The End and the Death Part I, II, III, ...

[DukeLeto69]

5 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

The murky monarch. The stygian sovereign. The pitch-dark prince. The caliginous crown...

The Obsidian Overlord 

[EverythingIsGreat]

Giving Synonym Dan a run for his money.

 

Anyway, eg:

 

[Nagashsnee]

So if the lion is roaring in defiance of the dark king, and the dark king is who we know he is....LION IS A TRAITOR IN BOOK 3 CONFIRMED! 

[EverythingIsGreat]

That's where Dan comes in handy. Seeing that the GW uses a limited vocabulary and keeps regurgitating the same few terms in a wide variety of situations.

Handy Dan.

[DarkChaplain]

While the entire text is uppercaps, only the first letter in each line and the L of the Lion are actually capitalized. So Abaddon appears to be a generic dark king rather than a major Dark King, at least. It's a descriptor, not a title (like 'the Lion' is)

Edited November 27, 2023 by DarkChaplain

[Nagashsnee]

7 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

While the entire text is uppercaps, only the first letter in each line and the L of the Lion are actually capitalized. So Abaddon appears to be a generic dark king rather than a major Dark King, at least. It's a descriptor, not a title (like 'the Lion' is)

Look man, it was a ice world, it was cold, his armors heating hasn't work in over 2 millennia. Don't get all judge on how generic, major or minor his 'dark king'  is, don't be that person. 

 

Abaddon has assured me that his 'dark king' is not only Major, but can also be described as Gigantic, Monolithic,Lovecraftian, Humongous, of Near Mythical Stature, a Freak of both the Natural and Unnatural realms capable of taming all 8 know dimensions, a being that would have Dan Abnett spiting out synonyms like Nick Kyme is about to confiscate his thesaurus and the only thing left in the arsenal of Chaos that can  strike fear into the heart of the false Emperor. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[DukeLeto69]

1 hour ago, Nagashsnee said:

Look man, it was a ice world, it was cold, his armors heating hasn't work in over 2 millennia. Don't get all judge on how generic, major or minor his 'dark king'  is, don't be that person. 

 

Abaddon has assured me that his 'dark king' is not only Major, but can also be described as Gigantic, Monolithic,Lovecraftian, Humongous, of Near Mythical Stature, a Freak of both the Natural and Unnatural realms capable of taming all 8 know dimensions, a being that would have Dan Abnett spiting out synonyms like Nick Kyme is about to confiscate his thesaurus and the only thing left in the arsenal of Chaos that can  strike fear into the heart of the false Emperor. 

That just put a whole new spin on the Horus Heresy!

[System Sound]

The Dark King is mentioned.

 

This forum:

[Urauloth]

It's capitalised in Vigilus and its attendant microfiction, e.g. "The Dark King is coming. His blade has two edges."

 

("I want to believe" poster with the Vengeful Spirit instead of a UFO goes here)

[EverythingIsGreat]

2 hours ago, Urauloth said:

It's capitalised in Vigilus and its attendant microfiction, e.g. "The Dark King is coming. His blade has two edges."

 

("I want to believe" poster with the Vengeful Spirit instead of a UFO goes here)

 

May be one edge with two blades, as in blade-guard-hilt-guard-blade. That way he simultaneously duels with a guy in front and another in the back.

 

How long before Reborn Roboute finds Awakened Lion, grabs a vial of Sang blood from Dante and goes back to Ultramar with both for Imperium Tertius

[EverythingIsGreat]

I mean with Sang-Vial as Rex Tenebris

[DukeLeto69]

3 hours ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

How long before Reborn Roboute finds Awakened Lion, grabs a vial of Sang blood from Dante and goes back to Ultramar with both for Imperium Tertius

That is in tEatD vol 41,112 I think

Edited November 28, 2023 by DukeLeto69

[darkhorse0607]

5 hours ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

 

 

 

How long before Reborn Roboute finds Awakened Lion, grabs a vial of Sang blood from Dante and goes back to Ultramar with both for Imperium Tertius

 

Don't you dare. I have nightmares about a WHC article titled "SANGIUNIUS REBORN: LOOK AT HOW THE ANGEL HAS RISEN AND RETURNED IN HUMANITIES HOUR OF NEED"

 

I know it's coming in some fashion because of money but still

[Nagashsnee]

16 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

I know it's coming in some fashion because of money but still

I dont know, i like to think they know after a point they are weakening the IP and that any short term profits will be paid later. Things like the missing legions and dead primarchs i like to believe will remain sacred a while longer. 

 

Why make sanguinius when a plastic thunderhawk will print you money?

[EverythingIsGreat]

If memory serves, I believe the initial impetus for the missing legions was a (never-produced) supplement that would allow gamers to make their own SM units with custom colors and heraldry and use them in expanded WH30/40K scenarios. The idea apparently came from the (real-world) Roman Legion that disappeared in the Black Forest, and from other historical examples of campaign forces going native.

 

EDIT: After a quick search, I was mistaken. It was Legio IX, and disappeared in Northern England/Scotland

The Roman Ninth Legion's mysterious loss  

Edited November 29, 2023 by EverythingIsGreat

[TrevorLoLz]

On 11/29/2023 at 10:22 PM, Nagashsnee said:

I dont know, i like to think they know after a point they are weakening the IP and that any short term profits will be paid later. Things like the missing legions and dead primarchs i like to believe will remain sacred a while longer. 

 

Why make sanguinius when a plastic thunderhawk will print you money?

 

I agree with this to an extent - I would have thought the same about the return of Guilliman and The Lion, but they brought them back.

 

Similar situation with the Horus Heresy - never thought that they would have gone all in like they have, but they did.

 

I believe that if GW thinks it can make X amount of money from resurrecting Sanguinius, they will do so. While fan born authors like ADB and Wraight may respect the IP, the execs at GW only respect it insofar as it makes money. This is to be expected, even if disappointing.

 

Look at how they canned Warhammer Fantasy Battles - 30 years of IP built up there, almost entirely thrown in the bin overnight in favour of making a new game. Warhammer Fantasy IP was not making as much money as they wanted, so they started again. 

[Noserenda]

Not been following the thread for a while, but chatting to one of my group at a Christmas party tonight, he has had several copies of this book destroy themselves in the post, i guess under their own weight as much as poor handling? Did anyone else have something similar?

[DarkChaplain]

8 hours ago, TrevorLoLz said:

 

I agree with this to an extent - I would have thought the same about the return of Guilliman and The Lion, but they brought them back.

 

Similar situation with the Horus Heresy - never thought that they would have gone all in like they have, but they did.

 

I believe that if GW thinks it can make X amount of money from resurrecting Sanguinius, they will do so. While fan born authors like ADB and Wraight may respect the IP, the execs at GW only respect it insofar as it makes money. This is to be expected, even if disappointing.

 

Look at how they canned Warhammer Fantasy Battles - 30 years of IP built up there, almost entirely thrown in the bin overnight in favour of making a new game. Warhammer Fantasy IP was not making as much money as they wanted, so they started again. 

 

Except both the Guilliman AND the Lion have had the "they're going to return any moment now, wait for it"-status built in for decades. We never actually moved past the Black Crusade / 999.M41 outside of some select novels, but both of these have been supported by the fluff for over half the game's lifetime.

 

Sanguinius is dead. Proper dead. Not "put into stasis moments before death", not "lying sleeping/comatose in a secret cave, being watched by mysterious entities". Just properly dead. With the psychic crystallization of his death-cry aboard the Vengeful Spirit. With his death tearing his Legion a new one for ten millennia, and a herald for the tabletop with backing the fluff.

 

They'd have to bend A LOT of their lore out of shape to bring Sanguinius back, or actually name anything about the Missing Legions. Meanwhile, they could bring back Russ, Jaghatai, Corax, Vulkan, or even Dorn (even though I'd hate that). All of them have some sort of hook to bring them back already. Sanguinius does not, and neither does Ferrus with how it's being presented in TEATD Vol.2.

 

As for them killing off WHFB, that decision happened under the previous Kirby management, was short-sighted as all hell (which also brought us many other blunders, not least of all a price development that'd put energy prices after the invasion of Ukraine to shame) and tanked the Fantasy productline. AoS has since recovered, but not until they brought on numerous deep-seated reforms under the new management and drastically expanded the scope of the setting and tie-in support.

....and now they've been working for the past few years to bring WHFB back properly, because they realized that they messed up.

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

With the psychic crystallization of his death-cry aboard the Vengeful Spirit. 

 

His death gurgle on his own blood, you mean.

 

Sanguinius is plenty 'back', it's just always couched as a spooky vision before he delivers whatever inspiring near-death monologue the character at hand needs to hear.

 

[Lord_Caerolion]

I’m kind of expecting Horus to put Sanguinius through a Groundhog Day scenario as a means of messing with the Emperor, possibly including the Emperor in it as well, to prove his superiority.
Sanguinius’ current death doesn’t quite seem to reach the level of “sends psychic shockwaves throughout time”.

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

Sanguinius’ current death doesn’t quite seem to reach the level of “sends psychic shockwaves throughout time”.

 

Which would strongly suggest the trigger for the Black Rage isn't Sanguinius, and all the suggestions otherwise - and those psychic crystal things - are the product of something else. It's all just myth twisted through the lens of history, stories told after the fact to make sense of an event. So subversive!

[Preliminary Bombardment]

So about half way through this, it's a slog. I'm about 350 pages in and very little has happened since the end of the last book. He's giving every plotline plenty of space but it's Robert Jordan levels of bloat.

 

Spoiler

He's given what feels like 10 write ups of space and time getting corrupted. We got it the first time.

 

I'll go back to page 13 and catch up with everyone else's thoughts once I'm done.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That’s what kills me the most about this book, I think. There IS an amazing story in here, it’s just buried under mountains of endless repetition and reminders that physics, see if you can follow along, are in fact broken. Then another character finding that physics is broken. Then a minichapter about Traitors coming out of nowhere because physics is broken. Then a chapter about that second character telling his compatriots that this may be the end and the death of physics. 
 

Strip away all the padding. Cut the vignettes of new characters introduced solely to freak out over Door Where Door Wasn’t. Cut it back to actual story, and you’ve got a functioning novel. 
I liked the Dark King stuff, I just wish it was actually built up before this. I know we had the Dark King mentioned in Curze’s tarot decks, but it was never stated to be out of the ordinary. Now it just seems like everybody’s decided to freak the hell out over something that previously was just some obscure trivia, and now is being portrayed as always having had reality-shattering implications. 
They should have had it that Curze ONLY ever drew the Dark King when foretelling this particular future, or something. Now it just feels like people going “OH MY EMPEROR this card spread shows the dreaded Nine of Clubs! Truly no card has ever had such dire implications! Once, you see, it meant you didn’t get a Royal Flush, but now? Reality itself shall come apart under the unforgiving gaze of the Nine of Clubs!”

[Nagashsnee]

Ok so.

 

Spoiler

I dont think Abnett is done killing Sanguinius.

1) His sword does not break, but we know it breaks during the fight and its shards become items of power used by the black legion. Edit and the chapter as its a playable upgrade in 40k where the fluff blurb says it shattered against the warmasters armor. So it needs to break or its a major oopsie. 

2) No highlander warp energy release, in every primarch kill i can think of when the primarch dies dies energy is released, usually in the form of a bright light. 

3) No death scream, sanguinius death scream echoing in the warp is something i heave read about in many places over the years, here he goes out in silence.

4) No black rage which ties into 2 for me, its hinted at, but again we know this happens at the moment of death like in the case of the other primarchs and how they affected their legions. 

5) Horus and the author make a big point about how in control of time/the material Horus is, and also how crazy horus has gotten. Horus is also actually bitter about his offer/gifts being turned down.

 

Now, on its own none of the above is enough to think we are getting warp/death porn 2 electroo bugalou, but all together i think it points to Horus using his powers to kill Sanguinius again and again. Maybe like Fulgrim and Manus he will try to find a way for Sanguinius to accept his offer and kill him as he refuses each time in turn. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[System Sound]

31 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

Ok so.

 

  Hide contents

I dont think Abnett is done killing Sanguinius.

1) His sword does not break, but we know it breaks during the fight and its shards become items of power used by the black legion.

2) No highlander warp energy release, in every primarch kill i can think of when the primarch dies dies energy is released, usually in the form of a bright light. 

3) No death scream, sanguinius death scream echoing in the warp is something i heave read about in many places over the years, here he goes out in silence.

4) No black rage which ties into 2 for me, its hinted at, but again we know this happens at the moment of death like in the case of the other primarchs and how they affected their legions. 

5) Horus and the author make a big point about how in control of time/the material Horus is, and also how crazy horus has gotten. Horus is also actually bitter about his offer/gifts being turned down.

 

Now, on its own none of the above is enough to think we are getting warp/death porn 2 electroo bugalou, but all together i think it points to Horus using his powers to kill Sanguinius again and again. Maybe like Fulgrim and Manus he will try to find a way for Sanguinius to accept his offer and kill him as he refuses each time in turn. 

 

 

This is why I hate this book. It's completely pointless and is there just to milk more money...