More Firstborn retired

[CL_Mission]

Does make me think I should pick up a couple of Mars pattern Rhinos soon, I don't really expect them to be retired just yet but it could happen some day or GW might surprise us at it happens sooner. Not worried about them being obsolete though as their primary purpose will be to go in a cabinet and look nice.

[FarFromSam]

The more i think about it the more I feel it is finally time to pick up 3d printing.  Contrast speed painting makes sense viewed from a "hurry up and paint your models before they get axed."

 

  If anyone has a good link or system they could send my way I'd appreciate it.  

 

 

[Lemondish]

28 minutes ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

Weird to see the assault squad go, given that it's relatively recent. Given the recent Sternguard primaris replacements, and considering the recent Valrak rumors, I think this points to Primaris jump pack melee dudes being a direct replacement and hopefully having the same name. 

I disagree. I think it is just as likely that the new jump pack Primaris would be a replacement for Vanguard Veterans. Assault Squads, both rules and kit, are going away, but Vanguard Veterans are staying. There would be no reason to remove the unit rules for Assault Squads if a direct Primaris replacement, like they did with Sternguard, was coming.

[irlLordy]

I don't think its so clear that the rules for assault squads are going away. They've said that you can use the old models as van vets, which makes sense as they're a similar size. But they can't come out and say you can use them as new primaris assault marines as they haven't announced that unit yet. We'll find out for sure soon enough I imagine. 

[Redcomet]

1 hour ago, Haranin said:

Have you considered playing eldar?

 

Can we weaponize this?

Eldar? I would have thought the Everything was better 20 years ago crowd would go after Tau first 

[Bouargh]

Atm only Company command remains available from the Online store. But anyway, probably the level of stock was low already, anticipating on the move of warehouse.

 

But what is the most suprising to me is that they did not phase out the Predators. I would have said it would have been  an obvious target, being so redundant with the Gladiators´ variants...

 

We will have now to wait for an update of the Legends document (probably at codex release?). I see better why they but a mark version 1.0 on it now... (even if it was something we could have expected)

Edited July 25, 2023 by Bouargh

[TheArtilleryman]

Talking of Legends, this made me laugh. Rhino “Primaris” cannot transport primaris units. Just another example of the confusing name bloat 

 

 

I wonder if it can transport Primaris Psykers 

 

[lansalt]

14 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

But what is the most suprising to me is that they did not phase out the Predators. I would have said it would have been  an obvious target, being so redundant with the Gladiators´ variants...

I suspect GW underestimated the brutalistic and industrial appeal of tracked vehicles like Predators and Land Raiders for SM fans, just like they did with Terminators vs. Gravis. I bet those keep selling well compared to Repulsors/Impulsors/Gladiators.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

3 minutes ago, lansalt said:

I suspect GW underestimated the brutalistic and industrial appeal of tracked vehicles like Predators and Land Raiders for SM fans, just like they did with Terminators vs. Gravis. I bet those keep selling well compared to Repulsors/Impulsors/Gladiators.

 

 

I much prefer the traditional SM tanks. Not keen on the grav tanks at all. Would have liked an upscaled predator kit with some extra firepower. That would have found a place in my army.

[Alternis]

Honestly I welcome this change. 
 

I feel first born units just visually look a bit ridiculous next to their Primaris brothers 

the scale and detail alone is enough for me to pick up everything first born I own and chuck them in the bin and steadily replace with the newer kits.

 

While I acknowledge for a lot of people this is a huge blow when they’ve spent hundreds upon thousands of pounds on their first born army (why would anyone do that is beyond my understanding) I think it stands to reason people may want to be more stringent about that moving forward, nothing lasts forever.

 

I’ve been a huge champion of squatting first born and making the transition to this new scale with Primaris and I’ve met a huge amount of resistance from people and nay sayers.

but end of the day, the reality is, I’m right and have been right all along, this was going to happen and it’s just GW’s business practice.

The sooner we accept that first born will fade away into the distance the better.

 

The new eldar and Tyranid kits look amazing, and unless people let go of these old SM models it’s harder to get the same wow factor when new SM stuff comes out and blows us all away with how great it will look.

[Lemondish]

10 minutes ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Talking of Legends, this made me laugh. Rhino “Primaris” cannot transport primaris units. Just another example of the confusing name bloat 

 

 

I wonder if it can transport Primaris Psykers 

 

Been that way since 8th, but it's always great to see some of the early memes return haha

[Orion]

43 minutes ago, Alternis said:

I’ve been a huge champion of squatting first born and making the transition to this new scale

Dude, the scale isn't the major issue. The designs and lore are what people think are garbage.

Nobody has had anything bad to say about the new terminators. Or CSM legionaries and terminators.

 

You sound like you've been arguing with people while not even listening to them.

[Brother Christopher]

40 minutes ago, Alternis said:

While I acknowledge for a lot of people this is a huge blow when they’ve spent hundreds upon thousands of pounds on their first born army (why would anyone do that is beyond my understanding) I think it stands to reason people may want to be more stringent about that moving forward, nothing lasts forever.

 

I rarely get triggered online, but it was close this time. The sentiment you expressed really struck a nerve. Maybe it's the fault of the matter-of-fact nature of forum posts but what you wrote appeared to be quite condescending.

 

Since it is beyond your understanding why people would want to have a Firstborn army, here are two things for you to consider that maybe will help you develop a bit more empathy: 1. some of us, like me, got into 40k way before Primaris were released and would like to have the models they bought, painted and converted still be 'alive' for gaming purposes; 2. some of us don't like the Primaris aesthetic - sure, the models have a better presence thanks to their larger size and somewhat improved proportions, but the core infantry is, arguably, more bland than the older marks of armour (e.g., with few exceptions, there is virtually no difference between the kits using Mk X armour) and a departure from the older 'feel' of 40k.

 

The thing is that there aren't too many precedents in 40k for 'removing' unit. I type 'removing' since technically the models will get some rules but I think that the majority of us know that these won't receive due attention and care, especially in light of the recent promotion of tournament rules, effectively 'removing' models from the game. Squats come to mind but apart from that, over the years, not many units were 'deleted' the way these appear to be. Sure, we had the odd Veteran unit removed (like biker Vets) but you could repurpose your models. Try to repurpose a Castaferrum Dreadnought or a Land Speeder or try fitting your Sterngruad into a Razorback. Or enjoy your classic Ravenwing army now.

 

It's a huge shame that the minority of players to some degree involved in 40k and having older armies need to suffer because "bloat" has to be removed and most of that bloat was, as many members aptly pointed out, a result of GW cashing in on Primaris that were the safe bet all along from a business perspective.

[Lysimachus]

Personally, I'm much happier with the 'Primaris' minis, the improvements to both scale and posing are just huge. I just wouldn't use Firstborn minis at all at this point.

 

However, I 100% agree with those who said they prefer the aesthetic of the older minis with their various armour Mks. But if I can make a suggestion; why not just have the best of both worlds? A variety of heads, shoulder pads and backpacks are fairly easy to come by, either out of your own bitzbox of Firstborn bits, or stuff like 3d print bitz designers/sellers. It's also pretty easy conversion work to remove chest eagles, add bonding studs, alter Primaris greaves to look like other Mks (especially on the Intercessor kit where these are separate), swap out bolt rifles for bolters or bolt carbines or whatever, etc, etc, etc.

 

That's what I'm doing with my current army, and I'd say it works pretty well? Stuff like that can do a lot to add the Space Marine character back into those (admittedly plain) Primaris squads?

 

 

Edit: perhaps that is a little OT. Regarding the removal of units, I have to view it as a good thing. The bloat in the Index is so bad! Anything that cuts down the numbers of datasheets (and gets us further away from the pointless division between Firstborn/Primaris) has to be beneficial for the upcoming Codex. I'm very happy that a Sternguard Squad is a Sternguard Squad is a Sternguard Squad, use whichever minis you prefer to represent them! I hope it will be the same for an Assault Squad or a Bike/Tac/Dev Squad. 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Lysimachus

[Brother Lunkhead]

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This thread is being locked down for a two-day cool down period in hope that some fraters can rethink how they can post their opinions and observations in a manner that is conducive to healthy discussion.

 

There is no need to be dismissive or otherwise derogatory of fellow fraters personal opinions on the aesthetics and other characteristics involving Old Guard (i.e. First Born) and Primaris Space Marines. Bashing each other is in no way constructive. It is however a good way to get this thread permanently shut down. I hope that is not your goal.

 

PM me is you have any questions or concerns. In all thing B&C I am your servant

 

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[Brother Lunkhead]

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Apologies for my tardiness

 

After some discussion, it's been decided that this thread will remain closed. This makes sense as the NRBA is for... well, News, Rumors and Board Announcements and not extended discussions

 

For those of you who wish to continue the discussion, there is a thread serving this purpose in the ADEPTUS ASTARTES forum that has not been locked.... not yet at least

Remember to be kind

 

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Edited July 28, 2023 by Brother Lunkhead