Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[WrathOfTheLion]

56 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

In fairness, apart from LI, and indomitus [which was then sorted] I'm not aware of any horrific delays? Also not aware of many that haven't managed to get hold of stuff bar the occasional ltd ed book that sells out before it went on order?

 

It'd be a lot easier if GW were more transparent other than "it's been delayed". Ultimately, regardless of reasons, it's not available yet. I'd place good money on it being announced next Sunday for pre order on November 3rd.

I think Horus Heresy 2E was rumored to be delayed as well, although they never publicly showed that.

[caladancid]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

In fairness, apart from LI, and indomitus [which was then sorted] I'm not aware of any horrific delays? Also not aware of many that haven't managed to get hold of stuff bar the occasional ltd ed book that sells out before it went on order?

 

It'd be a lot easier if GW were more transparent other than "it's been delayed". Ultimately, regardless of reasons, it's not available yet. I'd place good money on it being announced next Sunday for pre order on November 3rd.

 

The delay is what it is, wishing for GW to be more reasonable is a pipe dream at this point. 

 

I was more just wondering if actual proof of the rumored reason for delay existed--- and it seems like the answer is no.

[Urauloth]

1 hour ago, 01RTB01 said:

In fairness, apart from LI, and indomitus [which was then sorted] I'm not aware of any horrific delays? Also not aware of many that haven't managed to get hold of stuff bar the occasional ltd ed book that sells out before it went on order?

 

I, on the other hand, know quite a lot of Kill Team enthusiasts.

[MithrilForge]

14 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

 

I, on the other hand, know quite a lot of Kill Team enthusiasts.

yeah, i know a few people who would like to run some Kasrkin kill teams but unable to ...those models are no where to be found and no reasons / apologies from GW there either...just radio silence... or diversionary static .... bzzzt ...bzzt... crackile...pop... Sooner than you think....Bzzt ..crackle....  ? .... 

[vadersson]

So for those of us with out a WD dam was there anything interesting revealed in the bat rep?  From what people are saying it does not sound like anything very crunchy.  :(

[Noserenda]

No hostility, but the only proof of most rumours is a release, trying to be definitive with this sort of thing is kinda pointless and risks the folks willing to leak stuff in the first place, hell maybe thats your motivation! :O ;) :P 

Occam's razor does require you to actually eliminate possibilities though, and we cant really do that? 

[Pacific81]

6 hours ago, vadersson said:

So for those of us with out a WD dam was there anything interesting revealed in the bat rep?  From what people are saying it does not sound like anything very crunchy.  :(

 

I wrote a bit on the DakkaDakka forum about things we may be able to infer about the battle report, bit of a wall of text but hopefully might be of interest! I think Black Briar gaming on youtube have also done an examination, although I haven't watched it yet

Spoiler

Missions
- Looks like a big change from previous versions, in that there is a lot more variation and ideas taken from other modern GW games. So in this battle we have a mix of 'assassination/protect' type missions, and objective control; this bit in particular looks like it is lifted from 2nd edition (you stay in control until someone else takes it from you - adds a bit of agency to the player, as they can risk re-locating troops but at the risk of someone swooping in and stealing it.)
- There must also be a 'list' of secondary missions, as each player makes a secret 2D6 roll. Although the boxout also confirms that these can be chosen, so maybe you have to make a selection based on the group of things that you have rolled for?
- Overall a 'VP' system used to determine the victor.

Force Selection
- Looks to be large blocks of tanks/infantry, which are not necessarily called 'company'. This differs in name from previous versions such as Titan Legions and Armageddon, you have 'phalanx', drop pod assault', 'garrison force' and 'demi-company' for example. It's hard to infer much from this, other than it looks like there is possibly more flexibility and it lines up more with Epic 40k, and as with that game and Armageddon individual units can be added to units (although differing from Armageddon, it looks like they have to be of the same unit type?)
- Points values have gone down significantly in most cases (predators, land speeders, titans. Although Terminators seem to be a lot cheaper, and Rapiers are exactly the same as 2nd edition (50pts for 3  )
- Command units are purchased separately, rather than being either a 'free' unit which comes as part of a company (2nd/TL) or purchased as an upgrade to existing units (Armageddon). They look to be optional, as many of the large 'companies' do not feature them.

Setup/Deployment
- Alternative unit deployment (one player puts down one unit, then their opponent, and that continues). I guess a bit more modern/easy to do than big boxes hiding deployment or writing on a hand-drawn map, than in 2nd 
- it's not possible to infer whether there is a very small squad coherency distance, or this is just a result of so many miniatures being crammed together on the tabletop!
- Initiative order play, which is rolled for each turn

The Game
- Orders phase: As with 2nd/Titan Legions, orders are placed next to units and hidden, then revealed at the start of the turn. 'Charge' and 'march' have now been split into two rule types. It's a shame that it looks like there is no colour coding on the order counters as in previous editions, and a few (advance and first fire) are probably going to look almost identical at a glance, so I predict lots of sloppy players (like me) forgetting to use units that are on first fire..
- Legion Special Rules: Looks like these can all be used if you have multiple legion abilities on the same side, as the Death Guard's Dangerous Terrain rule is used. Will be interesting to see if there are any negatives which come from combining different Legions to balance this out?
- Morale: 50% or less of a unit left they must take a morale test, or go onto fallback orders. You run away from enemy units, rather than hiding in terrain.
- Phases (I think?) are alternating, for both movement and firing, as the report describes units moving forward and then others coming to counter them. This is more like Armageddon, and a change from 2nd edition/TL, where movement was IGOUGO, but fire was alternating. Although it's worth noting that the community version of 2nd edition (NetEpic) introduced alternating movement too, and a big complaint of the original system was that the initiative roll was way to powerful and could spell doom for your side, so changing this isn't that surprising to me. It also is a bit more modern in terms of game design, and helps keep both players engaged.
As a counter to this, the Emperor's Children ability makes it sound like they can move and fire with their entire force first (!) If so does this supplant the usual turn structure? Worth noting also that this would be an immensely powerful ability, if fire is anything like as deadly as in previous games.
- Weapons traits: We know about this from other community releases. I know this is pretty divisive in the community as to whether it will add too much complication/rule checking, but the positive I will say here is that it sounds like they are all present on one page in the rulebook, so should be easy to reference.
- Close Assault: Sounds like it is exactly the same as 2nd edition, pair-off units and then roll 2D6, add it to your CAF (close assault factor) and loser is removed. Terminators are less than in the old edition (+4 compared to +6) although the fact that they completely wipe out the standard Legion troops they engage makes me think the overall range of CAF values may have just been lowered a bit. Looks like dreadnoughts have been made much harder in this game though as they wipe out some terminators and take out a Reaver titan!
- Pinning of close combat units: This looks to be the same as Titan Legions (which expanded the rules from 2nd edition) - units that are in a larger category than the unit assaulting them can just move out of combat and are not pinned. In an example in the game, a Kratos tank could just move out of combat with some jetbikes attacking it.
- Fliers: Hard to infer much about them, other than they are fast and seemingly quite deadly! A 'hovering' mode is mentioned, which indicates there may be different flight modes they can go into. Interception is mentioned too, but perhaps could be just a descriptive phrase.

Titans/War Engines:
- Does just look like a health point/damage system with void shields. No descriptions of localised damage, legs being immobilised. So looks like an extremely basic system, although there may be some sort of critical damage table as one of the Titan's reactors blows, so perhaps more like Armageddon? But it doesn't seem anything like 2nd edition/SM with arms being blown off or leg joints fused.

Summary of thoughts
Overall it is certainly a very impressive image of the units on the tabletop, and the miniatures look lovely. As we had suspected from previous news releases it looks like both more miniatures on the tabletop and a smaller playing area, leading to a very dense crush of miniatures and barely space to deploy everything, even with large contingents of units coming onto the board once the game starts - I did think Team Yankee was a crammed tabletop, but this takes it to another level!
But, although I've not kept up with 40k and AoS this seems to be more of a standard thing with modern games, so might be just me that is out of sync with their current releases. My concern is that it removes an element of tactical agency on behalf of the player, if the two units are just blasting each other at close range.
But, the mitigating fact to this is that going back many years the first 2nd edition battle report featured a 6000pt game (well above the 3-4000 that became standard for that edition), so it may just be that this is a good way to show off all of the miniatures, and provide a cool visual spectacle.
Other positives are the objectives and secondary missions - which are something a few versions of Epic have been missing - and look like they will be fun and a good way to keep players engaged. The Legion special rules also look like a good way of keeping some variety in the game.

 

@caladancid Sorry if that sounded heated as that was not my intent! It really is no skin off my nose whether it is a warehouse delay, a misprint or something more saucy! :)  I'll message you on PM what I was told the text contained as don't want to provoke an unsavoury conversation on the content. Like you say we won't ever know for sure unless we hear an official announcement (which won't happen) or someone posts photos of the dodgy area of text in question (which again I think is unlikely)

Edited October 23, 2023 by Pacific81

[EditedDruid]

6 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

As a counter to this, the Emperor's Children ability makes it sound like they can move and fire with their entire force first (!) If so does this supplant the usual turn structure? Worth noting also that this would be an immensely powerful ability, if fire is anything like as deadly as in previous games.

This was just a weird wording of the rule in the explanation text. The rule is just that you choose to win initiative without rolling, giving you the first activation each phase. Still strong, but not game-breakingly so.

[Matcap86]

Well... Damn another almost empty preorder day.

[Burni]

Wow. Really thought it would be this week.

 

Mind you, the logistics of getting all that stock back to the factory, replacing the book, repacking and then sending them back out to the various region warehouses must be a nightmare. I guess they can’t announce the new date until they are sure it’s all back in place.

 

WHC should have skipped the ‘sooner than you think’ message though. They just made things worse there. 

[Bung]

44 minutes ago, Burni said:

Wow. Really thought it would be this week.

 

Mind you, the logistics of getting all that stock back to the factory, replacing the book, repacking and then sending them back out to the various region warehouses must be a nightmare. I guess they can’t announce the new date until they are sure it’s all back in place.

 

WHC should have skipped the ‘sooner than you think’ message though. They just made things worse there. 

 

If GW would had been more Open with there communication people wouldnt be salty.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

I will summon my disappointment in a simple picture...

[Joe]

9 minutes ago, Bung said:

 

If GW would had been more Open with there communication people wouldnt be salty.

 

In theory, yes. In practice, turning around and stating "we've had to delay the release to have the book re-printed as the bindings on the copies we received were falling apart and not suitable for release" is only going to sabotage the business relationship they have with the company they go to in the UK for printing now.

 

It's a double-edged sword. You either acknowledge the delay and give minimal information (frustrating your customers and leaving your business relationship intact), or you put out a more expansive statement and risk your business partner deciding to drop you like a hot potato.

 

Also, for the room, the bindings were the issue according to a few reliable sources over on the HH AoD server. All the guff about it being because of inappropriate quotes / discriminatory remarks were people trying to stir up drama.

[phandaal]

4 minutes ago, Joe said:

Also, for the room, the bindings were the issue according to a few reliable sources over on the HH AoD server. All the guff about it being because of inappropriate quotes / discriminatory remarks were people trying to stir up drama.

 

That makes a lot more sense as a reason for the worldwide delay. Sucks to have that issue but better to sell good quality products right from the start.

[Bung]

41 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

In theory, yes. In practice, turning around and stating "we've had to delay the release to have the book re-printed as the bindings on the copies we received were falling apart and not suitable for release" is only going to sabotage the business relationship they have with the company they go to in the UK for printing now.

 

It's a double-edged sword. You either acknowledge the delay and give minimal information (frustrating your customers and leaving your business relationship intact), or you put out a more expansive statement and risk your business partner deciding to drop you like a hot potato.

 

Also, for the room, the bindings were the issue according to a few reliable sources over on the HH AoD server. All the guff about it being because of inappropriate quotes / discriminatory remarks were people trying to stir up drama.

 

They could have taken the blame themself without throwing their Business Partner under the bus.

The problem is they just said nothing usefull, they didnt even give an estimated time frame.

Then they put an advertising Battle Report into their magazine and kept a weekly nob informational advertisement article on their community Website.

Which feels for people waiting in the Game rather insulting and for a lot of people killed the interest in the game.

 

Their non communication killed a part of their sales which they probably dont realize.

 

[Noserenda]

I think they could have easily replaced "Sooner than you think" with "Mid November" at some point in the last few months and still had a little wriggle room, but surely they have known the new release date for the last few weeks at the very least? 

I dont really think the actual reason is particularly pertinent to most of us, we just want mini minis! Or at the very least some kind of reasonable time frame on the mini minis! Id love it all to come out together, but i really doubt it will be...

Though it was a reaaaaal quiet week this week, no releases from GW plastics at all...

Edited October 29, 2023 by Noserenda

[SkimaskMohawk]

The rumoured timeline I've heard is November 18 preorder for release on December 2. Comes from a guy who had one of the of review copies for the August launch.

 

But like all the LI rumours, it's just on the person's word; there isn't any hard proof.

[Redcomet]

The empty pre order weekend next week makes me think more of this game would have been out there

[Matrindur]

I am not 100% sure I got this right but apparently the same person who posted the Astra Militarum battleforce image early and has been a source of correct rumours in the past said the next preorders would be:

Battleforces -> Admech/Necrons -> LI

 

That would mean a November 25th preorder with either a December 2nd or 9th release depending if its a two week preorder or not. 

 

[MithrilForge]

3 hours ago, Matrindur said:

I am not 100% sure I got this right but apparently the same person who posted the Astra Militarum battleforce image early and has been a source of correct rumours in the past said the next preorders would be:

Battleforces -> Admech/Necrons -> LI

 

That would mean a November 25th preorder with either a December 2nd or 9th release depending if its a two week preorder or not. 

 

This would be the most believable ... I'm Rather Ambivalent now about the whole release schedule, if and when it comes out, if i have the funds then I'll get it... 

 

 

M. 

[Warmaster1988]

[deleted]

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Warmaster1988

[armarnis]

Was the picture a Fake?

[Warmaster1988]

I'm not sure to be honest...

 

 

Was posted on Reddit before it got deleted.

[Matcap86]

Yeah that's got to be fake, the warhammer account never tweets stuff with concrete dates. It's always "next week's preorders". 

[Cyrox]

Agreed - no way thats real.

 

Besides, I'm thinking next Sunday it will be on the article, with Pre-order on Sat 11th