10th edition marine release speculation / wishlisting.

[Dracos]

Sadly Gladius is the only one worth using at the moment unless your Black Templar or Deathwatch. 
 

I get marines as a whole have a crazy amount of choices compared to Tau but if that’s what the player base wants setting aside the chicken egg argument for a moment, then that’s what needs supported. Only the willfully ignorant doesn’t understand Imperial Fist and Blood Angels couldn’t be any less diverse than say the Orks and Imperial Guard. 
 

Rules that can use the same pool of models but create different play styles are needed for Marines to be properly represented in the game and to create a different play experience for their opponents. 

[jaxom]

Warforged Strike Force and Scions of Macragge are both good foundations for a Gladius Strike Force, so I'm wondering if the other Battleforce's offer some clues. 

 

Storm of Chogoris could easily be a biker detachment suitable for bike companies.

 

I think dreadnoughts may be too specific, but March of Iron could also be a hint towards a vehicle detachment. May be we'll get lucky and GW will finally put Chronos out of his misery and give him a nice nod in the form of a relic.

 

Bastion Strike Force for a detachment which leans into gravis armor makes a lot of sense now that there are two gravis characters. Perhaps more gravis characters incoming?

 

The Vanguard Army of Reknown is a shoe-in for being replaced by something like the Ravenstrike Battle Force. Phobos armor and Invictor Warsuits as far as the eye can see.

 

Collectively, that would make for five detachments in the codex, and that seems like the right number to me. Chaos Daemons for example, the one they have now plus one for each god. Tau with Mont'ka, Kayon, a Crisis Battlesuit focused one, a Pathfinder/Breacher focused, and (perhaps farfetchedly) a Kroot focused one. 

 

 

 

 

[jimbo1701]

Now we have the tyranid reveal giving us an idea of the types of detachment / number of detachments it makes things a bit easier to guess at what to expect in our codex. 

 

gladius - all rounder 

first company - terminator and veteran heavy 

vanguard - Phobos /  scout heavy

mechanised - tank / dread heavy

Assault - drop pod / flyer heavy 

Fast attack - bike / Jp / speeder heavy

 

all rampant speculation but I suspect this isn’t far off the mark. 

[Helias_Tancred]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:43 PM, Dracos said:

Sadly Gladius is the only one worth using at the moment unless your Black Templar or Deathwatch. 
 

I get marines as a whole have a crazy amount of choices compared to Tau but if that’s what the player base wants setting aside the chicken egg argument for a moment, then that’s what needs supported. Only the willfully ignorant doesn’t understand Imperial Fist and Blood Angels couldn’t be any less diverse than say the Orks and Imperial Guard. 
 

Rules that can use the same pool of models but create different play styles are needed for Marines to be properly represented in the game and to create a different play experience for their opponents. 

 

I used the Dark Angel detachment tonight and beat my Black Templar opponent. I like the Unforgiven Taste Force detachment, it's not in the great category, but it does have a few positives. Now next match I will try using a gladius detachment in order to see if I like how it works?

 

Jumping on the vanilla space marine woe-is-me bandwagon ... Ultramarines, as one of the vanilla club, has made out quite well the last few editions. It's the chapters in that club with just one real unique character (and nothing else) that imo has room to complain. I've argued they, at least, get two unique characters (with thematic special rules), and at least a thematic special rule or two for standard existing marine units, such as Raven Guard being able to give their command squad (including its characters) jump packs, and Salamanders able to use heavy flamer devastator squads, as a heavy weapon in tactical squads, or give melta guns to characters that normally can't take them, etc. I'm sure some thematic boon can be done for Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, and White Scars too. 

 

 

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

Jumping on the vanilla space marine woe-is-me bandwagon ... Ultramarines, as one of the vanilla club, has made out quite well the last few editions. It's the chapters in that club with just one real unique character (and nothing else) that imo has room to complain. 

 

 

You mean like Iron Hands? 

 

The Codex Chapters that have issues are the ones who's "niche" also has issues. The Chapters that excel are the ones that feed off of the "Flavor of the Month" - think Salamanders and Flamers or Salamanders and Melta.  Shrike (among others) waiting forever for Primaris Jump infantry they synergize with, etc.  Khan losing his bike - unless they replace Moondrakkin is still going to come back and bite White Scars.

[Helias_Tancred]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

You mean like Iron Hands? 

 

The Codex Chapters that have issues are the ones who's "niche" also has issues. The Chapters that excel are the ones that feed off of the "Flavor of the Month" - think Salamanders and Flamers or Salamanders and Melta.  Shrike (among others) waiting forever for Primaris Jump infantry they synergize with, etc.  Khan losing his bike - unless they replace Moondrakkin is still going to come back and bite White Scars.

 

Si.

 

I never quite understood GW's logic for not giving him, at the least in recent editions, a bike mounted option in the rules? Let alone a bike model? He's a really cool character of a really cool chapter, and he was done dirty.  

 

I guess they wanted him standing atop his trusty Rhino, his no-jump pack assault squad riding in the hold, while screaming Chogorian war cries as it charges into the enemy lines!?!?!?!? 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[Orange Knight]

As I mentioned earlier in this topic, I'm hoping that once the last few units needed to round out the Primaris range are released, GW has to focus on a few chapter specific characters and upgrades.

 

The Iron Hands should really have a vehicle upgrade sprue similar to what the Black Templars received. Unique, esoteric options.

 

The Khan needs a bike option, and the Scars need access to a some sort of exclusive unit upgrades they could apply to their Outriders.

 

Hopefully GW is on the same page. I think we are only a few releases away from having a complete, updated Generic line of Primaris Marines. This edition should focus on all the chapter specific options.

[Tacitus]

10 hours ago, Eilio Tiberius said:

 

Si.

 

I never quite understood GW's logic for not giving him, at the least in recent editions, a bike mounted option in the rules? Let alone a bike model? He's a really cool character of a really cool chapter, and he was done dirty.  

 

I guess they wanted him standing atop his trusty Rhino, his no-jump pack assault squad riding in the hold, while screaming Chogorian war cries as it charges into the enemy lines!?!?!?!? 

 

They transitioned him before Outriders came out if I remember.  I would expect a new Biker version out soon, and Outriders could have been expected to drop much much sooner than they did but something altered their release schedule.  But they really needed to focus on bang for buck release schedules - which includes a foot Khan to be supplemented by a Bike Khan later.  Additionally one could extrapolate from Belial that they're cutting way back on optional options for nameds.  Belial went from any of the three main Termie Loads (SB+PS, 2LC, TH/SS) to just two, and now one.   

 

Personally I think if they're going to do it they should do it right, and create some sort of combo kit i.e. Biker Character + Chapter Specific Upgrade kit, Jump Character + Chapter Specific Upgrade Kit, Terminator Character + Chapter Specific Upgrade Kit, Aggressor Chara - yadda yadda.  Then provide profile for the Chapter Master, Chief Libby, Master of Sanctity, etc yadda yadda of each of the main chapters.  To make the "official" model you buy the (armor) (character) kit and a chapter upgrade kit using Parts A, B, C, etc to make Captain Hardcastle from the Imperial Fists which uses that profile. 

 

Follow that up with some Generic Nameds - each chapter has THAT GUY - so you get (Amor) Character kit, use Parts E, F, G, and H to make Captain THAT GUY who has either your own name, or (Chapter Specific Chart List) name.  Then you fill out that matrix with Captains, Lieutenants, Libbies, etc in all the various armor/wargear collections which also solves the problem of Terminator Lieutenants for not Dark Angels Biker Captains for Dark Angels Successors (And everyone with the switch to Outriders and no more bikers) and so on. 

[Helias_Tancred]

If I were GW I'd be tempted to do a unique Chapter Master for each first founding chapter. Pedro Kantor for the Crimson Fists is an example of how I'd do it. 

[Dracos]

 … First Founding I would agree with. Even some Second Founding ;)

[jaxom]

On 8/29/2023 at 2:17 PM, Eilio Tiberius said:

 

Si.

 

I never quite understood GW's logic for not giving him, at the least in recent editions, a bike mounted option in the rules? Let alone a bike model? He's a really cool character of a really cool chapter, and he was done dirty.  

 

I guess they wanted him standing atop his trusty Rhino, his no-jump pack assault squad riding in the hold, while screaming Chogorian war cries as it charges into the enemy lines!?!?!?!? 

 

In the finest tradition of his Primarch.

If anyone can find a better picture of the Khan from the old Lion's Gate diorama, I'd be much obliged.

[Felix Antipodes]

16 hours ago, Dracos said:

 … First Founding I would agree with. Even some Second Founding ;)

It almost beggars belief that the 9 First Founding Chapters don’t all have a unique CM model, and I would extend that to all known 2nd Founding CM as well.  The only downside is that we would end up with CM who lived forever so they can protect their investment.  I would put out (for instance) an IF CM character figure, no name.  If he ascends to the Emperor’s side then he gets a head swap and continues to sell.  Just my 2c

[Galron]

Well it looks like Jump pack captains and scouts are still things. I didnt think they were going to get rid of them so the real question "is do we get sniper scouts?"

 

Jump pack assault intercessors. They are cool I guess. I am just going to address weapon loadouts accordingly and just use my many jump assault squad models which I imagine a ton of people are going to do.

 

I do hope since they continued with the jumpy captain thing, that chaos gets the equivalent. My warlord and sorceror want to be on the field again.

[Dracos]

Unless they’re carrying melta-bombs with anti-tank and priced relatively cheap I don’t see these guys doing much that assault marines didn’t do. Which is not much beside accompany a character imo. ymmv

[Orange Knight]

45 minutes ago, Dracos said:

Unless they’re carrying melta-bombs with anti-tank and priced relatively cheap I don’t see these guys doing much that assault marines didn’t do. Which is not much beside accompany a character imo. ymmv

 

I think that's the point GW are aiming for. For 20 years vehicles have struggled, and many have made this known.

 

We finally have a game in which every other infantry squad can't simply cut their way through vehicles with impunity. It does take some getting used to, as Captain Smash was a very recent phenomenon.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Orange Knight

[TheNicronomicon]

46 minutes ago, Dracos said:

Unless they’re carrying melta-bombs with anti-tank and priced relatively cheap I don’t see these guys doing much that assault marines didn’t do. Which is not much beside accompany a character imo. ymmv

Biggest difference w, ideally, be their ability to rocket into assault without getting shot to pieces or requiring a transport to do it. Could also see them providing some muscle in a Phobos-centered list. (I know they’re NOT Phobos, but if they can deep strike and push the enemy off an objective they’ll get played i think)

[Dracos]

Thing is (imo) this is a skirmish game. We call it army building but at its heart it should be a game of infantry with vehicle support not the other way around. If you want to play tank games go play Flames of War. Again imo. 
 

Chapter bias here. If Shrike could lead Reivers, I’d probably be less salty lol. Plus I just saw the Cpt. has a cape with his jetpack … just good lord why?

 

Maybe I should convert some Reivers with jet packs? 

[Galron]

3 hours ago, Dracos said:

Thing is (imo) this is a skirmish game. We call it army building but at its heart it should be a game of infantry with vehicle support not the other way around. If you want to play tank games go play Flames of War. Again imo. 
 

Chapter bias here. If Shrike could lead Reivers, I’d probably be less salty lol. Plus I just saw the Cpt. has a cape with his jetpack … just good lord why?

 

Maybe I should convert some Reivers with jet packs? 

Opportunity to paint up flaming capes?

[Tacitus]

On 8/30/2023 at 10:56 AM, Dracos said:

 … First Founding I would agree with. Even some Second Founding ;)

I wouldn't add more chapters than we already have.  Maybe let Forgeworld handle it, especially for the chapters FW made up.   Although they can easily follow along with the bits + kit recipe thing I had going above I suppose.  The important thing to us is GW rules for them.  The important thing to GW is "Official model" - so the trick is to make an "official model" using GW parts/recipes.   The Strikemaster and Talonmaster for DA set the standard, now they just need to build on it. 

11 hours ago, Dracos said:

Thing is (imo) this is a skirmish game. We call it army building but at its heart it should be a game of infantry with vehicle support not the other way around. If you want to play tank games go play Flames of War. Again imo. 
 

Chapter bias here. If Shrike could lead Reivers, I’d probably be less salty lol. Plus I just saw the Cpt. has a cape with his jetpack … just good lord why?

 

Maybe I should convert some Reivers with jet packs? 

They've spent years missing the boat on Reivers.  Had Reivers with Chutes and Graps counted as JUMP INFANTRY with a 12" move people would have been far more receptive to them.

[Dracos]

11 hours ago, Tacitus said:

I wouldn't add more chapters than we already have.  Maybe let Forgeworld handle it, especially for the chapters FW made up.   Although they can easily follow along with the bits + kit recipe thing I had going above I suppose.  The important thing to us is GW rules for them.  The important thing to GW is "Official model" - so the trick is to make an "official model" using GW parts/recipes.   The Strikemaster and Talonmaster for DA set the standard, now they just need to build on it. 

They've spent years missing the boat on Reivers.  Had Reivers with Chutes and Graps counted as JUMP INFANTRY with a 12" move people would have been far more receptive to them.

my response was a subtle joke about crimson fist not being a first founding chapter but not minding more second founding getting special characters also.