Legions Imperialis Legions Imperialis

[EmpiricalReed]

9 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

Looking at all the painted versions popping up on line, once they are painted and based, you have to really zoom in to notice it. 

 

See, this is the thing. With five marines to a base, lots of bases in a detachment and looking at them on the tabletop or in a display cabinet you will really have to work to pick out these issues. I spent this morning watching some how to play/battle report type videos and honestly the minis all looked pretty good in-game.

 

These compromises are not ideal, certainly, but if it really bothers some people they can just not buy it.

[Mendi Warrior]

Looking forward to getting the models in hand so I can gauge how easy it could be to remove some of the excess plastic from the undercuts.

 

My preference would have been to see tactical marines made in two parts just like the missile-launcher marines are. Or even in 3 parts: body, arm with weapon, dorsal pack. Drawback being of course that you then have to assemble said marines from 2 or 3 parts, with some very tiny ones. I don't mind that tbh but others might.

[Matrindur]

So I have been looking through the weapon keywords and special rules and there are a few interesting ones who aren't currently used on any model:

 

Neutron Flux: No model currently that uses a neutron weapon (Except the Dire Wolf but that one doesn't have this rule), looking at 28mm HH Neutron weapon are used by the Sabre tank, Predator and Sicaran versions, Falchion and the Cerberus Tank, all of which we don't have in LI yet. The first thought would be the Sabre/Falchion/Cerberus as those are completely new but the Neutron Flux is actually also used in HH and only for a single weapon, the Neutron-flux warheads of the Sicaran Arcus. That makes me think we will get that Sicaran version in the future which means they are open to make new versions of already existing models. Which opens up endless possibilities for further model options, for example different Predators/Support Squads/Heavy Weapon Squads

 

Loyalist/Traitor: The Loyalist keyword is used by the Warlord Sinister Psi Titan but the Traitor keyword isn't actually used for anything yet. And the only thing that would really make sense with that would be characters and Primarchs. As they already kinda teased Primarchs those should be pretty locked in.

 

Same for the Unique keyword, only really makes sense on characters and Primarchs

 

Battlesmith is also not used currently, not even for the Iron Hands special rules where I would have expected it. In HH in appears on Techmarines, two Consuls and Iron Hands specific characters/Ferrus Manus. Could be further confirmation for Primarchs with Ferrus Manus, could be a 5 man base of Techmarines or could be a sign that we will get individual models like Consuls or characters.

 

Other weapon keywords I have no idea where they could be used are Power Capacitor (double dice with first fire order) and Ripple Fire (reroll hits of 1 if order is first fire)

For special rules there is Phosphex which is used by the Leviathan in HH but he doesn't have that weapon in LI. There are other Phospex weapons for SM not yet in LI like on Destroyers or on the Arquitor but then again its not a weapon keyword but a unit special rule (Models engaged with unit with this rule gain no positive modifiers on their CAF for being garrisoned) Sounds like something we could see with Mechanicum?

 

Then there is stuff you can already guess like Attached Deployment which should be the SA Cyclops

Edited November 19, 2023 by Matrindur

[DuskRaider]

The Direwolf uses a Neutron weapon and they’ve already previewed a plastic version a few months ago, though I do expect to see Sabres and the Valdor at the very least. 

[Matrindur]

6 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

The Direwolf uses a Neutron weapon and they’ve already previewed a plastic version a few months ago, though I do expect to see Sabres and the Valdor at the very least. 

That one doesn't use the Neutron Flux rule, only Shock Pulse.

And while the Valdor and Sabres are likelier, the fact the Sicaran Arcus is the only one with the same rule in HH makes me think it will be that one.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Matrindur

[MoriyaSchism]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

Anybody have close-up pics of the old Epic minis to compare? Curious how these new models stack up.

 

The reviews on Chaosbunker.de have a fairly decent comparison.

[DuskRaider]

11 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

That one doesn't use the Neutron Flux rule, only Shock Pulse.

And while the Valdor and Sabres are likelier, the fact the Sicaran Arcus is the only one with the same rule in HH makes me think it will be that one.

Do we know for a fact that the LI iteration doesn’t have the Flux rule? I’m not sure if they specified or not, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s rules were slightly different from the Titanicus rules. 

[Matrindur]

2 minutes ago, DuskRaider said:

Do we know for a fact that the LI iteration doesn’t have the Flux rule? I’m not sure if they specified or not, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s rules were slightly different from the Titanicus rules. 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

25 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

Ripple Fire (reroll hits of 1 if order is first fire)

 

Ripple fire was the Arcus' special rule in 1st that allowed you to double the shots if you stayed still. Since most of the big tanks guns don't just bounce off marines, it makes sense that they're going with 1st as a base for rules special rules.

 

31 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

For special rules there is Phosphex which is used by the Leviathan in HH but he doesn't have that weapon in LI. There are other Phospex weapons for SM not yet in LI like on Destroyers or on the Arquitor but then again its not a weapon keyword but a unit special rule (Models engaged with unit with this rule gain no positive modifiers on their CAF for being garrisoned) Sounds like something we could see with Mechanicum?

 

Dark Angels can get phosphex and implacable on their infantry. Seems more of a melee rule than a shooting one, so probably destroyers and scyllax?

 

 

 

[Captain Idaho]

To be honest, at this scale and the nature of production, knowing what I've seen with my friend's 3D printer, I'm not surprised some tiny miniatures will struggle or not come out perfectly.

 

However, I'm actually ok with this on a personal level provided it's minimal and I do accept the overall feeling from the painted army will make a good difference to the impression they give you. It seems to be an exception rather than the rule.

 

So I'm alright on it.

 

I do understand the frustrations people have with some miniatures not being sufficiently cast. We are paying decent money as paying customers. As such we expect things to be up to the standards of what we're paying.

[DuskRaider]

17 minutes ago, Matrindur said:

 

Ahh, thank you! So it’s pretty much a given we’ll see Astartes / Auxilia (and possibly Mechanicum?) models with the new rule sometime down the line then. 
 

By the way, how the helm do Dark Angels get Phosphex but Death Guard don’t??

Edited November 19, 2023 by DuskRaider

[Matrindur]

5 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Dark Angels can get phosphex and implacable on their infantry. Seems more of a melee rule than a shooting one, so probably destroyers and scyllax?

I knew I would miss something, phosphex is ticked off then. 

Could still happen for future units but its not a rule nobody uses like the others anymore

[jaxom]

Does anyone know if it's possible to mix Astartes and Auxilia in a single army?

[Lord Marshal]

7 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Does anyone know if it's possible to mix Astartes and Auxilia in a single army?

 

30% of your force can be from another faction(s).

[Pacific81]

3 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

 

The reviews on Chaosbunker.de have a fairly decent comparison.

 

I don't think comparing a 9.5/10mm miniature from 2023 to a 6mm miniature from 1993 (that was a fraction of the price) is that meaningful a comparison.

 

I'd like to see the new Legions minis vs. Vanguard miniatures 'novan elite' vs. some of the 3D prints (Orbital Knights perhaps) as these are the other miniatures people are likely to use as an alternative.

[MoriyaSchism]

7 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

 

I don't think comparing a 9.5/10mm miniature from 2023 to a 6mm miniature from 1993 (that was a fraction of the price) is that meaningful a comparison.

 

I'd like to see the new Legions minis vs. Vanguard miniatures 'novan elite' vs. some of the 3D prints (Orbital Knights perhaps) as these are the other miniatures people are likely to use as an alternative.

 
Once more people get their boxes I'm sure we'll see comparisons of third party and 3D printed miniatures with the official stuff. I assume the people who got their boxes early probably can't do much without violating that NDA.

Edited November 19, 2023 by MoriyaSchism

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

30% of your force can be from another faction(s).

Darn, I was hoping that was just for Titan forces. I really wanted to do a fully mixed Imperium Secundus force of Calth High Guard, Ultramarines, Iron Warriors, and Imperial Fists.

[Matcap86]

4 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Darn, I was hoping that was just for Titan forces. I really wanted to do a fully mixed Imperium Secundus force of Calth High Guard, Ultramarines, Iron Warriors, and Imperial Fists.

 

I fully expect the first expansion (s) to give options for more variations in list building too be honest.

[Marshal Rohr]

6 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Darn, I was hoping that was just for Titan forces. I really wanted to do a fully mixed Imperium Secundus force of Calth High Guard, Ultramarines, Iron Warriors, and Imperial Fists.

As long as you aren’t taking three Warmasters or something I imagine the 30% rule will be the most commonly ignored rule for friendly games specifically so people can do thing like Dauntless Few armies. 

[Noserenda]

8 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Darn, I was hoping that was just for Titan forces. I really wanted to do a fully mixed Imperium Secundus force of Calth High Guard, Ultramarines, Iron Warriors, and Imperial Fists.

You can freely mix different Legions apparently, they are not allies, so this should work fine. 

But yeah i expect the allies limitation to be extremely flexible in actual play, more than a few people planning to play knights for example.

[Trokair]

As others have said, casually that 30% rule is going to get house ruled one way or another, at least I will. 

 

Also I don’t overly care that some of the infantry sculpts have a some issues, Infantry heavy army I can play in 40k/30k at 28mm scale. I collected AT and AI to play what I can’t in those, and LI will be much the same for me, from full tank companies to Knight Households and so on.

 

                                                                                              

Edit: In fact I suspect a chunk of the infantry in the box will end as basing material for my Titans, some of the Knights, and on some of the scenery that I am planning on building.  

Edited November 19, 2023 by Trokair

[Arkangilos]

9 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Sorry if this comes across as disrespectful but I did lol at this. Are you painting them up as a masterpiece for display in a public cabinet where people can shove their faces up against the glass? Are you hoping to walk around with a base of guys with the lack of undercut and decry GW in the street?

 

What is the other concern? Or is it simply about opinions of the creators skill and monetary value as a compound sense of "good enough" or an investment in an undefined metric of quality?

My problem with it is that I can do a home 3D print for about 1/5 the price and 10 times the quality. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

7 minutes ago, Arkangilos said:

My problem with it is that I can do a home 3D print for about 1/5 the price and 10 times the quality. 

But, that's only because you've already sunk the cost of the printer already? It's not really cheaper if you don't own the resin printer already. (It would have to be resin, FDM just isn't going to cut it, and I say that as someone who can FDM small stuff pretty well)

[Arkangilos]

8 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

But, that's only because you've already sunk the cost of the printer already? It's not really cheaper if you don't own the resin printer already. (It would have to be resin, FDM just isn't going to cut it, and I say that as someone who can FDM small stuff pretty well)

Well yeah, but that cost can print me several armies and I would still come out ahead, and I can use it for more.

 

The point is that the company that you pay a premium for has lower quality than a one of the cheaper resin printers. I think the one I got for my dad was around 200 dollars. 40 dollars extra of resin and now I’ve got two LI’s with decent to better quality. That’s *cheaper* than what they did for lower quality.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Pacific81]

Looking at these, they are OK but I wonder why GW went with these dynamic poses which accentuates the loss of detail and that effect? Could have used a more subtle 'standing at attention' type sculpt and I don't think would have had this problem.

 

As it stands I would put these below both many of the 3D prints I've seen and Vanguard. Perfectly fine and as has been pointed out unless you 4K eyes with built in zoom function you won't notice on the tabletop, but it's perhaps a bit disappointing that a company the size of GW with millions in turnover can't match what some dude has produced in his garage.