The End and the Death Part I, II, III, ...

[cheywood]

I finished up Volume 2 yesterday. Unlike many others I’m still loving the overwrought absurdity of it all. I think I prefer Volume 1 - the surprise of it all was more tangible, the chapters less truncated - but this is still an incredible work. 

 

These books are undoubtedly flawed, but that’s part of what I love about them. 40k as a setting is filled with books that play it very safe - they follow cliched mil-sci plots with cookie cutter characters and bland prose - I would say they’re, in many cases, more commerce than art, afraid to really challenge the setting or step beyond the comfortable confines of what’s come before. This book is the antithesis of that. It’s Abnett saying ‘forget everything else, let’s make something weird and unexpected, something unique and unforgettable.’ Is it his best work? No, restraint is many an artist’s friend. But is it his most singular? Oh without a doubt. The strangeness of TE&TD puts it in another category next to the more nakedly familiar inspirations of his other series. 
 

I totally get why that’s not for everyone, but I have a long established weakness for purple prose and strange, incomparable stories. In the end (and the death) I think the biggest issue, philosophically, with this closing trilogy is that it feels entirely disconnected from the rest of the series. Even though I love it I have to acknowledge that. It’s like Marvel ending the MCU with a black and white film featuring minimal action. The film itself might be good or bad, but the lack of stylistic continuity is fundamentally damaging in and of itself. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by cheywood

[Fire Golem]

I just finished it this morning, and I dunno if it’s just I knew what to expect this time, I enjoyed it a lot more than the first one. There are obviously problems with it, 34 pages on a forums worth apparently, but I had a good time with this one and after a slow start I read the last third in one sitting earlier. I’m actually looking forward to the last bit now. The vibes, purple prose, weirdness, short chapters etc really worked for me, this time. 
 

Honestly, and I in no way want to diminish anyone else’s experience and issues with the book are inarguable really, but it’s bizarre reading through such a negative thread when I actually had a really good time, especially when I was expecting to be more in line with the general consensus here after my experience with part 1. I think Roomskys ‘it’s an abomination I happened to enjoy’ is probably accurate and they just have more self awareness than me!

 

Overall though I do feel it’s a massive shame that the finale of such a long, storied series of such peaks and troughs isn’t being enjoyed (so far at least, and I doubt much will change with part 3) by quite a few readers here. And I think I would’ve enjoyed a more standard finale in line with the rest of the series just as much, and one without the issues of these even where they worked for me. Roll on part 3 so I can make up my mind on how I feel about it all. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by fire golem

[caladancid]

21 hours ago, fire golem said:

I just finished it this morning, and I dunno if it’s just I knew what to expect this time, I enjoyed it a lot more than the first one. There are obviously problems with it, 34 pages on a forums worth apparently, but I had a good time with this one and after a slow start I read the last third in one sitting earlier. I’m actually looking forward to the last bit now. The vibes, purple prose, weirdness, short chapters etc really worked for me, this time. 
 

Honestly, and I in no way want to diminish anyone else’s experience and issues with the book are inarguable really, but it’s bizarre reading through such a negative thread when I actually had a really good time, especially when I was expecting to be more in line with the general consensus here after my experience with part 1. I think Roomskys ‘it’s an abomination I happened to enjoy’ is probably accurate and they just have more self awareness than me!

 

Overall though I do feel it’s a massive shame that the finale of such a long, storied series of such peaks and troughs isn’t being enjoyed (so far at least, and I doubt much will change with part 3) by quite a few readers here. And I think I would’ve enjoyed a more standard finale in line with the rest of the series just as much, and one without the issues of these even where they worked for me. Roll on part 3 so I can make up my mind on how I feel about it all. 

 

This thread did actually get more positive as more people....read the book. 

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, caladancid said:

 

This thread did actually get more positive as more people....read the book. 

 

Did it? None of the major criticism really changed, it just had a bit more context and a feeling of resigned acceptance that this is what we are getting.

 

1. Its bloated.

2. The characterization is all over the place.

3. The pivotal characters had little to no development.

4. The 'big reveal' came and went inside a few micro chapters.

5. A mess of minor plot lines are doing (it would appear) nothing.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

1. Its bloated.

2. The characterization is all over the place.

3. The pivotal characters had little to no development.

4. The 'big reveal' came and went inside a few micro chapters.

5. A mess of minor plot lines are doing (it would appear) nothing.

 

1. Agreed but it is the end of a series over a decade and a half in the making. I can't find it in myself to begrudge teasing it out just a little longer.

 

2. The main characters seem consistent with Abnett's earlier works in the main. There is a problem in that certain characters have been handled with varying levels of skill be different authors over the Heresy's run but that is not unique to this book.

 

3. We are in the endgame. I don't see much room for extra development. For better or worse, these are the characters as they stand entering humanity's final hours.

 

4. Yes, I would have preferred a bit more focus on the Dark King development.

 

5. I will reserve judgement on this until we get to volume 3. The Argonauts seem to have completed their mission. Whether any of the remaining members have a role to play in volume 3 remains to be seen. I would assume they do since there are no known Perpetuals in 40K and Oll's place in the lore goes all the way to back to year dot.

[Scribe]

43 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

1. Agreed but it is the end of a series over a decade and a half in the making. I can't find it in myself to begrudge teasing it out just a little longer.

 

I've yet to see an argument that 'the clocks, the clocks are, the clocks are stopped' is not both unrelentingly bloated, and wholly useless. There is bloat, and then there is whatever Volume 1 was.

 

44 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

2. The main characters seem consistent with Abnett's earlier works in the main. There is a problem in that certain characters have been handled with varying levels of skill be different authors over the Heresy's run but that is not unique to this book.

 

Probably. His Remembrancers, Keeler, pretty much every character I would gladly skip over. Amit is the big one for me, the Custodians, the Primarchs? Not a fan of how he changed them.

 

45 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

3. We are in the endgame. I don't see much room for extra development. For better or worse, these are the characters as they stand entering humanity's final hours.

 

I can agree with this, there isnt much room, which is why his choice to not drive some of these characters, or to introduce them in Saturnine, is so weird. Almost like there is an ulterior motive to leverage them later in a different series...

 

47 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

5. I will reserve judgement on this until we get to volume 3. The Argonauts seem to have completed their mission. Whether any of the remaining members have a role to play in volume 3 remains to be seen. I would assume they do since there are no known Perpetuals in 40K and Oll's place in the lore goes all the way to back to year dot.

 

Yeah its all we can do really. I said the same after Volume 1, "Maybe Book 2 saves it." when Volume 2 made V1 even more pointless.

 

Wont be long now, Jan 30 for V3 isnt it?

[Nagashsnee]

One other factor is how one reads the book, I feel its one of those books that reading it fast/in rapid succession is detrimental to the experience as it will just serve to highlight the repetitions and micro chapters.  

 

While reading it in small doses over a longer period will I feel vastly improve the reading experience. Repetition becomes less of a issue and micro chapters serve to always keep the focus on the now and not remembering ling running storylines/plots. 

 

So the people (like me) who sat down and read it in a short period of time and someone who has gone thru it over a period of weeks/months might have very different experiences. 

[Rob P]

Finally finished this last night. The first third is an awful slog and the short repetitive chapters don't help it. I feel a much punchier book could have been put together around the 400 page mark.

 

I had a better opinion by the end than from that first third.

 

There were only two features that really shined for me:

 

Spoiler

(1) The inclusion of Ferrus Manus or his spectre or whatever it was.

 

(2) The chapter where Horus has completely destroyed Sanguinius; it's so devoid of heroism.

 

Could have binned the chapters with Rann, Amit, Thane, most of the Custodes characters, the Night Lord dude, (arguably) Abaddon, and so on. They didn't feel integral to the plot.

 

The Fo plot needs a payoff or it shouldn't have been included. The resolution of the Dark King plot fell flat.

 

[Jareddm]

While I was not that big a fan of the book, it really got my theory brain going.

 

Maybe it's just wishful thinking (and it was probably mentioned somewhere in this thread) but I don't think we're done with the Dark King.

The end result in this book was that the Emperor can not beat Horus without it, yet it he gives it up. My theory is the Emperor will try to beat Horus without the power of godhood and fail. That he will eventually accept the power of godhood in order to defeat Horus. However, before he can fully manifest/ascend/transform, he will tell Dorn to return him to the throne. That the throne essentially locks the Emperor in some sort of half-ascended state, keeping the Dark King from forming, at least while the throne remains functional.

 

I see this as the Emperor trying to buy time for himself to figure a way out of it. And that by the Era Indomitus, or likely earlier, he found one. My theory is that he can not stop his ascension to godhood, but he can change what type of being he would become by changing the source of the ascension. Rather than taking the power himself as the Dark King, he could channel the faith of the trillions that now exist in the modern Imperium, assuming some threshold of faith is met. That if the throne were turned off before the appropriate time, the Dark King would manifest. But after some critical mass is met, turning the throne off would instead manifest something more positive for humanity, such as the Star Child. Thus, I believe the post-Heresy Emperor is on board with worship of himself as a god, as it is the only way to change what type of god he will become.

 

tl;dr:  The Emperor needs to be killed, but doing it too early will release a monster god and no one knows when the right time is.

Edited January 2 by Jareddm

[EverythingIsGreat]

21 hours ago, Scribe said:

Remembrancers ... I would gladly skip over.

 

I take exception to this statement.

 

21 hours ago, Scribe said:

I've yet to see an argument that 'the clocks, the clocks are, the clocks are stopped' is not both unrelentingly bloated, and wholly useless.

 

Somebody has to clean them. Also as stated previously, time being "flexible" is the ultimate retcon device. There can be no plot discontinuity when it is declared that continuity is meaningless. The other thing that the absence of continuity allows, and I will hide it in case people's heads explode (you have been warned)

 

Spoiler

Multiple, "alternate" what-if histories... After all Warhammer time is stopping and starting in a pretty haphazard and subjective manner... You may enjoy (?) future alternate retellings of what happened, no?

 

[Scribe]

47 minutes ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

Also as stated previously, time being "flexible" is the ultimate retcon device. There can be no plot discontinuity when it is declared that continuity is meaningless. The other thing that the absence of continuity allows, and I will hide it in case people's heads explode (you have been warned)

 

So pretty much the worst timeline possible in my view, and not at all the promise of the HH, Black Books, or SoT as a 'history' of the setting.

 

No offense intended, but the ultimate retcon device is an absolutely abhorrent addition to the canon, to me.

[cheywood]

Philosophically I like the idea that the arrival of Chaos in the material realm is the death of causality and meaning as we material beings understand such things. It’s a logical enough interpretation of what happens when a physical reality is invaded by a non-physical reality. But like the warp itself it kind of pollutes the story structure we’ve come to know and expect. Very much an odd philosophical rug pull at the last moment to me. Everyone was expecting Abnett to introduce some plot shenanigans, and he did, but I think the themes of TEATD are where the real surprises lie. 

[EverythingIsGreat]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

 

So pretty much the worst timeline possible in my view, and not at all the promise of the HH, Black Books, or SoT as a 'history' of the setting.

 

No offense intended, but the ultimate retcon device is an absolutely abhorrent addition to the canon, to me.

 

I get it, but on the other hand, there's so many comments by many of us here about what such-and-such plot turn may mean or how plots may resolve, that I believe look like exercises in alternate/speculative history anyway.

 

And of course no offense taken whatsoever. I have VERY thick skin, the happy result of not caring too much about anything in particular 

[EverythingIsGreat]

1 hour ago, cheywood said:

Philosophically I like the idea that the arrival of Chaos in the material realm is the death of causality and meaning as we material beings understand such things. It’s a logical enough interpretation of what happens when a physical reality is invaded by a non-physical reality. But like the warp itself it kind of pollutes the story structure we’ve come to know and expect. Very much an odd philosophical rug pull at the last moment to me. Everyone was expecting Abnett to introduce some plot shenanigans, and he did, but I think the themes of TEATD are where the real surprises lie. 

 

But who knows what really happened about anything? "Experts" cannot agree about the particulars of real-world conflicts that happened last decade. Or last year. It may just be that possibly unrealistic fiction has lulled us into believing that rational resolution is the norm rather than the exception.

And listen, how many times can you play a game with the same scenario? Variety prolongs interest.

[Scribe]

17 minutes ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

And listen, how many times can you play a game with the same scenario?

 

This is why we have dice, and variable army lists.

[cheywood]

2 minutes ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

 

But who knows what really happened about anything? "Experts" cannot agree about the particulars of real-world conflicts that happened last decade. Or last year. It may just be that possibly unrealistic fiction has lulled us into believing that rational resolution is the norm rather than the exception.

And listen, how many times can you play a game with the same scenario? Variety prolongs interest.

I’m afraid I’m not quite sure what you mean by this comment. I’m not talking about what the meaning/philosophical points of the Heresy are in-universe. That’s whatever the writers make it out to be. I mean that, critically speaking, it’s rather jarring and not particularly good writing to make all these 11th hour reinterpretations in such a long series. Reveals need to be built. Obviously a story shouldn’t be entirely what you expect, but I don’t think Abnett’s justified such a drastic change in direction at the last moment. I still like the changes in many ways, and I love the books, but I don’t think they’re especially well executed in the grand scheme of things. 

 

Sorry if I’ve misinterpreted what you’re saying! 

[wecanhaveallthree]

Quote

My theory is the Emperor will try to beat Horus without the power of godhood and fail. That he will eventually accept the power of godhood in order to defeat Horus

 

The Dark King doesn't exist in the grim darkness of the far future. It's the only place Malcador sees that it doesn't touch, the only possible timeline where it doesn't come to be.

[DarkChaplain]

I think my biggest issue with the whole concept of "the clocks run out, time and space hold no meaning anymore" is that, CLEARLY, both of those material dimensions STILL HAVE MEANING. Yes, space is folding in, connecting strangely, warping around, but CLEARLY it is still working to hold enemies out, bolt shells still exit through barrels, locked doors remain locked, and most of all: those things still exist in the first place. Our characters here? They still walk on the freakin' floor. The floor may suddenly give way or turn into a mire, but it's STILL adhering to concepts of normal physics.

 

Subjective time is also still a thing. While Dan brings back some namedrop daemons, for example, who we've previously seen banished (and Drach'nyen in particular should NOT be at the Siege or anywhere else UNTIL Abaddon finds the sword, because it cheapens the Emperor's deed in MoM), we know how many seconds Valdor experiences, how many aeons Dorn wanders through a desert and makes wall paintings, and how long Sanguinius meanders. Conversations still happen in real time as perceived by everyone involved, including witnesses. Events don't happen out of sequence, outside of the argonauts' string markings being there before they are. Time is clearly still a factor, it's still progressing, it's just all over the place. We're not dealing with the end of time, as Dan wants to frame it, but arbitrary slowness and quickening.

 

So while Dan likes to bludgeon the reader about the head with these nightmare scenarios - it's all bark, no bite.

 

When Fehervari writes themes like these, of the warping nature of time and space, like he did in his Phaedra stories, or Requiem Infernal, stuff was actually weird and made you question chronology and causality. The weird, detached pockets of existence actually feel alien, warping.

The End and the Death does not convey this to me at all. It's very busy telling me this is what it's looking like, but it's never really showing me the deconstruction of reality. Sure, some traitors may conveniently phase through walls and the palace layout is suddenly rearranged, but then, it's still these same locations being held. It's more like Loken teleporting from place A to place B with no real recollection of how he did it than the nightmare fuel we're told to expect.

 

It's all still very much reasonable in its design.

 

At best, we're dealing with isolated bubbles of time and space that function as normal but overlap with ones that have different map and game speed settings. Frankly, I find this no more strange so far than any random warpstorm scenario we had in the fluff, where a world was engulfed for centuries just to appear with nary a week having passed inside, or the opposite around. Like Baal during the Great Rift, skipping a decade of trouble by being cut off from the rest of the galaxy within an anomaly.

 

Considering that Terra's situation is meant to be much, much worse, I sure am disappointed by how little it feels like that.

 

And you know what? The issue also comes down to a complete lack of Guilliman and the Loyalist relief fleet, or hell, even some stragglers from the Iron Warriors or the likes. Imagine getting a few scenes of Guilliman entering the system just to see something Fehervari-tier weird where Terra, Mars and co should be. Imagine Perturabo or his lieutenants during their retreat from Sol, looking back at what they quit, expressing relief that they got out of that.

 

We have no outside viewpoint to what the frak is going on with Terra. EVERYONE is sitting inside the distortion. For them, it's inconvenient, slightly weird, but they don't suddenly start talking backwards yet. Which just makes me feel that whatever Dan is writing here is very, very tame for what he's trying to convey.

 

Even arguing that the Emperor / Malcador are keeping things together as best they can, there's so much room to show the cracks in horrifying, unsettling ways. Even the Vengeful Spirit still seems sensibly decorated at this point, and it's supposed to be the root of it all....

[EverythingIsGreat]

cheywood, thanks for your comment. And perhaps it's a matter of perspective. One can view TEATD as as a dream sequence. Or a dreamlike sequence, an entirely different thing thematically. And it sets out to detail things that have not previously been told, and possibly retelling things under a totally different light. While bridging to the eras (all of them perhaps) that followed. And possibly yet untold lore of the eras before it. While accounting for previous or/and forthcoming changes in IP. And possible changes to the foreground (the WH40K game system).

Playing devil's advocate, assuming the above is probable, is it really so improbable that a character does not act according to its past history? Especially since they may be following a different "skein" of event timelines to use a farseer favorite. 

Clocks having stopped any timeline is possible. Including one where the HH never happened. That would be a bit unsettling, I agree.

Edited January 3 by EverythingIsGreat
typo

[cheywood]

1 minute ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

cheyeood, thanks for your comment. And perhaps it's a matter of perspective. One can view TEATD as as a dream sequence. Or a dreamlike sequence, an entirely different thing thematically. And it sets out to detail things that have not previously been told, and possibly retelling things under a totally different light. While bridging to the eras (all of them perhaps) that followed. And possibly yet untold lore of the eras before it. While accounting for previous or/and forthcoming changes in IP. And possible changes to the foreground (the WH40K game system).

Playing devil's advocate, assuming the above is probable, is it really so improbable that a character does not act according to its past history? Especially since they may be following a different "skein" of event timelines to use a farseer favorite. 

Clocks having stopped any timeline is possible. Including one where the HH never happened. That would be a bit unsettling, I agree.

I think we’re talking at cross purposes here. I’m not questioning the meaning of what Abnett’s doing. I’m questioning the execution of it from an artistic perspective. I feel like those are very separate things.
 

But to address what you’re saying, I wouldn’t go so far as to call the books a dream sequence. A dream sequence implies unreality. That’s different from the loss of rationality. As far as we can tell everything happening in TEATD is equally real. There’s never a point where Oll becomes ‘dream Oll’, he just enters a world where causality no longer works as it should. By that same token I don’t really think the massive differences in character (besides Horus) are justified.

[EverythingIsGreat]

I meant the way they are written by Dan may be viewed as dream sequences (from the perspective of the reader, not the actors in the dream) or very differently as a dreamlike sequence (again from the readers' perspective). But anyway. I enjoyed the books, also because I was annoyed by them.

 

I also agree with what Dark Chaplain states above, I just tend to view this literature as part of a larger whole. That view is more comfortable with strange "accomodations".

[cheywood]

5 minutes ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

I meant the way they are written by Dan may be viewed as dream sequences (from the perspective of the reader, not the actors in the dream) or very differently as a dreamlike sequence (again from the readers' perspective). But anyway. I enjoyed the books, also because I was annoyed by them.

 

I also agree with what Dark Chaplain states above, I just tend to view this literature as part of a larger whole. That view is more comfortable with strange "accomodations".

I’m perfectly comfortable with them! Like I said I love the books. But from a literary criticism perspective they do a lot of things wrong, things that Abnett usually gets right. Pretty sure Abnett knows this and is choosing to eschew convention in favor of something unique. I like that decision, I’d rather something unique, but when a restaurant spends 50 years serving burgers and one day starts serving Chinese food instead you’re gonna be a little curious.

Edited January 3 by cheywood

[DukeLeto69]

7 hours ago, wecanhaveallthree said:

 

The Dark King doesn't exist in the grim darkness of the far future. It's the only place Malcador sees that it doesn't touch, the only possible timeline where it doesn't come to be.

I’m getting God Emperor of Dune Golden Path vibes!

 

I like all of that!

Edited January 3 by DukeLeto69

[DukeLeto69]

13 hours ago, Jareddm said:

While I was not that big a fan of the book, it really got my theory brain going.

 

Maybe it's just wishful thinking (and it was probably mentioned somewhere in this thread) but I don't think we're done with the Dark King.

The end result in this book was that the Emperor can not beat Horus without it, yet it he gives it up. My theory is the Emperor will try to beat Horus without the power of godhood and fail. That he will eventually accept the power of godhood in order to defeat Horus. However, before he can fully manifest/ascend/transform, he will tell Dorn to return him to the throne. That the throne essentially locks the Emperor in some sort of half-ascended state, keeping the Dark King from forming, at least while the throne remains functional.

 

I see this as the Emperor trying to buy time for himself to figure a way out of it. And that by the Era Indomitus, or likely earlier, he found one. My theory is that he can not stop his ascension to godhood, but he can change what type of being he would become by changing the source of the ascension. Rather than taking the power himself as the Dark King, he could channel the faith of the trillions that now exist in the modern Imperium, assuming some threshold of faith is met. That if the throne were turned off before the appropriate time, the Dark King would manifest. But after some critical mass is met, turning the throne off would instead manifest something more positive for humanity, such as the Star Child. Thus, I believe the post-Heresy Emperor is on board with worship of himself as a god, as it is the only way to change what type of god he will become.

 

tl;dr:  The Emperor needs to be killed, but doing it too early will release a monster god and no one knows when the right time is.

Can I just say I love all of this and it fits with my head canon nicely (as extensively written about in the old Bequin thread and identity of The Yellow King). It would see the threat of The Dark King transform (via adoration and worship by quadrillions of humans) into The Yellow King by M41/42.

 

 

Edited January 3 by DukeLeto69

[DukeLeto69]

7 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

I think my biggest issue with the whole concept of "the clocks run out, time and space hold no meaning anymore" is that, CLEARLY, both of those material dimensions STILL HAVE MEANING. Yes, space is folding in, connecting strangely, warping around, but CLEARLY it is still working to hold enemies out, bolt shells still exit through barrels, locked doors remain locked, and most of all: those things still exist in the first place. Our characters here? They still walk on the freakin' floor. The floor may suddenly give way or turn into a mire, but it's STILL adhering to concepts of normal physics.

 

Subjective time is also still a thing. While Dan brings back some namedrop daemons, for example, who we've previously seen banished (and Drach'nyen in particular should NOT be at the Siege or anywhere else UNTIL Abaddon finds the sword, because it cheapens the Emperor's deed in MoM), we know how many seconds Valdor experiences, how many aeons Dorn wanders through a desert and makes wall paintings, and how long Sanguinius meanders. Conversations still happen in real time as perceived by everyone involved, including witnesses. Events don't happen out of sequence, outside of the argonauts' string markings being there before they are. Time is clearly still a factor, it's still progressing, it's just all over the place. We're not dealing with the end of time, as Dan wants to frame it, but arbitrary slowness and quickening.

 

So while Dan likes to bludgeon the reader about the head with these nightmare scenarios - it's all bark, no bite.

 

When Fehervari writes themes like these, of the warping nature of time and space, like he did in his Phaedra stories, or Requiem Infernal, stuff was actually weird and made you question chronology and causality. The weird, detached pockets of existence actually feel alien, warping.

The End and the Death does not convey this to me at all. It's very busy telling me this is what it's looking like, but it's never really showing me the deconstruction of reality. Sure, some traitors may conveniently phase through walls and the palace layout is suddenly rearranged, but then, it's still these same locations being held. It's more like Loken teleporting from place A to place B with no real recollection of how he did it than the nightmare fuel we're told to expect.

 

It's all still very much reasonable in its design.

 

At best, we're dealing with isolated bubbles of time and space that function as normal but overlap with ones that have different map and game speed settings. Frankly, I find this no more strange so far than any random warpstorm scenario we had in the fluff, where a world was engulfed for centuries just to appear with nary a week having passed inside, or the opposite around. Like Baal during the Great Rift, skipping a decade of trouble by being cut off from the rest of the galaxy within an anomaly.

 

Considering that Terra's situation is meant to be much, much worse, I sure am disappointed by how little it feels like that.

 

And you know what? The issue also comes down to a complete lack of Guilliman and the Loyalist relief fleet, or hell, even some stragglers from the Iron Warriors or the likes. Imagine getting a few scenes of Guilliman entering the system just to see something Fehervari-tier weird where Terra, Mars and co should be. Imagine Perturabo or his lieutenants during their retreat from Sol, looking back at what they quit, expressing relief that they got out of that.

 

We have no outside viewpoint to what the frak is going on with Terra. EVERYONE is sitting inside the distortion. For them, it's inconvenient, slightly weird, but they don't suddenly start talking backwards yet. Which just makes me feel that whatever Dan is writing here is very, very tame for what he's trying to convey.

 

Even arguing that the Emperor / Malcador are keeping things together as best they can, there's so much room to show the cracks in horrifying, unsettling ways. Even the Vengeful Spirit still seems sensibly decorated at this point, and it's supposed to be the root of it all....

Good points but imagine the majority of the HH fanbase completely losing their :cuss: if Fehervari had been let loose to write tEatD! We’d probably all need counselling afterwards!