithrilForge]

1 hour ago, Matrindur said:

Thats a lot of Drop Pods for only being 4 per box

 

Agreed, That's 4 boxes worth... and it's only the transports  if they come out at between $55.00 -$70.00 (Aust) a box then LI is going to be quite expensive at the levels this Bat rep is played at ...

 

fingers crossed though.... 

 

M. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mumeishi

[Pacific81]

My take-away: Quite interesting that the highly granular unit selection approach of Armageddon is used by the looks of things (where indicated tanks and units can be added rather than the basic, simple card format of 2nd)

 

Those armies are *big*, compared to previous versions. But, checking old WD mags the 'launch' battle report for 2nd was massive too; 6000pts Vs the standard 3/4000 game size. So hopefully it won't preclude smaller, less financially ruinous, games.

 

I don't recognise either developer from the community (which is not massive so you tend to get to recognise people if they are active), but I guess that doesn't mean anything and they could have been using pseudonyms.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Pacific81

[Bung]

I think for this report they played 3000 Points to show more stuff.

I expect a normal Game to be 2/3 of the size of the Battle Report (2000 Points).

[Matcap86]

Dang it. Hype is all the way back up for me. I love the look of these army compositions.

[Burni]

57 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

My take-away: Quite interesting that the highly granular unit selection approach of Armageddon is used by the looks of things (where indicated tanks and units can be added rather than the basic, simple card format of 2nd)

 

Those armies are *big*, compared to previous versions. But, checking old WD mags the 'launch' battle report for 2nd was massive too; 6000pts Vs the standard 3/4000 game size. So hopefully it won't preclude smaller, less financially ruinous, games.

 

I don't recognise either developer from the community (which is not massive so you tend to get to recognise people if they are active), but I guess that doesn't mean anything and they could have been using pseudonyms.

Tom was the dev who took over AT after James H left. I met him at the very first AT event at WHW just before the pandemic. Nice guy.

 

Wasn’t there an early article that said the average game size was going to be 3000pts and that the launch box was about half that? So this would be an average game. That’s a lot of drop pods though!! (And I love drop pods but was thinking 2 boxes, not 4!)

 

Definitely going to pick this WD up. Not bought a copy for years. 
 

Agree about having a colourful legion at this scale. Really makes them pop! Wish there was more info about SA regiments and their schemes.

[Petitioner's City]

2 minutes ago, Burni said:

Tom was the dev who took over AT after James H left. I met him at the very first AT event at WHW just before the pandemic. Nice guy.

 

Wasn’t there an early article that said the average game size was going to be 3000pts and that the launch box was about half that? So this would be an average game. That’s a lot of drop pods though!! (And I love drop pods but was thinking 2 boxes, not 4!)

 

Definitely going to pick this WD up. Not bought a copy for years. 
 

Agree about having a colourful legion at this scale. Really makes them pop! Wish there was more info about SA regiments and their schemes.

 

There's a great Voxcast with him too

 

 

 

 

[BolterZorro]

Those armies are nice but my wallet is a bit worried: let's focus on BA.

I see:

- 6 kratos 1 box

- 2*6 jetbikes : 2 boxes

- 12 terminators! only 2 in a starter box, maybe 4 in an infantry SM box?

- 11 sicarans, 2 in starter...

- 16 drop pods! (4 boxes)

- 11 predators / 3 in starter...

- 3 gryphons (1 box)

- 2 fire raptors (1 box)

 

I won't go deeper. But if this is the normal 3k points army, GW made it: LI is as expensive as 40k. We are speaking about at least 12 boxes, assuming that you bought at least 2 starters.

Side note: I am still hesitating between 2 or 3 starters for a start. What is anoying me is that there are 2 warhounds in the starter. (I already have 2 and plan to take the new 2 wolves box).

[Matrindur]

1 hour ago, Bung said:

I think for this report they played 3000 Points to show more stuff.

I expect a normal Game to be 2/3 of the size of the Battle Report (2000 Points).

I think they already said in an article that 3000pts is the standard battle. Doesn't mean you can't play with less but that's likely what the game is balanced around.

 

I tried adding up the costs of the two White Dwarf army lists for a rough estimation:

 

I'm guessing the boxes all have the same price as the aeronautica ones so £30.
For the launch box I'm guessing the Predators/Sicarans and the Malcadors/Leman Russes won't be in dual boxes but individual boxes instead with double the number of models. This way it would be 2 sprues per box which seems in line with Aeronautica. The SM infantry and the Contemptors are on the same sprue doubled up so likely to be the same number in their individual box. Guessing the same to be true for the SA infantry/sentinels/ogryns.

For the Blood Angels that would be:
2-3 boxes of Kratos depending if its true that there are 4 inside, I'll calculate with 4 per box here -- £60
2 boxes of Predators -- £60
3 boxes of Sicarans -- £90
1 box of Xiphons -- £30
2 boxes of SM fast attack -- £60
6 boxes of SM Infantry -- £180 (Mainly because the list has 12 Terminator stands and with the breakdown above there would only be 2 stands per infantry box. If there are double the miniatures inside this price halves)
4 boxes of Drop Pods -- £120
1 box of Fire Raptors -- £30
1 Reaver Titan -- £37.5

Sum -- £667.5

Opposing side:
3 boxes of SM Infantry -- £90 (Depending if those Tactical Detachments are only Tactical Squads or if there are also Missile/Plasma/Assault Marines in there this could be lower)
1 box of SM Support -- £30 (Dreads/Tarantulas/Rapiers)
1 box of Fire Raptors -- £30
1 box of Rhinos -- £30
1 box of Kratos -- £30
1 box of Sicaran -- £30
1 box of Storm Eagles -- £30
1 box of Xiphons -- £30
2 boxes of Predators -- £60
1 box of SA Infantry -- £30
1 box of Leman Russes -- £30
1 box of SA Support -- £30 (Rapiers)
1 Reaver Titan -- £37.5

Sum -- £487.5

The second list is cheaper as it took less models because multiple smaller units = less bulk discounts

I would guess on average around £500 for 3000pts as the above lists also have a few stands left over (For example Xiphons are 6 per box but both lists only used 3)

So pretty much in line with a 2000pts army in 40k or AoS

[BolterZorro]

11 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

the Predators/Sicarans and the Malcadors/Leman Russes won't be in dual boxes but individual boxes

I don't see them in individual box. IMHO, the starter gives us an insight of what it'll be: 2+3 in a sprue, 4+6 in a box. Those are the main "troop" tanks. 

A contrario, the kratos is only a pair of tanks in the promo image but the article says they come up to 6. It is not clear about the number of tanks in the box.

[Burni]

I agree with Matrindur's thinking. The way AI worked was you got one sprue of each aircraft type in the campaign box and then the individual boxes had two of those sprues. So I had 3 Dakkajets from the Wings of Vengeance box and then 6 more from the Dakkajet box. The sprue shots that were shown of LI show the Predators and Sicarans on separate sprues which would back up that thinking imho.

 

You're right about them saying Kratos are 6 to a box though, which makes the drop pods seem even worse value!

[BolterZorro]

Blood angel: 120 miniatures on the table! ouch !

On a table only 5'*4' which is not that big. 

120 is way bigger than the average 40k or AoS army (except horde builds which are more and more rare)

I hope that the game's mechanics are good enough to make the gameplay fluid and killer enough to halve to troops quickly.

[Matrindur]

8 minutes ago, Burni said:

You're right about them saying Kratos are 6 to a box though, which makes the drop pods seem even worse value!

They said 4 not 6 per box but that still sounds like a lot as they would have many parts so I'm not sure if that was a mistake and its just 2 per box. but for my calculation I used 4 per box so two boxes for the 6 Kratos in the Blood Angels list and 1 box for the 2x2 in the other list

[Burni]

4 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

They said 4 not 6 per box but that still sounds like a lot as they would have many parts so I'm not sure if that was a mistake and its just 2 per box. but for my calculation I used 4 per box so two boxes for the 6 Kratos in the Blood Angels list and 1 box for the 2x2 in the other list

Oh yeah its the unit size that's 6. Where did they say 4 per box? Socials?

[Matrindur]

11 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

Blood angel: 120 miniatures on the table! ouch !

On a table only 5'*4' which is not that big. 

120 is way bigger than the average 40k or AoS army (except horde builds which are more and more rare)

I hope that the game's mechanics are good enough to make the gameplay fluid and killer enough to halve to troops quickly.

Its really quite a lot especially if you look at the group shot shown in the WarCom article. That shot has all models on a 2x2 area based on the tiles with a few models not completely fitting on there and it also isn't all the models. I would say around a third of each side isn't in that shot so if everything would be grouped up like that, that would likely be an area of 2x3 at least. Of course the models shouldn't be grouped up like that in a real game so around half the board being full of models with normal distances between them sounds about right. 

 

4 minutes ago, Burni said:

Oh yeah its the unit size that's 6. Where did they say 4 per box? Socials?

 

Yes I think it was a Facebook comment but I can't find it anymore and even if it is still out there it wouldn't be the first time WarCom or their social team got something wrong

Edited October 13, 2023 by Matrindur

[BolterZorro]

HH sees the daemons army rules and points this week. Let's hope in a not too far future a LI deamon army 

 

[Interrogator Stobz]

That would be awesome !

 

But you're dreamin'.

[Pacific81]

I commented on this on another forum, but with respect GW won't get to decide how big a 'standard' game is. That will be decided when the first LI tournaments start, and people start playing and work out what they can play in an evening - which has always been (and this includes any wargame, not just GW) the standard definition.

 

If it takes 3-4 hours to play one 3000pt game, then that's too long for a tournament as those generally subsist on 3+ games per day. It is also too long for an evening's play, for those of us who work regular hours, come home and have a meal before playing etc - so regardless of what GW state, because they are trying to sell more kits, the community will reach its own equilibrium on 'standard'.

[SkimaskMohawk]

As long speculated, the price point looks rather punishing to build out a force, especially one supported by transports. Infantry and things like rhinos are just so cheap from the leaked rules, and they don't exactly scale to a giant amount of points (unlike what you can do in 30k). A maxed lasrifle tercio is 120 for 16 bases, 12 of which are ogryns. That's nothing.  

 

 

 

[Matrindur]

More from White Dwarf

Edited October 13, 2023 by Matrindur

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

3 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

That would be awesome !

 

But you're dreamin'.

It would have been more believable, if Todd Howard said it:

 

"Legion Imperialis now featuring tiny daemons with SIXTEEN times the detail!"

 

Music playing in the background: -Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies."-

[vadersson]

Wow, that seems like an awfully open battlefield.  But then I like a good ranged fight.  Thanks for the posts!

[jaxom]

4 hours ago, Matrindur said:

I would guess on average around £500 for 3000pts as the above lists also have a few stands left over (For example Xiphons are 6 per box but both lists only used 3)

So pretty much in line with a 2000pts army in 40k or AoS

Ooph, that probably prices me out for moment. It doesn't help that I'm trying to par down the grey pile of shame while the new HH box release is singing its siren song (and Star Wars: Legion is picking up steam locally so that may another new thing). 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

2 minutes ago, vadersson said:

Wow, that seems like an awfully open battlefield.  But then I like a good ranged fight.  Thanks for the posts!

Epic battles tend to be very open as you need room to maneuver tank and bike companies. Infantry needs to get into forests or building in the first two turns via rhinos up the field in order to use their short-ranged bolters or they die horribly in the open. So you won´t see L-shaped LOS blockers like in 40K.

[Marshal Rohr]

I might have a problem, because my first thought was “why are they playing a skirmish?” 
 

 

 

Hype is definitely back. 

[Pacific81]

17 minutes ago, vadersson said:

Wow, that seems like an awfully open battlefield.  But then I like a good ranged fight.  Thanks for the posts!

My impression from that shot is how everything is crammed into the board - but I guess that will happen if the board size is now smaller and more miniatures on the board. I think some of the respective range and movement distances have come down, so perhaps that is why.