The End and the Death Part I, II, III, ...

[Scribe]

I'm only about 200 pages in, but it is so far a FAR better book than V1 (which ages like milk every day...) and V2.

[Fedor]

Dan ascended with these books.

[Nagashsnee]

6 minutes ago, Fedor said:

Dan ascended with these books.

But then robert who was his friend in early child hood until he literally stabbed him in the back over a girl, appeared again after all these years  and talked to him about how accession is lame and cringe. Thus convincing him its better to just not and so he descended.  

Edited January 26 by Nagashsnee

[DukeLeto69]

I totally forgot to mention this Bequin tie in when I reviewed tEatD vol2

 

 

There is direct reference to “The City of Dust” so while I thought it was inevitable that the Inevitable City was the same thing, this confirmed it! Which means Bequin and gang are hanging around in the Imperial Palace, sorta

Edited January 26 by DukeLeto69

[DarkChaplain]

2 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

I totally forgot to mention this Bequin tie in when I reviewed tEatD vol2

 

  Hide contents

There is direct reference to “The City of Dust” so while I thought it was inevitable that the Inevitable City was the same thing, this confirmed it! Which means Bequin and gang are hanging around in the Imperial Palace, sorta

 

I picked up on that too

 

Spoiler

In print/ebook, it's even capitalized as City of Dust, which makes it very apparent.

So if the City of Dust is actually kinda the Inevitable City / the Palace, that'd also explain why Terran artifacts are popping up. Just fell off a shelf from Malcador's collection and right through the cracks of time and space, or something like that.

 

It might also mean that Valdor never actually left Terra - he just went down to the basement.

 

Edited January 26 by DarkChaplain

[DukeLeto69]

10 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

 

I picked up on that too

 

  Hide contents

In print/ebook, it's even capitalized as City of Dust, which makes it very apparent.

So if the City of Dust is actually kinda the Inevitable City / the Palace, that'd also explain why Terran artifacts are popping up. Just fell off a shelf from Malcador's collection and right through the cracks of time and space, or something like that.

 

It might also mean that Valdor never actually left Terra - he just went down to the basement.

 

Indeed...

 

all those ultra rare books in the Bequin novels and short stories, right outta Malcador’s Library!

[SkimaskMohawk]

Guys I can barely remember the overall plots of eisenhorn and ravenor, let alone details from them; I never read any bequin or short stories past like, a couple from the Magos. 

 

I'm not exactly thrilled that the capstone book of the heresy ties into that stuff. 

[Scribe]

18 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

I'm not exactly thrilled that the capstone book of the heresy ties into that stuff. 

 

I'm 2/3 of the way through, and it's just name drops, so far it's not relevant.

[Scribe]

Finished, have not read the afterword yet.

 

Initial Thoughts Regarding V3: Its great. Its not perfect, but if V1 and V2 could have been this, we would have been talking about how unbelievably epic the final 'book' is. As it is, I'll have to chew on this before I do my more full review.

 

If people at all enjoyed V1 and V2, they are in for a treat, and I would say for me personally, its probably my favourite Abnett book, and likely the last thing of his I will read.

[Bestkeptsecret]

Brother Moderators if this has been pointed out before, please let me know. But, I am disappointed that in the Dramatis Personae not one character from the Emperor's Children legion is mentioned. So that means Fulgrim and his mad sense warriors have been lost to total anarchy and mindlessness to make them not important to talk about as individual characters.

[Scribe]

30 minutes ago, Bestkeptsecret said:

Brother Moderators if this has been pointed out before, please let me know. But, I am disappointed that in the Dramatis Personae not one character from the Emperor's Children legion is mentioned. So that means Fulgrim and his mad sense warriors have been lost to total anarchy and mindlessness to make them not important to talk about as individual characters.

 

There is mention, but it is limited yes.

 

I've now read the afterword, and with a sense of satisfaction I'm glad that I was able to pick up the various themes he was going for.

 

I would say he stuck the landing.

[Vazzy]

55 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

There is mention, but it is limited yes.

 

I've now read the afterword, and with a sense of satisfaction I'm glad that I was able to pick up the various themes he was going for.

 

I would say he stuck the landing.

Holy :cuss:. If you of all people are saying this I’m gonna love it lol. 

[Alpharius902]

Just finished it. I'm probably going to have to go back over all three volumes to get a feel for everything again, but right now, Volume III's sitting at 7/10.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Vazzy said:

Holy :cuss:. If you of all people are saying this I’m gonna love it lol. 

 

I've always been fair in how I look at his stuff, and yes if one is a fan of Abnett, I have to imagine they will be extremely pleased with the result here.

 

I think V3 is an 8 or 9 out of 10, I think 'Book 8' is brought down by V1 especially, but I think my view on V1 and V2 is probably known at this point.

 

Then again, I stack them up on the table and its hard to fault him TOO much when I consider the absolute mountain of words he put towards the total 'book'.

[Krelious]

2 hours ago, Bestkeptsecret said:

Brother Moderators if this has been pointed out before, please let me know. But, I am disappointed that in the Dramatis Personae not one character from the Emperor's Children legion is mentioned. So that means Fulgrim and his mad sense warriors have been lost to total anarchy and mindlessness to make them not important to talk about as individual characters.

 

Its all but been confirmed by rumours that a Scouring series will be happening and the books have already been written which is why GW has been kinda radio silent of upcoming releases. 

[Marshal Rohr]

The year is 2040. You live in a closet and eat bug burritos. You must sleep standing up and work remotely for a Tech Monopoly individually inspecting webpage cookies for 16 hours a day. 
 

 

But it’s not so bad. Book 9 of Dan Abnetts Iron Cage series Finale is about to be released. 

[cheywood]

1 hour ago, Krelious said:

 

Its all but been confirmed by rumours that a Scouring series will be happening and the books have already been written which is why GW has been kinda radio silent of upcoming releases. 

It has? I know the Scouring’s long been regarded as inevitable by the fandom, but I haven’t heard anything about the books already having been written. What’s the source of this rumor?

[Scribe]

I have to wonder how GW could do anything after looking at the website crippling response to the last few books here and not do a Scouring.

[wecanhaveallthree]

I was disappointed; I remain disappointed at Dan Abnett Presents! The Siege of Terra; a Night of Mystere and Wondere! in the same way I was disappointed with Echoes of Eternity. That the Siege dissolved into authors fluffing their pet projects or outright spruiking their future work at the end is genuinely depressing. I wanted conclusions to the FIFTY-FOUR BOOKS that preceded the capstone series. I wanted to see what Qruze's Oath of Moment meant, or the 'outcome none of them foresaw' presented in Outcast Dead, or just anything, really, that wasn't just the ideas and characters largely unique to Abnett, and largely unique to this final run of books. While I don't know if a satisfactory ending was ever on the cards, the simple fact is that much of what came before - the foundational premises that made the series so fascinating for so many people - has been quite thoroughly, and permanently, buried. There will be no conclusion, no catharsis, no nothing for the stories and characters I was interested in.

 

 

[DukeLeto69]

9 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Guys I can barely remember the overall plots of eisenhorn and ravenor, let alone details from them; I never read any bequin or short stories past like, a couple from the Magos. 

 

I'm not exactly thrilled that the capstone book of the heresy ties into that stuff. 

It won’t matter if you are not interested and won’t read Bequin so no harm done. Personally I love the Bequin books.

Edited January 27 by DukeLeto69

[neOh (AV)]

TEATD connection to the Bequin and Eisenhorn. Did i get everything right?
 

 

+ Along with Sindermann, Mauer, and Ahriman, in Library 888, was another person who had heard all the demonology lectures given by the Thousand Sons sorcerer. An archivist named Lilean Chase.

 

+ Lilean Chase, who later joined the Cognitae sect and in 321.M41 founded her own academy on the planet Hesperus, where she tried to train "perfect operatives", such as Sigmund Moloth, a heretic who sought to decipher the Enuncia language and became Gideon Ravenor's nemesis.

+ It was Lilean who wrote the book that was deciphered by Eisenhorn and Ravenor's teams at the end of The Penitent. It turned out that the entire text was one big name. The name of the King in Yellow, the mysterious grey cardinal who used Cognitae as his puppets and gained power over the Pandemonium. His name is Constantin Valdor.

+ Now let's go back to the moment when Valdor's Custodians confronted the Sons of Horus (in part 3). At that time, Abaddon himself, nourished by the Warp energies, came out to fight the Captain-General. Constantin was able to touch him with his spear and, due to the instability of time, looked ten thousand years into the future, where he saw only endless war and Abaddon's ascension to the Warmaster throne.

+ It seems that the vision greatly changed Valdor's worldview, and it was because of it that he left the Imperium and set out on his own path. The path of searching for the Emperor's true name. From the Bequin books, we know that the King in Yellow, or King Orpheus as he is also known, has an army of cloned pariahs, space marines with angelic wings, an unknown number of custodes, and even his own dimension in the Warp called the City of Dust.

+ An additional detail here is that the City of Dust is also mentioned in The End and Death. In the part 2, Malcador calls the City of Dust what remained of the Inevitable City after the impact of powerful energy wave caused by the Emperor's rejection of the Dark King's forces and the latter's banishment into Warp. Moreover, even the descriptions of the Inevitable City in 30k and the City of Dust in 40k are similar. So has Valdor been on Terra all this time? Just on the "parallel side"?

 

Edited January 27 by neOh (AV)
Typo

[DarkChaplain]

I'm 20% through so far, having listened to two and a half hours with only a minor interruption (package for neighbors, awesome...), and so far, despite still having nitpicks with Abnett's characterization of certain characters and an out-of-place Thiel, I'm happy with one thing above all so far:

 

Things. Actually. Happen.

 

It's not wasting hours on irrelevant stuff for now. It's getting to the point. I'm surprised by how early Fo's plotline starts popping, for example, when it has spent almost two entire novels stagnating.

 

It's almost as if Vol.III is The End and the Death Woken Up From A Nap, like last-minute cramming. I like it.

[EverythingIsGreat]

5 hours ago, neOh (AV) said:

TEATD connection to the Bequin and Eisenhorn. Did i get everything right?
 

  Reveal hidden contents

+ Along with Sindermann, Mauer, and Ahriman, in Library 888, was another person who had heard all the demonology lectures given by the Thousand Sons sorcerer. An archivist named Lilean Chase.

 

+ Lilean Chase, who later joined the Cognitae sect and in 321.M41 founded her own academy on the planet Hesperus, where she tried to train "perfect operatives", such as Sigmund Moloth, a heretic who sought to decipher the Enuncia language and became Gideon Ravenor's nemesis.

+ It was Lilean who wrote the book that was deciphered by Eisenhorn and Ravenor's teams at the end of The Penitent. It turned out that the entire text was one big name. The name of the King in Yellow, the mysterious grey cardinal who used Cognitae as his puppets and gained power over the Pandemonium. His name is Constantin Valdor.

+ Now let's go back to the moment when Valdor's Custodians confronted the Sons of Horus (in part 3). At that time, Abaddon himself, nourished by the Warp energies, came out to fight the Captain-General. Constantin was able to touch him with his spear and, due to the instability of time, looked ten thousand years into the future, where he saw only endless war and Abaddon's ascension to the Warmaster throne.

+ It seems that the vision greatly changed Valdor's worldview, and it was because of it that he left the Imperium and set out on his own path. The path of searching for the Emperor's true name. From the Bequin books, we know that the King in Yellow, or King Orpheus as he is also known, has an army of cloned pariahs, space marines with angelic wings, an unknown number of custodes, and even his own dimension in the Warp called the City of Dust.

+ An additional detail here is that the City of Dust is also mentioned in The End and Death. In the part 2, Malcador calls the City of Dust what remained of the Inevitable City after the impact of powerful energy wave caused by the Emperor's rejection of the Dark King's forces and the latter's banishment into Warp. Moreover, even the descriptions of the Inevitable City in 30k and the City of Dust in 40k are similar. So has Valdor been on Terra all this time? Just on the "parallel side"?

 

 

A good summary. A couple of points:

 

Spoiler

IIRC Malcador on the Throne calls the City of Dust the result of the Dark King's ascension, not his abdication. The abdication caused an enormous warp discharge. The Dark King's progress through the Inevitable City is turning it into the City of Dust by using Warp energy against Chaos.

 

The Cognitae are interesting. They were around during at least the Great Crusade and were involved in stuff, like looking for artifacts. For instance an operative was embedded in Kasper Hawser's expedition (to Albia I think) obviously before he became a rememberancer and skjald. She stole the Athame that killed Horus, but the blade drove her mad and she apparently went into freelancing, probably deserting the Cognitae. She also visited Prospero pre-Nicea...I don't know if Valdor should trust them, much less control them. But the interaction between Cognitae, the fresh Inquisition and the Alpha Legion would be interesting. In other circumstances, the Alphas would have been the perfect Chamber Militant for the Inquisition.

 

[Taliesin]

12 hours ago, Krelious said:

 

Its all but been confirmed by rumours that a Scouring series will be happening and the books have already been written which is why GW has been kinda radio silent of upcoming releases. 

 

Where has it been all but confirmed? I am interested in even seeing the rumors as I have not seen that idea floated before at all, that books have already been written and that that is why GW has been so silent on upcoming books.

 

I mean, it would certainly explain why they have been so silent on upcoming books. But is there any veracity to this idea? You have a link?

[Scribe]

The End and the Death - Third Book of that Name - Dan Abnett

 

What is the Horus Heresy? We have have asked that question here for many many years. Setting? Foundational Myth? History? Story? Tragedy (my personal take)?

 

Its become all of those things, and none of them over the course of near 20 years of the HH/SOT, but to go back to the original telling, we are closer to 40 years of history in the lore.

 

Abnett touches on this in his afterword, that this is THE foundational event. As the book is out now, my review follows.

 

TLDR? Volume 3 is great, and personally I left satisfied that I can walk away from this period of my life and nothing has been ruined. For a long time now, that was my only hope, that this pivotal moment would be met, and finally at least in this Volume, I feel it has.

 

So, here we go. This is spoilers town in some regards, dont like it, dont click it!

 

The Fight

 

There was debate for a long long time on the original telling. The Emperor let Horus attack him. The Emperor couldnt bring himself to destroy his son. The love for Horus was too pure. Back when we had BL folks here, they started to shoot holes into this position, it didnt make sense, it didnt hold up after what we saw in the HH series.

 

Spoiler

The battle between Emperor and Horus was finally taking off the regulators, and letting things run wild. We are across time, we are across dimensions. We are into alternate reality. Its the first Dr. Strange move, its arcana, its magic, its sacred geometry, its physical, mental, emotional.

 

Its also a subversion. Its HORUS who cannot bring himself to complete the deed. It is Horus, who retains love for his father and is pulling his punches. 3 or 4 times, he prevents the ultimate death of the Emperor and it is his own choice in the end, in a repeat of the Oll/Dark King interaction that has Loken/Horus converse and Horus gives up the power of Chaos...which leads to his death.

 

One minor thing that I both enjoyed, and found amusing?

 

 

All told, I had little issue with it, and enjoyed it.

 

Loken

 

Spoiler

Not a psyker, never a psyker, but was there in the theme of Father and Son. Which of course has been a theme across the Emperor and Horus/Primarchs, and Primarchs/Legions the whole time. It is he would weakens Horus' resolve, he who convinces Horus to let go of the power, and ultimately allows for the Emperor to destroy Horus. His ending fell flat for me personally, because I've never cared for him. Want to see how a surprise betrayal/murder is done? Argel Tal.

 

Oll

 

Spoiler

Does what he is meant to do. Having his story become that of the Guardsman, is a fair nod to how we 'thought' it was going to happen.

 

The Library

 

Spoiler

In his afterword, he outlines why some of these sections we have called bloat, exist. Its to change the pace, to give the reader room to breath, and of course offers some connective tissue and threading throughout the volumes. He does outline that this is actually 4 Novel length books, and I can believe it, its a massive block of paper on my shelf now.

 

The Library section is not really resolved, as there was nothing to resolve. Its not part of the major action, there was integration, but its just kind of 'oh we have a future, cya!' kind of thing.

 

The Angel and Sons

 

Spoiler

If there is one TINY section like 'the clocks' this is it. When the Black Rage descends on the Blood Angels. He outlines several marines who lose it, since they all do, and they start killing everyone and anyone. Another hurdle cleared, and its done well enough.

 

Spoiler

Rob G, Perturabo

 

Spoiler

We knew Rob was going to get there, I dont mind his section. I do like that we got the "Mark" and "Theoretical/Practical" as I believe Know no Fear was Abnetts previously best book in the series. The small section on Pertuabo doesnt seem relevant or important to me at all. He's been sitting in system...pouting. He wants to be a perfect weapon, but he resents having been treated as just a weapon. Hes in love with data, and its purity, but he wants to take his hammer and obliterate his room in a temper tantrum....I must be missing something here.

 

Now again, I liked this book. I think V1 could mostly be scrapped, and its only looking worse with every passing day, but this one is good. That said?

 

Fo and the Abnettverse.

 

Spoiler

A late addition to the series, given a role, a task, which he completes, but whats the pay off? There isnt one. He pulls a Hannibal Lector/Fabius body/mind switch, and...what? Its pure set up for something in the future. I absolutely HATE that in this book.

 

Again, this is the central pivotal, cornerstone lore of the setting. This is IT. The END, and you are setting up breadcrumbs for your next work? Crass. I dont care for it at all.

 

That hes doing this with multiple characters in this book, with his name drops, I dont like it at all because I couldnt care less about his Abnettverse. I dont read it, and I wont.

 

We all have complained about this to various degrees. Its a shrinking of the setting, of the universe. It makes things smaller, not more grand.

 

This leads to honestly my main complaint.

 

Valdor. Go back to page 1 of this thread and what do you see? A post from me, Aug 2, 2023.

 

Spoiler

I cannot see the same character as in Valdor. The personification of Duty. Of a sad, and resigned acceptance that those around him are unworthy, are failing, or will fail, his Emperor. Well, or the fact that the Emperor had 'given up his emotion' decades ago.

 

I cannot resolve the idea that Abnett read Valdor.

 

This is the weakest text in the book. The weakest dialogue. "Damn you." over and over? Like...this is VALDOR. Its just flawed. Most of his Custodians, just feels like a major flaw in presentation, and its easily the weakest portions of the book for me.

 

He's ruined Valdor in this book, and its unfortunate.

 

The Mountain

Spoiler

I'm fine with this, it all needs to happen, but there is still that shrinking of the setting going on. We have millions of people who are already 100 fanatical in their belief in the Emperor? Really? This should have taken generations. This should have taken hundreds of years, if not thousands, to get to the insanity, the orthodoxy, the structure, of the Imperial Faith.

 

I've hated this angle since it started but it has its purpose here, and its fine enough.

 

V3 is the capstone on an era. It was never going to be perfect for everyone, but it captures and illuminates much of what 'is required' to finish the HH major calling cards.

 

Do I think they missed expanding on one of the primary themes? Yes.

 

Spoiler

The tragedy that is the Emperor.

 

That's ok though. I think I understand the why of that, and it is what it is.

 

I do appreciate some of the little themes. Abnett was trying to GO BIGGER. It wasnt just the heresy, it was more than Horus, it was in his eyes the extinction event of the species. It was the Fall of the Eldar. It was the death of human culture. He talks about emotion, passion, art. The things which make humans, human. There is a thread here that is a good one, but its kind of hidden in a page here, or there, and thats it.

 

Is the final Book 8, good? Combined? Yes, and I think its a shame it couldnt have been sold as one, because my complaints about V1/V2 stand.

 

TLDR: 8-9/10 for V3. My heart can rest, as the foundational myth of the setting we have all been wrapped up in for 20-30+ years, now exists as canon.

 

If anyone has any other questions, let me know and I'll see if I can remember, I'm old now, this series took a long time. :D