The End and the Death Part I, II, III, ...

[Krelious]

  On 1/15/2024 at 6:34 AM, Scribe said:

 

Considering we have no mention of anything like that in either of the Black Legion books?

 

Yeah, probably.

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I'd imagine we have to wait for the Horus Primarch novel because they want to do their nifty little foreshadowing stuff where the Horus Heresy lore is tied into the 31k+ era. Like we saw in the End and the Death vol 2 the Abbadon tarot card stuff and the dark king.  I find it frustrating to deal with because the time period between the other B.L. books was 4 years and this one is now minimum 6 years. I mean I think its going to be tough for ADB to wrap everthing up in 1 book if its just going to be a trilogy.   

[Alpharius902]

Longer excerpt is up on FNAC - https://www.fnac.com/livre-numerique/a19279565/Dan-Abnett-The-End-And-The-Death-Volume-III#FORMAT=ebook (ePub)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Perturabo's just been sitting on system's edge along with the rest of the IV Legion's fleet. Also has a bit of an insight on his path to "become a perfect weapon," I'm assuming this is going to be his path toward daemonhood. Also affirms that he hates Horus as much as his father because his brother lied to him about the outcome of the Siege.

 

[DarkChaplain]

Jesus, what?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Perturabo is still IN SYSTEM after leaving HOW MANY novels ago? They left in Mortis, right? Which would've been weeks if not months ago? I lost track of the precise timeline along the way.

 

Next Abnett is going to tell me that FULGRIM still exists on Terra, after having been ignored since I believe Saturnine...

 

And it looks like it is as I feared: Lorgar is a no-show for the entire Siege, unless he's unmentioned by the Dramatis Personae. Both Guilliman and Perturabo are missing from the list as well, despite the Interlude chapters at the start featuring them... Makes me wonder if we will actually see the arrival of Russ and the Lion at all, by the epilogue.

 

But at least the book appears to be down to ~50 chapters. That's something. Now we're probably getting in-chapter jumps like with the Fragments chapters instead of separate chapters for every PoV, I suppose.

 

 

[Dornfist]

  On 1/16/2024 at 4:59 AM, Alpharius902 said:

Longer excerpt is up on FNAC - https://www.fnac.com/livre-numerique/a19279565/Dan-Abnett-The-End-And-The-Death-Volume-III#FORMAT=ebook (ePub)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Perturabo's just been sitting on system's edge along with the rest of the IV Legion's fleet. Also has a bit of an insight on his path to "become a perfect weapon," I'm assuming this is going to be his path toward daemonhood. Also affirms that he hates Horus as much as his father because his brother lied to him about the outcome of the Siege.

 

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Huh...odd...I thought Perty left the system since he quit the Siege back in "Mortis". Does this mean we will be reminded Fulgrim is a thing too?

 

Also, I have a prediction after listening to how colossal the final duel will be from Abnett's latest interview: Emperor v. Horus fight will be a Giant Chicken style fight!!! Havoc everywhere!!!!

[Dornfist]

  On 1/15/2024 at 5:10 PM, DarkChaplain said:

He just couldn't stop himself from killing off another relevant Sons of Horus characters with actual development from other authors so he wouldn't need to bother with them in the final 3-tome-book :^)

 

That mention of Endryd last page really ruffled my feathers again. Saturnine ended so many interesting characters and their arcs.

People were upset back in the day when the Alpha Legion got their major plotline ended in a brutal way without seeing it to an actual conclusion in Praetorian of Dorn (even though not reaching a proper conclusion to their convoluted plans, with them spiting their own face out of hubris, was the point), but Saturnine just axed many characters unceremoniously, and thus also narrowed the range of available characters for the remaining books. Seeing all the newly invented characters in The End and the Death, and the lip service paid to and strange turns taken by established characters, it's pretty clear that Abnett just doesn't really know what to do with these figures.

 

So he either brings in his old creations or resets them back in development to where he wants them, or makes up new ones without a legacy at the finish line.

 

And I tell ya, if he manages to bring in Guilliman and actually mentions Euten without acknowledging her death en route to Terra, I'll flip a table.

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I loved Endryd Haar so much!!! It was such a shame for his character to end just like that...I personally loved "Praetorian of Dorn" and as you pointed out, it was their convoluted plans that shot them in the foot. I'm surprised many people disliked the ending of that arc which was great and for me also showed how Dorn has learned to be tricksy too due to how this war has forced him to be other things he despises as well.

[DukeLeto69]

Perty’s fleet tried to leave the system but the clocks stopped and they were stuck at the end of Pluto’s orbital plane just hoping for death!

[Rob P]

  On 1/16/2024 at 11:13 AM, DarkChaplain said:

 

 

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.. unless he's unmentioned by the Dramatis Personae. Both Guilliman and Perturabo are missing from the list as well, despite the Interlude chapters at the start featuring them...

 

 

 

 

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I kinda wish more were missing. Completely helps my reading comprehension if I have some clue as to which characters are important to keep tabs on and which are fodder/throwaway.

Edited January 16, 2024 by Rob P

[Dornfist]

  On 1/16/2024 at 12:03 PM, DukeLeto69 said:

Perty’s fleet tried to leave the system but the clocks stopped and they were stuck at the end of Pluto’s orbital plane just hoping for death!

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Honestly yes, but that just makes me more mad about how much they need to drive the point home that time has stopped...like no sh*t Sherlock...we get it already...

[System Sound]

  On 1/16/2024 at 2:07 PM, Dornfist said:

Honestly yes, but that just makes me more mad about how much they need to drive the point home that time has stopped...like no sh*t Sherlock...we get it already...

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But the chronos have stopped. Time ceased to flow. Its the END! The finality of it all. Death is coming for everyone. Death is coming for everything. It's no longer the beginning of the end. This is the End! Death! The End and the Death. And Abnett has a new thesaurus! Fear his mighty tome and despair all that shall cast their gaze upon it...

[darkhorse0607]

Ok. I said I would wait for salt but this longer excerpt combined with the issues I already had with the BL one about Guilliman irk me. Maybe it's because the Iron Warriors are my favorite legion. Maybe it's because their time to shine in the Siege after running around with the Emperor's Children and Tallarn was taken because it was written by Gav Thorpe (I'll save the TED talk on that book for another time)

 

But.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This is ANOTHER plotline that Abnett is putting into the last book that didn't need to exist because it was a fine ending to them just leaving the Siege after Perturabo came to the realization four books ago that Horus was using him like the Emperor did and that this was a victory for him alone/chaos, not the legions, not anyone but them.

 

No. Of course we have to drag another closed plotline back and make it worse. Leaving the Siege I get. But Perturabo knows what's coming. He knows all of the legions are coming to Terra, and whether Horus wins or the Emperor, the Sol System isn't a place he would want his legion to be. Abnett's saying, that one of the most logic driven Primarchs is just going to sit and pout for a while because "he has time." Why even have it in system? Why couldn't this whole thing just be a reflection of Perturabo while they sail away and he is locating a place to set up the Iron Cage?

 

On top of that, it states in the excerpt that they can see everything still because they aren't bothered by the Warp interference like the loyalist legions are, that they can use the "data" to see and maneuver through it. So wouldn't that mean they'd also have seen the massive Ultramarines fleet sailing in system as well?

 

Plus you have the fact that Perturabo's whole thing since he got wounded by Fulgrim, which is explicitly stated in Slaves to Darkness, is that he is doing everything he can to break the ties of the warp on him, but now because he's the "perfect weapon" he wants to play with anathemas from the Word Bearers

 

 

 

Just. Why.

[DukeLeto69]

  On 1/16/2024 at 4:33 PM, darkhorse0607 said:

Ok. I said I would wait for salt but this longer excerpt combined with the issues I already had with the BL one about Guilliman irk me. Maybe it's because the Iron Warriors are my favorite legion. Maybe it's because their time to shine in the Siege after running around with the Emperor's Children and Tallarn was taken because it was written by Gav Thorpe (I'll save the TED talk on that book for another time)

 

But.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This is ANOTHER plotline that Abnett is putting into the last book that didn't need to exist because it was a fine ending to them just leaving the Siege after Perturabo came to the realization four books ago that Horus was using him like the Emperor did and that this was a victory for him alone/chaos, not the legions, not anyone but them.

 

No. Of course we have to drag another closed plotline back and make it worse. Leaving the Siege I get. But Perturabo knows what's coming. He knows all of the legions are coming to Terra, and whether Horus wins or the Emperor, the Sol System isn't a place he would want his legion to be. Abnett's saying, that one of the most logic driven Primarchs is just going to sit and pout for a while because "he has time." Why even have it in system? Why couldn't this whole thing just be a reflection of Perturabo while they sail away and he is locating a place to set up the Iron Cage?

 

On top of that, it states in the excerpt that they can see everything still because they aren't bothered by the Warp interference like the loyalist legions are, that they can use the "data" to see and maneuver through it. So wouldn't that mean they'd also have seen the massive Ultramarines fleet sailing in system as well?

 

Plus you have the fact that Perturabo's whole thing since he got wounded by Fulgrim, which is explicitly stated in Slaves to Darkness, is that he is doing everything he can to break the ties of the warp on him, but now because he's the "perfect weapon" he wants to play with anathemas from the Word Bearers

 

 

 

Just. Why.

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Execution of a plot point/line aside, you cannot assume the inclusion of Perty and lads was Abnett’s unilateral decision! He may be a/the big hitter but he is still a writer for hire servicing a client.

[Scribe]

The rage will be glorious!

[Scribe]

In all seriousness, I may get this in digital just to get it over with ASAP.

[Rob P]

  On 1/16/2024 at 4:33 PM, darkhorse0607 said:

Ok. I said I would wait for salt but this longer excerpt combined with the issues I already had with the BL one about Guilliman irk me. Maybe it's because the Iron Warriors are my favorite legion. Maybe it's because their time to shine in the Siege after running around with the Emperor's Children and Tallarn was taken because it was written by Gav Thorpe (I'll save the TED talk on that book for another time)

 

But.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

This is ANOTHER plotline that Abnett is putting into the last book that didn't need to exist because it was a fine ending to them just leaving the Siege after Perturabo came to the realization four books ago that Horus was using him like the Emperor did and that this was a victory for him alone/chaos, not the legions, not anyone but them.

 

No. Of course we have to drag another closed plotline back and make it worse. Leaving the Siege I get. But Perturabo knows what's coming. He knows all of the legions are coming to Terra, and whether Horus wins or the Emperor, the Sol System isn't a place he would want his legion to be. Abnett's saying, that one of the most logic driven Primarchs is just going to sit and pout for a while because "he has time." Why even have it in system? Why couldn't this whole thing just be a reflection of Perturabo while they sail away and he is locating a place to set up the Iron Cage?

 

On top of that, it states in the excerpt that they can see everything still because they aren't bothered by the Warp interference like the loyalist legions are, that they can use the "data" to see and maneuver through it. So wouldn't that mean they'd also have seen the massive Ultramarines fleet sailing in system as well?

 

Plus you have the fact that Perturabo's whole thing since he got wounded by Fulgrim, which is explicitly stated in Slaves to Darkness, is that he is doing everything he can to break the ties of the warp on him, but now because he's the "perfect weapon" he wants to play with anathemas from the Word Bearers

 

 

 

Just. Why.

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I'm hoping for a 'buddy movie' novel with Perturabo and Lorgar finding their way in a post Heresy world. It would not not follow the plot of wedding crashers

[EverythingIsGreat]

From the TEATD extract

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"Perturabo reads the warp as clearly as any data."

 

? Since when? Have I missed something?

[Scribe]

  On 1/16/2024 at 7:20 PM, EverythingIsGreat said:

From the TEATD extract

  Reveal hidden contents

"Perturabo reads the warp as clearly as any data."

 

? Since when? Have I missed something?

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Since the final volume of the final book, of the final series of a decades long work.

[darkhorse0607]

  On 1/16/2024 at 8:37 PM, Scribe said:

 

Since the final volume of the final book, of the final series of a decades long work.

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It'll be in a novella don't worry it's all according to the plan set out in the Great Siege Planning Meeting of 2017

[Taliesin]

I actually thought that excerpt was very exciting and excellent.

[Vazzy]

  On 1/16/2024 at 9:20 PM, Taliesin said:

I actually thought that excerpt was very exciting and excellent.

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I liked it too but I’ve enjoyed every volume of TEATD so far. I also don’t necessarily go into books looking for something to be mad about so idk. 
 

Excited for it either way. 

[Nagashsnee]

  On 1/16/2024 at 4:54 PM, DukeLeto69 said:

Execution of a plot point/line aside, you cannot assume the inclusion of Perty and lads was Abnett’s unilateral decision! He may be a/the big hitter but he is still a writer for hire servicing a client.

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Like on a theoretical level I agree with you, on  practical level NOTHING in part 1 or 2 has made me believe ANYONE in BL/GW has done anything to control/edit the contents of this book other then calculating how much extra money NOT controlling/editing the contents of the draft and just releasing 3x 700 page volumes rather then the originally planned book 8 would net them.

 

Edit: Το echo others i am looking forward to this, i just want it to be over and honestly while a huge not fan of what we gotin first two parts, its better then the MEGA TWISTS i feared. Between Saturnine-Warhack and Echoes i got 3 damn near perfect Siege books and that will do me.  

Edited January 17, 2024 by Nagashsnee

[DukeLeto69]

  On 1/17/2024 at 6:27 AM, Nagashsnee said:

 

Like on a theoretical level I agree with you, on  practical level NOTHING in part 1 or 2 has made me believe ANYONE in BL/GW has done anything to control/edit the contents of this book other then calculating how much extra money NOT controlling/editing the contents of the draft and just releasing 3x 700 page volumes rather then the originally planned book 8 would net them.

 

Edit: Το echo others i am looking forward to this, i just want it to be over and honestly while a huge not fan of what we gotin first two parts, its better then the MEGA TWISTS i feared. Between Saturnine-Warhack and Echoes i got 3 damn near perfect Siege books and that will do me.  

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Truth is WE will never know but I believe there is no way Abnett remembered all the plotlines resolved or unresolved. I cannot believe for a moment there wasn’t a list/spreadsheet and someone (Nick Kyme?) saying to Abnett “it would be good to wrap these up” and then when the books grew to perhaps 2.5 volumes asking “can you pad this further so we can release as three volumes? More money for you and more money for us! Any ideas what to add in?”

 

While others can believe what they want, I simply cannot accept the concept a company like GW (based on how they behave) would relinquish editorial control and let any writer, inc Abnett, do as they pleased. For ME the bloat is a collective responsibility. 

 

And it is frustrating because having read Vol 1 and almost finished Vol 2 there is a damn fine novel contained in there if you strip out the bloat.

[Scribe]

  On 1/17/2024 at 8:07 AM, DukeLeto69 said:

Truth is WE will never know but I believe there is no way Abnett remembered all the plotlines resolved or unresolved. I cannot believe for a moment there wasn’t a list/spreadsheet and someone (Nick Kyme?) saying to Abnett “it would be good to wrap these up” and then when the books grew to perhaps 2.5 volumes asking “can you pad this further so we can release as three volumes? More money for you and more money for us! Any ideas what to add in?”

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Whats been resolved in Volume's 1 and 2?

How much did Abnett rehash in Volume's 1 and 2?

 

He hasn't resolved anything, in what, 1200 pages?

[Fedor]

Regarding Lorgar showing up or not, remember that Abnett gave us Chekhov's disgruntled sniper. I'm 50/50 that Lorgar does eventually show up, only to get gibbed by Narek. A necessary fan-service coup de grace after 9+ books of the imperials being slowly, grimly driven back with no such moments in sight; Abnett's surprise epilogue, masterfully calculated and paced for maximum shock and impact.

 

But wait...what's that i hear? every single book except Solar War and Mortis have their considerable share of moments like that, including against every other traitor primarch, so doing such a thing would already be heavily diluted? That's a relief then, I can't imagine Dan would feel the need to overegg the pudding....

[TrevorLoLz]

  On 1/17/2024 at 7:20 PM, Fedor said:

Regarding Lorgar showing up or not, remember that Abnett gave us Chekhov's disgruntled sniper. I'm 50/50 that Lorgar does eventually show up, only to get gibbed by Narek. A necessary fan-service coup de grace after 9+ books of the imperials being slowly, grimly driven back with no such moments in sight; Abnett's surprise epilogue, masterfully calculated and paced for maximum shock and impact.

 

But wait...what's that i hear? every single book except Solar War and Mortis have their considerable share of moments like that, including against every other traitor primarch, so doing such a thing would already be heavily diluted? That's a relief then, I can't imagine Dan would feel the need to overegg the pudding....

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Say what you want, but the concept of Lorgar landing on Terra, gloating over Horus's failure, internal monologues aplenty, only to have his head blown open by Narek would be excellent.

Of course, that can't happen because we know that Lorgar becomes a Daemon Prince.

[TheArtilleryman]

  On 1/18/2024 at 4:38 AM, TrevorLoLz said:

 

Say what you want, but the concept of Lorgar landing on Terra, gloating over Horus's failure, internal monologues aplenty, only to have his head blown open by Narek would be excellent.

Of course, that can't happen because we know that Lorgar becomes a Daemon Prince.

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Well … it could happen but not kill him of course… imagine him limping back to his lander with half a face