10th edition marine release speculation / wishlisting.

[Marshal Reinhard]

21 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

Other than updated terminators, no. 
 

however, the kit is positively ancient!

this. plz new kit, gw

[Bouargh]

With the Sunday Peview showing a repackaging of the minis from the Shadowspear box, I expect the Suppressors will eventually not be part of any new boxed set.

I could be wrong of course as Eliminators and Infiltrators are going to keep on coexisting in 2 versions of Fast clamp on one hand and more standard kit with more options on the other hand...

 

YetI feel it reasonably unprobable that a kit will hit the shelves now for Suppressors with more options...

[Karhedron]

On the positive side, their continued availability means that at least Suppressors aren't likely to be shunted off into Legends as some people had feared.

[JeffJedi]

Suppressors could work if they made a fancy second weapon option for the kit, say Neo-Volkite Cannons or something fun.

 

I can't see any point making Infernus Squads into a full option kit.

 

I'd buy Gravis Chaplains and Librarians any day of the week.

Edited August 15, 2023 by JeffJedi

[Dracos]

On my wishlist is one page for each of the Ignored Chapters (Sallies, Scars, Raven, Hand and Fist) that grants a special Enhancement and two  stratagems and a wargear that typified that Chapter from its 8th edition supplement. 
 

One becomes exhausted seeing or listening almost only about UM, BA, DA, SW each edition.  Be it good or bad at least they are quarantined some kind of love where the Ignored are not. 
 

We (royal We lol) do not count GK, DW, or Sisters as they are lackeys of the Inquisition  and BT are just recently back in the limelight. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Dracos

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Dracos said:

On my wishlist is one page for each of the Ignored Chapters (Sallies, Scars, Raven, Hand and Fist) that grants a special Enhancement and two  stratagems and a wargear that typified that Chapter from its 8th edition supplement. 
 

One becomes exhausted seeing or listening almost only about UM, BA, DA, SW each edition.  Be it good or bad at least they are quarantined some kind of love where the Ignored are not. 
 

We (royal We lol) do not count GK, DW, or Sisters as they are lackeys of the Inquisition  and BT are just recently back in the limelight. 

 

I'd be prepared to be disappointed.  From the early preview stuff, it looks like they're taking "Codex Space Marines" into a "This is a codex for all Space Marines, not just Ultramarines" and the different detatchments were going to be basically 1st Company, 2nd Company, etc etc. since they believe that the distinct companies are more likely to act like each other than they expect the 2nd Company of White Scars and the 6th Company of White Scars to be VERY different from each other.

It's a new way of organizing these things.  Should lead to a "6th Company Detatchment" that is like, all about Bikes (I picked a random company number as I can't remember which company tends to be the bike squad one) and has benefits for bikers and maybe makes Outriders Battleline or something.

I don't expect we'll get "Raven Guard Detatchment" that's good for just Ravenguard.  I expect we'll get a "10th Company" detatchment that is all about the "Special Forces" type space marines; incursors, reivers, eliminators.

I think it'd be cool of them to start filtering out more detatchments in White Dwarf that they could include in the free rules.  I doubt it'll happen, but I could hope.  That's where you could find something like "Kayvon Shrike's Honor guard" detatchment or something that really drills down on Raven Guard stuff, for example.

[Dracos]

30 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I'd be prepared to be disappointed.  From the early preview stuff, it looks like they're taking "Codex Space Marines" into a "This is a codex for all Space Marines, not just Ultramarines" and the different detatchments were going to be basically 1st Company, 2nd Company, etc etc. since they believe that the distinct companies are more likely to act like each other than they expect the 2nd Company of White Scars and the 6th Company of White Scars to be VERY different from each other.

It's a new way of organizing these things.  Should lead to a "6th Company Detatchment" that is like, all about Bikes (I picked a random company number as I can't remember which company tends to be the bike squad one) and has benefits for bikers and maybe makes Outriders Battleline or something.

I don't expect we'll get "Raven Guard Detatchment" that's good for just Ravenguard.  I expect we'll get a "10th Company" detatchment that is all about the "Special Forces" type space marines; incursors, reivers, eliminators.

I think it'd be cool of them to start filtering out more detatchments in White Dwarf that they could include in the free rules.  I doubt it'll happen, but I could hope.  That's where you could find something like "Kayvon Shrike's Honor guard" detatchment or something that really drills down on Raven Guard stuff, for example.

Yeah it’s GW so always expect to  be disappointed unless you’re one of the colorful Big Four +1. Apparently unless you’re a Roman, vampire, berserker, or “not” Fallen you’re not worth promoting a Chapter theme around. Lord forbid we have an army of Super Soldiers designed to act an fight like professional soldiers without the bling 

 

Apologies. Must be dropping my sour grapes from six months of cool we had there in 8th. 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

BA get their honor guard back.

 

idk if they should be a viable competition for SG, or the options you use as a cheaper option for smaller games.

 

or SG can only be attached to the warlord while HG can be attached to any HQ

[Subtleknife]

On 8/15/2023 at 2:14 PM, Dracos said:

On my wishlist is one page for each of the Ignored Chapters (Sallies, Scars, Raven, Hand and Fist) that grants a special Enhancement and two  stratagems and a wargear that typified that Chapter from its 8th edition supplement. 
 

One becomes exhausted seeing or listening almost only about UM, BA, DA, SW each edition.  Be it good or bad at least they are quarantined some kind of love where the Ignored are not. 
 

We (royal We lol) do not count GK, DW, or Sisters as they are lackeys of the Inquisition  and BT are just recently back in the limelight. 

Where do Ultras get anything on the level of BT, BA, DA or SW. Sure they have the odd character but they have recently had a fair few unique character moved to legends. They arent getting their own book like the above. They lost their supplement (which I am quite bitter about) just like everyone else. I don't view gladius as an Ultra specific detachment as everyone can use it. 

 

Sure they get a bit more than say RG but they arent getting their own codex like a few SM chapters are.

 

Personally I'm of the view either all first founding get their own book or all are lumped in one big book with each first found getting a page etc like the Heresy. Keeps it nice and fair for all. I would love if now the primaris range is nearing (my guess) completion all first founding chapters get a special unit etc for their use only. 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Subtleknife

[LSM]

Assuming the Jump Assault Intercessors, Terminator Chaplain, etc. that have been rumoured are a lock, I'd like to also see:

• With new Terminators should come new Assault Terminators. (Personally, I'd like to see Lightning Claws go back closer to how they were in ~3rd, with the claw part not having the "knuckle duster" aspect.)
• If Suppressors were to come as their own kit (less likely, with the Space Marines Vanguard Task Force becoming an item), a secondary gun option. JeffJedi mentioned Neo-Vulkite, but a Grav weapon could also be a good fit, I think. 
• A new elite jump infantry (or re-imagined Vanguard Veterans) along the lines of a generic Kayvaan Shrike. (I know some people dislike his jump pack, but I'm a fan.)
• A bionics upgrade sprue.

[Dracos]

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

Where do Ultras get anything on the level of BT, BA, DA or SW. Sure they have the odd character but they don't they have recently had a fair few unique character moved to legends. They arent getting their own book like the above. They lost their supplement (which I am quite bitter about) just like everyone else. I don't view gladius as an Ultra specific detachment as everyone can use it.

 

Sure they get a bit more than say RG but they arent getting their own codex like a few SM chapters are.

 

Personally I'm of the view either all first founding get their own book or all are lumped in one big book with each first found getting a page etc like the Heresy. Keeps it nice and fair for all. I would love if now the primaris range is nearing (my guess) completion all first founding chapters get a special unit etc for their use only. 

 

 

 “ …. the odd character.” ?

 

With all respect they have, over various editions, had either the only or the best Chapter Master and Librarian, often the best combo. They’ve had a variety of special characters and units no one else had comparable unit to and … yeah, our first Primarch, Bobby G for close to a decade now. Downplaying those advantages over the Never Have Had Chapters is disingenuous. 
 

Not to mention more recently that their re-deployment/movement/doctrine/stratagem shenanigans were at least as good and often better than any of the Ignored Chapters. 

Out of 30plus years in this game the Ignored Chapters each had 6 months of greatness before it was swept away.

 

No, the UM may not have found broken combos for a fleeting moment of glory in 8th but over the life of the game they have always had a special treatment other “vanilla” Chapters could only wish for. 

[Subtleknife]

3 hours ago, Dracos said:

 “ …. the odd character.” ?

 

With all respect they have, over various editions, had either the only or the best Chapter Master and Librarian, often the best combo. They’ve had a variety of special characters and units no one else had comparable unit to and … yeah, our first Primarch, Bobby G for close to a decade now. Downplaying those advantages over the Never Have Had Chapters is disingenuous. 
 

Not to mention more recently that their re-deployment/movement/doctrine/stratagem shenanigans were at least as good and often better than any of the Ignored Chapters. 

Out of 30plus years in this game the Ignored Chapters each had 6 months of greatness before it was swept away.

 

No, the UM may not have found broken combos for a fleeting moment of glory in 8th but over the life of the game they have always had a special treatment other “vanilla” Chapters could only wish for. 

I feel like you have completely missed my point and selectively quoted a very small partial sentence which really doesn't capture what I've said.

 

To sum up again, I say they get a bit more than say RG sure i dont dispute that, but they arent on the level DA, BT, BA etc. 

 

I don't see the relevance to past editions when we are in tenth. 

 

I want to see it be fair across all first founding. Either all get their own chapter book/supplement or all in one book with a page each on uniqueness like HH. I don't see that as particular unfair, do you?

 

@DemonGSides there isn't any point replying to me, I blocked you a long time ago. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Subtleknife

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

I feel like you have completely missed my point and selectively quoted a very small partial sentence which really doesn't capture what I've said.

 

To sum up again, I say they get a bit more than say RG sure i dont dispute that, but they arent on the level DA, BT, BA etc. 

 

I don't see the relevance to past editions when we are in tenth. 

 

I want to see it be fair across all first founding. Either all get their own chapter book/supplement or all in one book with a page each on uniqueness like HH. I don't see that as particular unfair, do you?

 

I think you've lost the plot.  Ignoring the historical over-representation of the Ultramarines to complain that you have to share the limelight is a new level of hilarity.  Not to mention they have 8 named characters, whereas the other FF codex compliant chapters all have... 1.

Oh yeah, ultramarines, just the most destitute of Space Marine factions

[Dracos]

2 hours ago, Subtleknife said:

I feel like you have completely missed my point and selectively quoted a very small partial sentence which really doesn't capture what I've said.

 

To sum up again, I say they get a bit more than say RG sure i dont dispute that, but they arent on the level DA, BT, BA etc. 

 

I don't see the relevance to past editions when we are in tenth. 

 

I want to see it be fair across all first founding. Either all get their own chapter book/supplement or all in one book with a page each on uniqueness like HH. I don't see that as particular unfair, do you?

No, I understood perfectly. I even liked the post because I agree with “your” point. 
 

but

 

Your reply ‘starts off’ refuting the historical (as DemonGSides points out) “my” point that half of the Founding Chapters have been ignored, ground that has lain fallow for decades while historically the Big 4 +1 have received lion’s (little L) share of product.
 

To say the UM have gotten the “odd character” struck me as misrepresenting they have been the marketed alpha dog of the games poster boys for over thirty years. It is what it is but what it has been is an insult to those of us who have been loyal to one of the Ignored or DIY Chapters told to always go <counts as> then have the community rage over a red Marneus or  green Sanguinius.

 

Please don’t take it too personal as it was not meant that way. Just that you started your point off (that overall I agree with) in a way that strikes a nerve for a 30plus year fan of a Chapter that GW has treated as window dressing.
 

Which is a shame because I humbly present the Raptors (and Raven Guard) as Chapters with fighting styles that make sense to someone like myself who appreciates a more modern combat style over that of WW1. 

[Subtleknife]

16 minutes ago, Dracos said:

No, I understood perfectly. I even liked the post because I agree with “your” point. 
 

but

 

Your reply ‘starts off’ refuting the historical (as DemonGSides points out) “my” point that half of the Founding Chapters have been ignored, ground that has lain fallow for decades while historically the Big 4 +1 have received lion’s (little L) share of product.
 

I have no idea what that DemonGSide put. I blocked him a long time ago, usually people end up on my block list for good reason, so I've got no inclination to unblock him.

 

My reply started off asking (and I paraphrase), "how UM can be considered on the level of BA and DA etc." Sure I agree they have had a level of support higher than the likes of Raven Guard, I even acknowledged that in my post. What I disagree with is that they are on the same level as the other "special" chapters.

16 minutes ago, Dracos said:

 

To say the UM have gotten the “odd character” struck me as misrepresenting they have been the marketed alpha dog of the games poster boys for over thirty years. It is what it is but what it has been is an insult to those of us who have been loyal to one of the Ignored or DIY Chapters told to always go <counts as> then have the community rage over a red Marneus or  green Sanguinius

They may appear on the front cover of white dwarf but they get very little rules to show for it now they have lost the index and have been lumped back with everyone else, which i think is wrong for every chapter beinf stuck together. Most of their history they have not had a specific codex or any special treatment on the level of BA etc. Again, I am not saying they have been treated as bad as Raven Guard, my point, to reiterate again is they arent on the same level as BA, DA etc. In my opinion, all first founding chapters should have equal attention. Surely we can agree on that?

 

16 minutes ago, Dracos said:

Please don’t take it too personal as it was not meant that way. Just that you started your point off (that overall I agree with) in a way that strikes a nerve for a 30plus year fan of a Chapter that GW has treated as window dressing.

Nothing personal at all. I think we are probably coming from the same angle. We both want our chapter to have fair treatment (in our eyes) and would be happy if all first founding were treated equally right?

 

16 minutes ago, Dracos said:

Which is a shame because I humbly present the Raptors (and Raven Guard) as Chapters with fighting styles that make sense to someone like myself who appreciates a more modern combat style over that of WW1. 

I completely agree. By ensuring equal treatment of the first founding chapters there would be something for everyone. 

 

Maybe this new codex will manage that. I doubt it though, I think we will all lose something by being squished together. I was so hopefully in 8th when most the first founding got a supplement each.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Subtleknife

[spessmarine]

6 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I think you've lost the plot.  Ignoring the historical over-representation of the Ultramarines to complain that you have to share the limelight is a new level of hilarity.  Not to mention they have 8 named characters, whereas the other FF codex compliant chapters all have... 1.

Oh yeah, ultramarines, just the most destitute of Space Marine factions

 

Yeah, UM don't strike me the most hard up of chapters what with GW being intent on sculpting something for every possible HQ in any possible millennia

Or the whole spiritual liege can of worms, or them getting the first primarch. And so on, but I don't want to get carried away with whining about UM or wanting to bring everyone else down to the level of IH.

Speaking of, IH players had to beg GW to finally grace them with a named character while RG had their (previous) chapter master die hilariously to Tau

[Orange Knight]

I think complaining about the Ultramarines typically comes from a place of ignorance, as a lot of people are influenced by online meme culture. The same applies to the Dark Angels, and now - possibly to a larger extent - the Space Wolves. 

 

As for model and rule support, I do agree that GW need to treat the various chapters more fairly. Ideally all chapters should have 3 - 5 unique characters, and a unique unit.

 

Rules are the more egregious culprit in my opinion. If GW want to pursue the idea of truly divergent chapters such as the Space Wolves or Black Templars, they need to have a more fair system of give and take. The Black Templars should not have access to the Gladius if they already have so many unique units and even a themed detachment. These divergent chapters should also lose access to some units in exchange for the unique options. A good example of this would again be the Black Templars - they have a unique unit of Tacticus Clad close combat veterans (Sword Brothers), so they should perhaps lose access to the Bladeguard. This would indeed contribute towards making these chapters even more unique, whilst not simply being a case of "Codex Marines +1".

 

These are just my personal views on the matter of course. A more realistic wish of mine would be that GW complete the generic Primaris line this year by releasing key units such as a Jump Pack Captain, Outrider Captain, Jump Units, etc, and after that they leave Marines alone for a while, only focusing on updating Chapter Specific units as the edition progresses.

[DemonGSides]

I'm fine with unit restrictions.  I don't see how losing Gladius makes any sense though; it's just the bog standard Space Marine Indoctrination present on the gameboard.

Black Templar are DIFFERENT, yes, but they are still space marines.  I'd expect them to be able to fall back on basic training, which is similar across the entire "Faction", for lack of a better word.

I agree they shouldn't have access to Bladeguard or tactical squads or whatever.  Lean into the fluff if you're gonna play a fluffy faction.

[KJB]

I'm not a greedy man, I just want some Assault Terminators that look as good as the Leviathan ones

[Dracos]

9 hours ago, spessmarine said:

Speaking of, IH players had to beg GW to finally grace them with a named character while RG had their (previous) chapter master die hilariously to Tau

Ouch. Too soon my friend … too soon. Alas Corvin my Shadow Brother, you are greatly missed.  
 

May the Tau forever be cursed by the Emperor

[Orange Knight]

The Raven Guard are such a thematically awesome chapter, and their scheme and logo are great.

 

Shrike is a cool character, and the Chapter should be granted access to a unique unit to really flesh them out - either some improved snipers or a Jump Pack unit with unique weapons for Shrike to join.

 

That's probably how I would approach the chapters if I was running GW - each one would get a unique unit and possibly a character release over the course of the edition.

 

Imperial Fists - Aggressors with shoulder mounted Grav-Guns, new Chapter Master Lysander model (finally promoted? lol)

White Scars - Outriders with power weapons, Khan on Bike

Salamanders - Aggressors with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields, Primaris Vulkan He'stan 

Iron Hands - Terminators with Thunder Hammers and a ranged weapon, unique vehicle upgrade sprue with esoteric weapons

Ultramarines - Terminator squad with Cyclone Missile Launchers? (I have no idea for the Ultras, so I just copied a unit from the HH)

 

And we all know what units the more divergent chapters should ultimately get. The main focuse should be on the Blood Angels with new Sanguinary Guard, the Dark Angels with new Deathwing Terminators, and the Space Wolves with new Wolf Guard and perhaps a "Grey Hunters" upgrade sprue for an Assault Intercessor squad.

 

 

Anyway, that's my "Wish" list :-D

 

 

 

[Orange Knight]

I've just had a thought - if GW are smart, they might make the upcoming multipart Terminator kit with chapter specific upgrades in mind.

 

They could sell an upgrade sprue themed to specific chapters, allowing the kit to be converted to Deathwing Knights, Wolf Guard, etc

[spessmarine]

19 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

As for model and rule support, I do agree that GW need to treat the various chapters more fairly. Ideally all chapters should have 3 - 5 unique characters, and a unique unit.

 

Rules are the more egregious culprit in my opinion. If GW want to pursue the idea of truly divergent chapters such as the Space Wolves or Black Templars, they need to have a more fair system of give and take. The Black Templars should not have access to the Gladius if they already have so many unique units and even a themed detachment. These divergent chapters should also lose access to some units in exchange for the unique options. A good example of this would again be the Black Templars - they have a unique unit of Tacticus Clad close combat veterans (Sword Brothers), so they should perhaps lose access to the Bladeguard. This would indeed contribute towards making these chapters even more unique, whilst not simply being a case of "Codex Marines +1".

 

These are just my personal views on the matter of course. A more realistic wish of mine would be that GW complete the generic Primaris line this year by releasing key units such as a Jump Pack Captain, Outrider Captain, Jump Units, etc, and after that they leave Marines alone for a while, only focusing on updating Chapter Specific units as the edition progresses.

 

Honour Guard units are easy pickings for that. UM already has Victrix for example as a recent release of such a unit.

Meanwhile Firedrakes are totally still a thing in 40k

Edited August 18, 2023 by spessmarine

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

if GW are smart

 

Famous Last Words. 

 

But yeah, I'm sure the Multi-part "complex" kits for Terminators will absolutely include the ability for GW to make Chapter Upgrade clamshells with shoulder pads, Ice axes, power mauls, etc. 

 

Edit to Add:  On the flip side they'll still leave Deathwing X, Y and Z as seperate kit(s)

Edited August 18, 2023 by Tacitus

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:21 AM, Subtleknife said:

Where do Ultras get anything on the level of BT, BA, DA or SW. Sure they have the odd character but they have recently had a fair few unique character moved to legends. They arent getting their own book like the above. They lost their supplement (which I am quite bitter about) just like everyone else. I don't view gladius as an Ultra specific detachment as everyone can use it. 

 

Sure they get a bit more than say RG but they arent getting their own codex like a few SM chapters are.

 

Personally I'm of the view either all first founding get their own book or all are lumped in one big book with each first found getting a page etc like the Heresy. Keeps it nice and fair for all. I would love if now the primaris range is nearing (my guess) completion all first founding chapters get a special unit etc for their use only. 

 

 

Anyone can use any detachment..