Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Noserenda]

I was thinking it seemed a bit cramped myself if you can form a fairly coherent line across the whole table, i think youll want a 6x4 to have some flanks to manoeuvre on like prior editions. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Noserenda

[BolterZorro]

TBH, all those buildings on the borders of the table are totally useless in a gaming point of view. They are here for the balance of the picture. 

What a waste!
With a real game, all those buildings are to be ON the table, not on the borders. And then, the battle is more interesting.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

In regards to the battlefield:

 

Epic battles of the 90s had a good selection of skyscrapers, forests and hills so that combat took place at the outskirts of a city. I would encourage people to do the same. Modern GW wants to sell desperately terrain at the cost of the player meaning everything looks like Stalingrad 30K. Think about it: With hills your tanks have a superior LOS, artillery can hide behind it and forests are another opportunity to protect infantry.   

[BolterZorro]

1 minute ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

looks like Stalingrad 30K

We don't have to look back that far , even if Stalingrad  (now Volgograd) was one of the (if not THE) toughest city battle of WWII. 
Just watch TV with the sad battles just those days or ....today : in ukraine, you have battlefronts ni the open, in the countries, in moderns cities, in vilages in forests etc...

As a player of the GW Epic games when they released them, I agree with you: there were more various decors. GW encouraged us to create some hills around and in a city. Nowadays, you just see the promotion images of GW decors with an open table where the decors are....around the battlefield. Sad.

[Bung]

1 hour ago, BolterZorro said:

TBH, all those buildings on the borders of the table are totally useless in a gaming point of view. They are here for the balance of the picture. 

What a waste!
With a real game, all those buildings are to be ON the table, not on the borders. And then, the battle is more interesting.

 

You shouldnt take WD Battle Reports serious they are staged like Wrestling shows. They even play a battle a few times to get the desired results which is nothing new, they are doing that since forever.

 

As for the City buildings / GW Terrain i Rally prefer games in a dense City table you can find in the old Cityfight or Cities in Flames books from earlier editions and not the nearly empty tables you see in tourneys or YouTube Battle Reports.

[vadersson]

After reviewing the photos I noticed a few things.

 

1.  Deployments are by Formation.  For the Blood Angels with less formations were out of deployments before quite a few of the enemy.  
2.  Drop pods work out to +6 pts per drop pod.

3.  Rhinos were too hard to tell but look to be about 12 pts each, but I was unable to tell all the upgrades to the tactical squads.  Either way the cost for the command squad was very odd.

4.  Formations do not have any sort of coherence rules and the formations individual detachments can be spread around freely.

 

i will keep plumbing this and any additional data I can get for more info.  I really love the look of this game.

[SkimaskMohawk]

We know from the leaks that rhinos sit at 10 points and the legion command squads are 25. There might be an add on to either of those to make the EC command squad 4 points higher than it would be otherwise. 

 

 

[Pacific81]

2 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

In regards to the battlefield:

 

Epic battles of the 90s had a good selection of skyscrapers, forests and hills so that combat took place at the outskirts of a city. I would encourage people to do the same. Modern GW wants to sell desperately terrain at the cost of the player meaning everything looks like Stalingrad 30K. Think about it: With hills your tanks have a superior LOS, artillery can hide behind it and forests are another opportunity to protect infantry.   

 

Wish I could like this post more than once. I completely agree, the difference in visual appeal is subjective (although I definitely prefer it) but in terms of tactical options, giving the player more agency to use the terrain features, having a mix of terrain gives for a better game.

 

It's also one of the advantages of playing at that scale; you can have a mix of industrial zones, forests, city areas, rivers etc which are difficult to pull off effectively at 28mm scale.

[prava]

4 hours ago, vadersson said:

Wow, that seems like an awfully open battlefield.  But then I like a good ranged fight.  Thanks for the posts!

 Well, bolters are are 8" in range, so you gotta get close :)

 

---

 

Am I the only one that is more interested for the game system being different than what is usual in GW? In the sense that hidden order seem something unique for GWs standard.

[vadersson]

I know that now that I have played so many alternating activation type games (SW:Armada, SW:Legion, Bolt Action, even Kill Team 2018) I don’t know that I can even play base 40K anymore.  I like the hidden orders and alternating activations LI seems to be offering.  Add in the great scale range from Titans to foot infantry and they have me pretty hooked.

[Burni]

Yeah I’ve been playing AT and Warcry while waiting for LI as 10th ed 40K just hasn’t clicked for me and I have to say alt activation is great. Keeps me really engaged and I can recover from mistakes rather than half watching large chunks of my army being removed while my mind wanders.

 

And if you haven’t tried Warcry, go and do so right away - it’s amazing fun and cheap to play. 

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, vadersson said:

I know that now that I have played so many alternating activation type games (SW:Armada, SW:Legion, Bolt Action, even Kill Team 2018) I don’t know that I can even play base 40K anymore.  I like the hidden orders and alternating activations LI seems to be offering.  Add in the great scale range from Titans to foot infantry and they have me pretty hooked.

Agreed, games of armada and legion are generally close because of it.

 

I'd like to like 40k but it's proving hard. Bizarrely 30k still works.

 

That all said, I'll grab a core set of rules but to start with I'll be getting a friend to print an army. I'll then add/ replace with legit models over time.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, vadersson said:

I know that now that I have played so many alternating activation type games (SW:Armada, SW:Legion, Bolt Action, even Kill Team 2018) I don’t know that I can even play base 40K anymore.  I like the hidden orders and alternating activations LI seems to be offering.  Add in the great scale range from Titans to foot infantry and they have me pretty hooked.

 

Alternating activations feel so much better than "I Go You Go." It is not even comparable. So many of the issues with games feeling like a waste of time, or setting up your models only to pick them up before they even get used, or standing around for 40 minutes while your opponent rolls dice at you, all solved with alternating activations.

[Noserenda]

Both systems work perfectly well in the right places, alternating activations works fine to a point before it starts to grind, that said, despite ADHD the only time ive felt an opponents turn of anything grind is when it was a slow playing or otherwise antisocial player, the majority of the time there is still plenty to do.

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

20 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Alternating activations feel so much better than "I Go You Go." It is not even comparable. So many of the issues with games feeling like a waste of time, or setting up your models only to pick them up before they even get used, or standing around for 40 minutes while your opponent rolls dice at you, all solved with alternating activations.

The gaslands creator wrote  a R&F game: Hobgoblin.

 

In said game one player moves all his models then it´s the opponent´s turn to do the same. After that shooting and close combat takes place with the same thought in mind: After a segment the opponent does the same. Only at the end of a turn are casualties removed. So there are less feel bad moments where attacks remove models before the afflicted model in question can do something in the same turn.

 

Once this is released it will bring me back to the painting table to work on my old WHFB stuff.  

[Pacific81]

3 hours ago, prava said:

 Well, bolters are are 8" in range, so you gotta get close :)

 

---

 

Am I the only one that is more interested for the game system being different than what is usual in GW? In the sense that hidden order seem something unique for GWs standard.

 

The hidden orders were a central component of 2nd edition Space Marine/Titan Legions. You placed all of your orders at the start of the turn, then revealed them at the same time, so you had to try and predict what your opponent would do and threats to each unit. It worked really well - sometimes you would leave units back sat uselessly on first fire, with no-one to engage, because you thought they would be charged. Other times your advancing unit got caught out by a charging unit you were not expecting. It really helped as well with the feeling of abstraction, that you were a commander up in orbit and viewing the battle on a holo-display. 

 

I'm really hoping Legions Imperialis does something similar, it was a lot of fun. 

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Noserenda said:

Both systems work perfectly well in the right places, alternating activations works fine to a point before it starts to grind, that said, despite ADHD the only time ive felt an opponents turn of anything grind is when it was a slow playing or otherwise antisocial player, the majority of the time there is still plenty to do.

 

I really do not think the current activation system of 40k works perfectly in any place. But not looking to derail the thread - just happy to see that a superior activation system is in place for this new game. Should make the experience much better for everyone who wants to enjoy their extra tiny battles!

[prava]

24 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

 

The hidden orders were a central component of 2nd edition Space Marine/Titan Legions. You placed all of your orders at the start of the turn, then revealed them at the same time, so you had to try and predict what your opponent would do and threats to each unit. It worked really well - sometimes you would leave units back sat uselessly on first fire, with no-one to engage, because you thought they would be charged. Other times your advancing unit got caught out by a charging unit you were not expecting. It really helped as well with the feeling of abstraction, that you were a commander up in orbit and viewing the battle on a holo-display. 

 

I'm really hoping Legions Imperialis does something similar, it was a lot of fun. 

 

The hidden orders has been confirmed by warcom.

[Matrindur]

Mission from White Dwarf. It seem these are to connect LI with HH. So you first play a LI mission and the winner gets a bonus in the following HH mission:

 

[Doctor Perils]

I can't remember if we've had any confirmation the launch box would be sticking around or one and gone?

 

I'm still feeling like I'd enjoy this game, but budget is low ATM, got way too much on the painting desk as it is, and I really wish they'd gone with another armour mark ^^' so I'd like to see how well the game gets picked up by the local community before jumping in feet first really

[Matrindur]

27 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said:

I'm still feeling like I'd enjoy this game, but budget is low ATM, got way too much on the painting desk as it is, and I really wish they'd gone with another armour mark ^^' so I'd like to see how well the game gets picked up by the local community before jumping in feet first really

In terms of other armour marks, we still have a few infantry like despoiler or breachers that are missing but not enough to fill a whole box unless they fill it just with 20 stands of that unit and while that would be nice for consumers its not really something GW does. So I think alternative armour marks, different special/heavy weapons and different Terminators could be used to fill those boxes.

So for example the current infantry sprue in the launch set has 4 stands of Tactical MKVI, 1 stand of Cataphractii Terminator, Assault Marines, Missile and Plasma Marines each, 1 stand of Legion Command and 2 Contemptors. (That sprue is doubled up in the box)

So in the future they could release another infantry box with the same composition just instead of MKVI Tacticals it could be MKIII, instead of Assault it could be Despoilers, instead of Cataphractii it could be Tartarus and different special/heavy weapons. Could also do a different Legion Command to represent Consuls or even a Terminator legion command. The Contemtors could be replaced with more infantry stands or just give us more weapon options.

 

Of course all that isn't really needed and the best solution for consumers would be individual boxes of each infantry type with more stands inside but again that's not really how GW does these things.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Matrindur

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yep, I also think they will continue to mix things so we have to buy multiple boxes.

We can hope ofc...

 

Would love a TDA only box.  But as their dreads are in two places and even their fast attack box is a jumble instead of focused it'll be a nope. Oh well, with only 10 per box there's no 90 TDA for me.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz

[BolterZorro]

They won't do unmixed infantry boxes for obvious reasons:

- it'd result in too many same infantry mini per box ! For example, termi would have 10+ bases per box

- doing only boxes with one sprue is not profitable enough as the main margin in on the plastic part.

- making one mould per infantry type is a manufacturer nonsens and an economical error. The ROI is way better when you just have one mould for all infantry.

 

 

And to be honnest, I prefer everything in the box: the starter is nice and I think that the upcoming infantry box is right to build a full army where you pick up the units from. I assume that there will be 4 bases (miniatures) of each specific infantry (termi/assoult/etc...) per box: this way, with 3 or 4 boxes, you are all set (uncounting the starter)

 

LI will be way (way way) more profitable than Epic for one unique reason: 8mm, the scale ! You say "it's only 2mm more than 6mm", I  (THEY) say "no, it is at least 33% more" which means less miniatures per srue, more sprues, more boxes to sell per army. All in plastic.

=>>> £££ $$$ €€€ +++

Edited October 14, 2023 by BolterZorro

[Matrindur]

12 minutes ago, BolterZorro said:

And to be honnest, I prefer everything in the box: the starter is nice and I think that the upcoming infantry box is right to build a full army where you pick up the units from. I assume that there will be 4 bases (miniatures) of each specific infantry (termi/assoult/etc...) per box: this way, with 3 or 4 boxes, you are all set (uncounting the starter)

If I discerned the small sprue image they shared before correctly the launch box infantry is on two sprues with 1 each of Legion Command, Terminators, Assault, Missile and Plasma, 2 Contemptors and 4 Tactical stands per sprue. Based on the Aeronautica boxes I wouldn't expect more than two sprues per box so its likely to be the same number of stands per box as in the launch set so only two each of the special infantry and eight Tactical Squads

[Noserenda]

My vague plan is a core of the plastics and then 3d print (or buy metals i guess) to stop too much redundancy and add a bit more variety, everything you could want is out there as people have been producing stuff for epic for years since GW abandoned it, and a lot of the 3d stuff has apparently been trivial to add a couple of MM to :D