Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Matrindur said:

Battlereport is up now but as I don't have a subscription I will need to wait for somebody else here to tell us how it went

 

I'll open by stating that I've not followed most of the leaked materials nor played epic before: 

 

It felt less rigged/staged than some of the games they run, seems to play well and smoothly with a bit more depth and tactical nuance than in 40k. Movement values seemed weirdly high compared to weapon ranges. Most stuff is 1 wound per base with low saves and correspondingly low WS/BS - no wound roll. The warhounds seem to be the exception to this with high saves, ignoring ap on light weapons and having voids to absorb wounds, but have 0 ability to cap objectives.

 

The forces they used were for a 1100 point game on the 3x3 board in the mission on warcom. They used basically double the starter boxes content for some units with a warhound each, so there's 2x core infantry for marines and SA, then 2 x ogryn detachment of 4, a 6 dread detachment etc. which shows the starter box alone is nowhere near enough stuff. 

 

Tbh at 3x3 even at that pointage, because it was mostly infantry, it didn't look too cramped and was aesthetically pleasing. I can see how on 5x4 or whatever you choose that 2k would have plenty of room to manoeuvre and look good in those circumstances, but I imagine 3k will be crowded.

 

As for the games outcome:

 

Spoiler

The SA get some early kills via melee, the warhounds have a duel, one kills the other then gets punched to death by dreads, the terminators deepstrike and get killed in melee, the SA tanks chip at things without ever being too effective seemingly. End score is SA 4, marines 8 due to control over the central objective being taken with rhinos early and morale failures on the SA front.

 

[BolterZorro]

5 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I imagine 3k will be crowded

For the WD battle rep, I counted between 100 to 200 models per side! Which is well above the usual 40K/AoS model count even in a swarm build (which tend to be rarer and rarer)

So, yes, it'll be super crowded.

[EditedDruid]

43 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

The forces they used were for a 1100 point game on the 3x3 board in the mission on warcom. They used basically double the starter boxes content for some units with a warhound each, so there's 2x core infantry for marines and SA, then 2 x ogryn detachment of 4, a 6 dread detachment etc. which shows the starter box alone is nowhere near enough stuff. 

Each side had their starter box contents + 1 infantry box, with the Astartes also getting a box of Rhinos. So if you wanted to recreate the battle, it would be $350 to get both sides.

[jaxom]

15 minutes ago, EditedDruid said:

it would be $350 to get both sides.

Damn, and that's just 1100 points. I was hoping (because small miniatures) the game would have a lower price point for a standard-sized army, which is 3,000 points if I recall correctly.

[Pacific81]

It is but I suspect the community will choose what points value is standard, especially when it gets to tournament organisers and they need to fit 3 games into a day.

 

If the standard 3k game takes more than 3 hours that is going beyond a gaming evening for most of the gainfully employed, and I suspect 2k might become the norm. Just my thoughts on it

[Gillyfish]

Indeed. One thing that concerns me slightly is they have stuck with second edition's approach to close combat with each stand have a 2d6+CAF score with the loser getting removed. It means you are either needing lots of pairs of multi-coloured dice or it will take quite some time to resolve; something later editions had addressed, if I recall correctly (although they may not have implemented precisely the same approach). It did mean some combats could take a loooong time (okay, we were playing 5,000 and even 10,000 point games back in the day when 3,000 was the norm, but even so...).

[BolterZorro]

3K points....the problem is being the rules scaled to this, especially when they say 1 detachment per 1500pts... But it is a bit crowded at 3k pts to my liking. And the allies (=read "the titans") are caped too.

The game is really deadly: the units are quickly less numerous.

We'll see in few month, when most of the tanks and units are available.

[LameBeard]

8 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

Three-year old Nephew? I saw that Legions Imperialis cardboard box and just knew he would love to play with it..

just don’t give him the whippy sticks

[LameBeard]

4 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

I might get some custom decals done for cheap efficiency then. Since I'm Ultramarines and none of those shown.

If you know anyone who got Betrayal at Calth you’ll find some dinky Ultramarine (or Word Bearer) decals designed for cataphractii shoulder pads. Also some pretty small legion numerals and markings for knee pads which might be about right for LI tanks etc?

[vadersson]

I think that trying to do 3000 points with what is being released right now would be a bit limiting.  Once there are more options for detachment types, I think 3000 pt games may be a thing.  I am thinking that if anyone runs early events ist should be 1000 to 1500 pts at most.

[Trokair]

I don’t know about anybody else, but for me 1500p games are probably going to be the norm for a long time. To be honest I can only see myself play larger if I am playing proxy Titanicus, or maybe a full Knight household.  

[gideon stargreave]

Im still thinking of buying a single box for pocket warhammer. 2 whole armies for a hundred quid! Magnets as bases and a sheet of metal under the board 

[Marshal Rohr]

I, as the arbiter of fun and cool, am decreeing all Legiones Imperialis Games must be played at 5000 points and take 8 hours so that we might all better understand the scale of the Horus Heresy (and support it financially so the goblins on the GW board let them do BFG Heresy)

[EditedDruid]

2 hours ago, jaxom said:

Damn, and that's just 1100 points.

I think you misunderstood me. The $350 is the cost to buy both sides, so 2200 points in total.

[LameBeard]

It’s the 3’x3’ board I like the sound of! Being able to play on a small board size is probably going to tip me into getting into this game. Otherwise I was just going to go for pocket40k like @gideon stargreave and gussying up some Titanicus bases.

[Valkyrion]

1 hour ago, Gillyfish said:

Indeed. One thing that concerns me slightly is they have stuck with second edition's approach to close combat with each stand have a 2d6+CAF score with the loser getting removed. It means you are either needing lots of pairs of multi-coloured dice or it will take quite some time to resolve; something later editions had addressed, if I recall correctly (although they may not have implemented precisely the same approach). It did mean some combats could take a loooong time (okay, we were playing 5,000 and even 10,000 point games back in the day when 3,000 was the norm, but even so...).

 

Unless I'm either misunderstanding you, or the rules as I read them (either or both is possible!) then it's not as bad you think.

In 30k, a squad of 10 terminators charging another squad of 10 models will occupy far more head space than one full strength terminator detachment (10 bases) duking it out with another 10 bases. Its just 2D6+CAF, loser is dead/wounded. No initiative steps, different WS, different AP etc. 

You have to roll 2D6 ten times, which sounds like work because you can't batch roll 20 dice to achieve the same result, but it's actually far less work than 'I5, WS5, A3, AP2 is one batch, 4 lots of I4 WS4, A2, AP3, Rending is another batch, 5 lots of I1, WS4, A2, AP2, Brutal is another batch' etc 

 

 

 

[TheMawr]

34 minutes ago, gideon stargreave said:

Im still thinking of buying a single box for pocket warhammer. 2 whole armies for a hundred quid! Magnets as bases and a sheet of metal under the board 

 

Ive done it with epic models in the 90s, but not magnets; I used thumbtacks instead.. and used styrofoam for the board. It worked quite well.

[LameBeard]

6 hours ago, Matrindur said:

Quickstart guide up on WarCom:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/FyaBMhvG4lHW3jtR.pdf

 

This is not a how to play, its just an additional formation and mission so two players can play a game with the Contests of the starter box

Do you get the feeling they realise that people are not going to split the box because they both want the astartes? 

[Noserenda]

SA was definitely a bold choice, though i was reminded by my buddy that no modern Heresy game has ever launched with just one faction playable (Though Titanicus is an arguable case) to hook in a broader range of people, and while SA infantry arent everyones cup of tea, their warmachines have a fairly enduring appeal, especially compared to their peer factions in this era.

I am hoping we get some original models for Epic down the line though, especially for the Mechanicum, who have limitless possibilities for cool toys  :D 

[Marshal Rohr]

After watching the battle report it’ll take a few tournaments before people realize trading away the Solar aux was probably a mistake and they make really good cheap alternatives to tactical squads and predators while you spend you points on some other higher damage output units

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ya, solar aux can flood the board with infantry; a full infantry tercio, taking all bonus ogryns, is 120. For 16 bases; 102 otherwise. 

 

That being said, hitting critical mass is easier said than done; I wouldn't want to buy a few max size units at GW prices, and I certainly don't want to clean the supports off prints.

[Marshal Rohr]

Those Ogryns felt way more effective than they are at 28mm. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Marshal Rohr

[spessmarine]

Their marketing posts on their socials have been some real gems too

 

https://www.instagram.com/warhammerofficial/?hl=en

[Pacific81]

In previous Epic versions, especially Epic SM/Titan Legions, Guard were one of the nastiest armies you could face. Artillery, the tanks & super heavies, massed infantry (especially the heavy support troops, who fired as well as marine devastators for a smaller points cost). On paper they were probably better than marines. Where things changed in practice was their lack of manouverability, poor morale and the Chain of Command rule (if the HQ died or couldn't give orders, the attack ground to a halt, which a canny opponent could exploit). So it meant in practical results marines often did a lot better than you would think - I'm really interested to see if the new game carries a similar mismatch & dynamic between the Legion and SA factions.

[Petitioner's City]

Interestingly, Mantic has announced they are indeed pursuing a mini-miniature game, co-written by Alesso Cavatore.

 

On epic, it does look very fun, but I really hope mech, wider Excertus, daemons and more come soon.