GW eliminating certan First Born Units - Ravenwing in trouble

[ValourousHeart]

16 hours ago, Gillyfish said:

Am I right in this assumption though, does it effectively mean that someone with a purely oldster marine force can't play anymore, or is that still possible?

 

Just to add on to what Cpt. Bannockburn and Karhedron have already said.

 

In past editions we've had to reorganize our collections because something changed in how units were built.  When I first got into the hobby my Sisters of Battle were 5 woman squads and if you added a special and heavy weapon the squad size increased to 7 models (unique for them).  The next edition Sister of Battle squads were 10 woman, and special and heavy weapons replaced a model with a bolter, similar to how other armies built their units.

 

Same thing with marines.  We used to not get plasma cannons at all.  And once we got plasma cannons, certain codices couldn't take them in tactical squads.  Then everyone could.  Squad sizes also changed.  Who remembers when players would flood the board with 6 man, Lascannon, Plasma gun Tactical Squads?  Who remembers the very next codex when we got locked to 5 or 10 marines per squad?

 

It would be wise to treat this as just another edition where we need to reorganize our collections.  But you should not get hung up on Primaris vs Oldschool Marines.  Just build the units so they look mostly correct.  Plasma = hellblaster

[Tacitus]

12 hours ago, ValourousHeart said:

 

Just to add on to what Cpt. Bannockburn and Karhedron have already said.

 

In past editions we've had to reorganize our collections because something changed in how units were built.  When I first got into the hobby my Sisters of Battle were 5 woman squads and if you added a special and heavy weapon the squad size increased to 7 models (unique for them).  The next edition Sister of Battle squads were 10 woman, and special and heavy weapons replaced a model with a bolter, similar to how other armies built their units.

 

Same thing with marines.  We used to not get plasma cannons at all.  And once we got plasma cannons, certain codices couldn't take them in tactical squads.  Then everyone could.  Squad sizes also changed.  Who remembers when players would flood the board with 6 man, Lascannon, Plasma gun Tactical Squads?  Who remembers the very next codex when we got locked to 5 or 10 marines per squad?

 

It would be wise to treat this as just another edition where we need to reorganize our collections.  But you should not get hung up on Primaris vs Oldschool Marines.  Just build the units so they look mostly correct.  Plasma = hellblaster

Well, I'd wait until the codex comes out to find out what gets reorganized onto the not-good shelf - or worse: the Legends Shelf.  As I sit and stare at the new Assault Marine Squad I just finished. 

[Gillyfish]

ValorousHeart, oh I remember the Plasma Cannon tactical squads and six man tactical squads well - that was probably the era when I had most time to paint and play! So, yes, it's absolutely true that your collection can adapt. My sense had very much been that Primaris were rather more different (the basic marines with bolters look like bog tacticals so they are easy, but having whole squads with special weapons may be a little more challenging to field). So if it is straightforward to 'count as', then that's great. 

[ValourousHeart]

6 hours ago, Gillyfish said:

but having whole squads with special weapons may be a little more challenging to field

 

Check out the Horus Heresy section of the GW site.  Marines have 4 different boxes of special and heavy weapon upgrades each for $47.  Not sure how much work you want to put in.  But it is a less expensive alternative, if you have a lot of extra bolter marines you don't plan to field.

[Marshal Mittens]

I am using my Horus Heresy Marines as some first born for my 40k Dark Angels. The plan is 80 bolter marines, 1 HSS with Lascannons, and 1 TSS with plasma guns for a total of 10 squads of Las/Plas for 40k. As the 30k range expands I expect a lot of stuff will have huge cross over. 

 

I do hope that the big Dark Angels refresh will see a refresh of 1st and Second Company units. 

[Harleqvin]

i plan to use legends stuff for my casual games. i haven't been doing much tourney stuff for several years now. i'll get new stuff from time to time still.

[march10k]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:57 AM, Tacitus said:

I'm kinda thinking situational - pick the target profile you need the most help with compared to the rest of your army or play for the unit etc. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is melta good against?  It sure isn't tanks with its no shots and no strength.  AP and damage are fine, but you're going to whiff.

 

On 7/31/2023 at 5:48 AM, ValourousHeart said:

the exceedingly rare Darkshroud 

 

Really?  I ran one in 9th and am planning to run one in 10th.  In 9th, it shrouded two dev squads huddled around Azzy in the upper floor of a ruin.  In 10th, I'm going to try to bring back my mechanized Deathwing, and stealthing a couple-three land raiders on turn one in case I'm going 2nd sure sounds like a good investment.

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to/hoping for some awesome new kits for Ravenwing in the new codex.  Not just black outriders and invaders with an upgrade sprue, but RW-specific unique units like the Darkshroud and Dark Talon.  Like, the attack bike was a bike with a sidecar.  Can we get a trike to replace it, one that can join an outrider squadron?

Edited August 29, 2023 by march10k

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, march10k said:

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is melta good against?  It sure isn't tanks with its no shots and no strength.  AP and damage are fine, but you're going to whiff.

Melta is still good at vehicles, but the light ones  Also the super heavy Infantry like Gravis - so I'm planning on using my Melta against speeders, Bikes, Gravis, Terminators and such.  Your point isn't bad, but its not as bad as people are making it out to be.  They blew it on Melta.  Melta should have Anti-Vehicle, Plasma should probably have Anti-monster (though they need to find a new way to protect the Character Monsters - probably by giving them a different keyword that gets all the rules while it skips ANTI-MONSTER) Grav should have been Anti-Infantry or nothing at all. 

 

Spoiler

Really?  I ran one in 9th and am planning to run one in 10th.  In 9th, it shrouded two dev squads huddled around Azzy in the upper floor of a ruin.  In 10th, I'm going to try to bring back my mechanized Deathwing, and stealthing a couple-three land raiders on turn one in case I'm going 2nd sure sounds like a good investment.

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to/hoping for some awesome new kits for Ravenwing in the new codex.  Not just black outriders and invaders with an upgrade sprue, but RW-specific unique units like the Darkshroud and Dark Talon.  Like, the attack bike was a bike with a sidecar.  Can we get a trike to replace it, one that can join an outrider squadron?

I doubt the aircraft will change.  I wouldn't be surprised to see an upgrade kit for Dark Angel Vengeance and Darkshrouds. 

[ValourousHeart]

22 hours ago, march10k said:

Really?  I ran one in 9th and am planning to run one in 10th.  In 9th, it shrouded two dev squads huddled around Azzy in the upper floor of a ruin.  In 10th, I'm going to try to bring back my mechanized Deathwing, and stealthing a couple-three land raiders on turn one in case I'm going 2nd sure sounds like a good investment.

 

I'm looking forward to/hoping for some awesome new kits for Ravenwing in the new codex.  Not just black outriders and invaders with an upgrade sprue, but RW-specific unique units like the Darkshroud and Dark Talon.  Like, the attack bike was a bike with a sidecar.  Can we get a trike to replace it, one that can join an outrider squadron?

 

I meant exceedingly rare according to the fluff.  Lore wise Dark Angels should only have a few Dark Shrouds, significantly less than the number of Tornados they have.

 

I'm also looking forward to what GW comes out with for new Ravenwing options.

[march10k]

11 minutes ago, ValourousHeart said:

 

I meant exceedingly rare according to the fluff.  Lore wise Dark Angels should only have a few Dark Shrouds, significantly less than the number of Tornados they have.

 

That's true.  But it's also irrelevant in a game where a space marine should really be worth a regiment of guard.

[march10k]

On 8/30/2023 at 1:13 AM, Tacitus said:

Melta is still good at vehicles, but the light ones  

 

Ah.  I favor autocannons for that work (been playing more guard lately).

[Tacitus]

12 hours ago, march10k said:

Ah.  I favor autocannons for that work (been playing more guard lately).

Man Portable autocannons are a little less common for Loyalist Marines.

[Progenitor]

Time to buy Suppressor kits? ....... oh wait....... 

[ValourousHeart]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:49 AM, march10k said:

That's true.  But it's also irrelevant in a game where a space marine should really be worth a regiment of guard.

 

We just have to accept that elite vs hoard is never going to be Thermopylae on the table top.  Either the elite is going to be statistically unbeatable by what ever randomizer we use.  Or hoard will be impractical at scale.

 

But that wasn't my point.

 

I understand that I'm likely in the minority.  But it seems as though there is a tendency to over use the high command.  Why exactly does a Primarch need to be the one to change a light bulb on a remote relay station himself?  Surely this is a task that can be delegated.