warhammer 40k 10th edition Mainline Legends

[MARK0SIAN]

They can make as much noise as they like about stuff like this being useable everywhere outside of a tournament and ‘actively encourage’ us as much as they like but if this stuff is going to be left out of the balance passes and points adjustments then it’s going to quickly become useless. 

[Kallas]

3 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

if this stuff is going to be left out of the balance passes and points adjustments

Yup, and the app. Leaving it out of that is a big middle finger to "yeah you can totally use it!".

[Rain]

Lord Zhufor the named FW World Eaters character is listed as a "counts as" Terminator Lord for vanilla CSM, as WE do not have Terminator Lords for what are undoubtedly good reasons 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Kallas said:

So you've missed the point: sure, it has an Assault Ramp, and yes, it never had a Transport Capacity...so why, rules-wise, does it have the Assault Ramp rule which is entirely redundant and pointless?

 

Predators are based on Rhino hulls and similarly do not have a Transport Capacity, and instead they have a different rule to reflect their different battlefield role: why doesn't the Terminus Ultra have this? Obvious answer is because GW doesn't case and just shoved a shoddy datasheet out of the door to be done with it, but please do go on about how it's totally a reasonable thing 

It has the assault ramp rule because it is a copy paste land raider with altered rules and loadout. 

 

Let's be clear, you're complaining it has a rule it doesn't need, for a piece of wargear it can't use effectively and has no impact on anyone's games? You're very literally complaining about nothing.

[Kallas]

Just now, Mogger351 said:

It has the assault ramp rule because it is a copy paste land raider with altered rules and loadout. 

Yes. A waste of space and effort (the little that was put into it)

 

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

Let's be clear, you're complaining it has a rule it doesn't need, for a piece of wargear it can't use effectively and has no impact on anyone's games? You're very literally complaining about nothing.

I'm complaining that they put absolutely no effort into these datasheets. The rule has literally no impact, because it does nothing - so what's the point of printing it? It shouldn't have that rule, it should have a rule relevant to the Terminus Ultra, not a bad copy-paste - that's the problem.

 

This is simply one example of the shoddiness of these documents, but others have pointed out others (eg, Lord Zhufor) and there are many more beyond that. GW are putting out crap quality documents and expecting us to be happy about it.

 

And before anyone trots out the trite argument, "You can just house rule it!" - yes, you can house rule anything, it doesn't make this any less of a crap document.

[tzeentch9]

Nice to see mutilators in there, with decent abilities for the cost

[Mogger351]

2 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Yes. A waste of space and effort (the little that was put into it)

 

I'm complaining that they put absolutely no effort into these datasheets. The rule has literally no impact, because it does nothing - so what's the point of printing it? It shouldn't have that rule, it should have a rule relevant to the Terminus Ultra, not a bad copy-paste - that's the problem.

 

This is simply one example of the shoddiness of these documents, but others have pointed out others (eg, Lord Zhufor) and there are many more beyond that. GW are putting out crap quality documents and expecting us to be happy about it.

 

And before anyone trots out the trite argument, "You can just house rule it!" - yes, you can house rule anything, it doesn't make this any less of a crap document.

At this point I'd wish they just didn't bother personally to avoid this level of hysterical drama.

[Kallas]

8 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

At this point I'd wish they just didn't bother personally to avoid this level of hysterical drama.

I wish people wouldn't excuse lazy and poor production quality.

[Kythnos]

6 hours ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Tinfoil hat time: Chaos Lord and Sorcerers are still missing their Jumppack profiles because they're going to get a kit with the codex

 

...

 

Anyone else want a go on this Hopium?

 

I really hope for that to be the case... but I fear it is just another overlooked opportunity by GW 

[MARK0SIAN]

38 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Yup, and the app. Leaving it out of that is a big middle finger to "yeah you can totally use it!".

‘Trust not to words, by his actions shall you know the heretic!’

[Mogger351]

8 minutes ago, Kallas said:

I wish people wouldn't excuse lazy and poor production quality.

It's lazy and poor because they don't want to support these minis, as clearly evidenced by the fact they're in Legends and in many cases not produced. Anything in production that does appear might as well be put on lastchanceto buy now rather than drag it out.

 

Besides, I can't recall the last time I saw a terminus ultra land raider, do you own one and that's why it offends you so?

[Kallas]

Just now, Mogger351 said:

Besides, I can't recall the last time I saw a terminus ultra land raider, do you own one and that's why it offends you so?

You're still missing the point: it's not about this one particular example, it's the fact that that one example of many errors, omissions and problems.

 

One of the units I do have that I am annoyed about is the Land Raider Helios: they absolutely gutted its capabilities and completely changed its purpose (the LR Helios is not an anti-air platform; the Tarantula Helios platforms are) and haven't bothered to rectify it (and they won't, because Legends). So one of my favourite units is pretty much trash because they put in no effort to even maintain the lore that they built for their game.

 

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

It's lazy and poor because they don't want to support these minis

And is that why the Indexes were similarly shoddy? Because I thought those were meant to be all of the current units, but they are also chock full of errors, inconsistencies and just generally poor quality.

 

Basically, the problem is not solely that this document is shoddy, it's that all of the documents they've put out for 10th so far have been shoddy, and this is just another to add to the pile.

[Mogger351]

14 minutes ago, Kallas said:

You're still missing the point: it's not about this one particular example, it's the fact that that one example of many errors, omissions and problems.

 

One of the units I do have that I am annoyed about is the Land Raider Helios: they absolutely gutted its capabilities and completely changed its purpose (the LR Helios is not an anti-air platform; the Tarantula Helios platforms are) and haven't bothered to rectify it (and they won't, because Legends). So one of my favourite units is pretty much trash because they put in no effort to even maintain the lore that they built for their game.

 

And is that why the Indexes were similarly shoddy? Because I thought those were meant to be all of the current units, but they are also chock full of errors, inconsistencies and just generally poor quality.

 

Basically, the problem is not solely that this document is shoddy, it's that all of the documents they've put out for 10th so far have been shoddy, and this is just another to add to the pile.

Sorry to hear it and sorry to say it, but they don't sell it, you can't buy it and they don't really want to have to write rules for the helios. The writing has been on the wall for FW units for the last 3 years really, it shouldn't be a surprise at this point and is largely why I liquidated all mine in 9th.

 

The legends sheet is notably worse than the index. The indices are nowhere near as bad as you are making them out to be however and GW have been very good at handling problems with them so far.

 

It appears that the indices were possibly last minute to a tight time scale, we won't know until we see a codex. But for rewriting every main line supported unit in 40k, they did an acceptable job in my eyes. Not perfect, but within the boundaries of good enough imo.

 

You sound angry about the game in general and generally out to take pot shots at it, the company along with anything not agreeing. It might be time to just go chill out for a bit, it's supposed to be a hobby you do to relax and enjoy. Come back when you or the game is in a space you can do that.

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

3 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

*snip

 

The legends sheet is notably worse than the index. The indices are nowhere near as bad as you are making them out to be however and GW have been very good at handling problems with them so far.

 

*snip

 

Had me there till this, strong disagree and want to type more... though I suppose that's going off topic hehe 

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Kallas said:

Yup, and the app. Leaving it out of that is a big middle finger to "yeah you can totally use it!".

Okay, if they're not going to put Legends on their mainline tools like the app, I am MUCH more sympathetic to the notion that Legends isn't viable for mainline play. That totally recontextualizes the issue for me. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Wispy

[Kallas]

20 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

it shouldn't be a surprise at this point and is largely why I liquidated all mine in 9th.

So sell your models...to who? If the writing is on the wall, and they're not supported, who's buying these out of production models that aren't being supported..?

 

21 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

The indices are nowhere near as bad as you are making them out to be however and GW have been very good at handling problems with them so far.

They're not as bad, no, but they are still bad filled with typos, inconsistencies and just bad balancing. As for being better at handling problems, sure - yes, they are better than they used to be (where they would drop a Codex and then peace out for six to ten years), but that doesn't mean that releasing things in this roughshod a state is good because they might get around to cleaning it up over the next two/three years...and then drop a new edition and start all over again. Hell, the edition cycle is a problem that has been called out by people for the last...two decades? And with the better updates, people generally would like to have the better balance that they acheived actually matter for longer than a few months - 9th edition balance was in a good place, even with the rules bloat issues of 9th, the actual balance was getting to a good place when 10th came in and totally wiped the slate clean. Guard and World Eatershad their Codex out for a few short weaks the 10th comes in to make that player investment worthless (ie, kinda crappy of them as a company to treat customers like that).

 

So yes, they are better than they were, but that doesn't mean they're good.

 

30 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It appears that the indices were possibly last minute to a tight time scale, we won't know until we see a codex. But for rewriting every main line supported unit in 40k, they did an acceptable job in my eyes. Not perfect, but within the boundaries of good enough imo.

Disagree. They knew what they were going to be doing, and this release has been awful in terms of quality control and game balance (which in turn impacts how much people will enjoy the games they play: having awful balance leads to unfun games). In 8th edition they did a bigger Index launch (ie, all of the units plus a much larger change to all of the rules in the game than 9e-10e) that was handled far better.

 

33 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

You sound angry about the game in general and generally out to take pot shots at it, the company along with anything not agreeing.

I am angry at GW, and at anyone who will make specious arguments to defend them for no good reason. This is a shoddy set of documents, their stated design goals of making the game "simplified but not simple" (10e has just as many rules as 9e, just spread out into different places, and with more complex core rules to boot) and the quality control has been terrible even by the standards of GW past; yes, I will call out people who make poor arguments to defend them.

 

36 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It might be time to just go chill out for a bit

Yes, I have other interests that I am pursuing, but I am still upset that GW is making such poor decisions and introducing bad habits into the hobby (ie, FOMO style releases) which are a detriment to the health of the hobby as a whole.

[burningsky25]

Yeah, huge double speak there.  If it's for mainline play it would be in the app.  That's a bit too bad.  I was pretty sympathetic towards them as far as good will here, I mean I think as flawed as it may be, this is still a far more comprehensive treatment of the complete model range than we've ever seen before, no? Obviously there's dissapoints, and some mistakes too, but it's a better starting point then I think we've had before, especially the pretty exhaustive 'counts-as' listing for outliers.  This is still improvement, even if there's still room for more improvement.  

[Doctor Perils]

37 minutes ago, burningsky25 said:

Yeah, huge double speak there.  If it's for mainline play it would be in the app.  That's a bit too bad.  I was pretty sympathetic towards them as far as good will here, I mean I think as flawed as it may be, this is still a far more comprehensive treatment of the complete model range than we've ever seen before, no? Obviously there's dissapoints, and some mistakes too, but it's a better starting point then I think we've had before, especially the pretty exhaustive 'counts-as' listing for outliers.  This is still improvement, even if there's still room for more improvement.  

Not for Chaos ;)

[Interrogator Stobz]

Lolz, woke up to 3 pages of topic talk.

GeeDub just trying to sell the same dirt sandwich but this time with sprinkles.

And proving themselves and their reason wrong yet again. They say it's too hard to support all these units, yet they just did that in just over a month . It boggles the mind how stupid they think we are.

 

Hey GeeDub, just write One.Single.Sentence.Differently.

Say they can be used in Tournaments.

Then there are literally no losers.

 

...well except for all the janky details that peeps are rightfully mentioning; but they're no better or worse than the indexes.

Anyone played against Eldar or Knights recently? Super balanced, loved it.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz
Sp. Etc.

[Harrowmaster]

Imperial Guard veterans haven't had rules since the 8th ed codex now, a real pity.

[Kastor Krieg]

Legends not in the app? Shame, app dead to me then. Ta!

[Kastor Krieg]

Also, why would anyone take a power weapon for Damned Legionnaires with how hilarious and straight up +2A their chainswords are?

[NovemberIX]

36 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Also, why would anyone take a power weapon for Damned Legionnaires with how hilarious and straight up +2A their chainswords are?

Because I'd have to remove my Sgt's arm and find a suitable replacement, and that's not worth the hassle just for it to change again in another edition or faq.

[Kastor Krieg]

Use the chainsword rules then. Problem solved.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Lolz, I just checked, and a month into this simplified Edition I need to play:

 

Core rulebook.

Core Rules Commentary.

Index Dark Angels.

Index Space Marines.

Munitorium Field Manual pdf.

Forge World Datasheets pdf.

Legends of 40k Datasheets pdf.

Legends of the HH Datasheets pdf.

Legends Field Manual pdf.

Legendary Units pdf.

Lolz, and Unaligned Units pdf.

 

Just imagine if there was a way to collate all the non-index units into one place.

Now Imagine what it could be called, maybe a Compendium?

Imagine if something like that had been done properly at the beginning of this Edition....

 

 

 

Now imagine it being kept digital so detail errors could easily be fixed....

Wow, the potential for that kind of simplified delivery is fantastic. 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Interrogator Stobz