[Poland] Price hike in October!

[OpossumStrong]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

Man, I’ve been waiting for Old World, and was hoping it would see the light of day by mid 2024. Guess GW doesn’t want my money for a while longer. Fair enough.

They do want your money, it's just they want more of it 

Edited September 4, 2023 by OpossumStrong

[Halandaar]

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

 

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

[Fire Golem]

7 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

 

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

I mean, obviously not? These things come up in every hobby space I’m in. 

[Mogger351]

20 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

 

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

People never stopped sacking off streaming platforms for pirating, I'd argue the subscribers were likely those that didn't want to pirate or only subscribed because it conveniently offered something that was a hassle otherwise.

 

The rest I think are valid points, people grip about price increases elsewhere but beyond streaming I don't see any other community subscribe so hard to wanting what they "enjoy" failing or looking for long winded work arounds and potentially illegal practices. It's less prevalent on here due to the moderation but it's common elsewhere to see a vocal chunk (unsure on size) wishing GW goes out of business and/or "learns a lesson" etc.

[alfred_the_great]

40 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

 

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

I think it’s internet whinging in general, but there’s a fairly decent sub-set of fandom (on here and elsewhere) that seem to have a toxic gaslighting-style relationship with 40k/GW. 
 

it’s the old trope: there’s only thing the internet hates more than change, and that’s things staying the same…

[Orion]

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

 

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

I'm surprised how much people have accepted GPU prices.
Even warhammer fans seem way more chill dropping $2000 on a graphics card than on well.... warhammer.

People think it's a poor comparison, but really unless you're using it for work, they're both just products of entertainment.

[sarabando]

34 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

People never stopped sacking off streaming platforms for pirating, I'd argue the subscribers were likely those that didn't want to pirate or only subscribed because it conveniently offered something that was a hassle otherwise.

 

The rest I think are valid points, people grip about price increases elsewhere but beyond streaming I don't see any other community subscribe so hard to wanting what they "enjoy" failing or looking for long winded work arounds and potentially illegal practices. It's less prevalent on here due to the moderation but it's common elsewhere to see a vocal chunk (unsure on size) wishing GW goes out of business and/or "learns a lesson" etc.

actually they did. World wide Torrent traffic dropped very quickly after Netflix started dominating the entertainment sphere, and when all the new services started sprouting up and hoarding their content to their own platforms that traffic went back up. 

 

This wont end GW overnight but if the current trend doesnt end its going to sting. 

[Kallas]

9 hours ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

They could choose not to raise prices and still stay in business.

It's not even "stay in business" which makes it kind of sound like they'd be having to tighten their belts; it'd be reduce profits by a small amount. They'd still be making plenty of money, plenty of profits. 

 

1 hour ago, Halandaar said:

do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

[...]

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

I guess you haven't seen people complaining about the various price gouging that all companies are doing? This is a GW-focused arena, of course it's going to be talking about GW predominantly, but many people are feeling the squeeze of "record profits" even while basic necessities are increasing, let alone hobbies that were already doing well enough.

 

Like, people really are feeling the cost of living going up, and people are grumbling about it wherever it gets talked about. Come into a GW hobby space and of course you'll see grumbling about GW prices, especially in a thread about (rumoured but believable) GW price increases.

[Orion]

6 minutes ago, Kallas said:

It's not even "stay in business" which makes it kind of sound like they'd be having to tighten their belts; it'd be reduce profits by a small amount. They'd still be making plenty of money, plenty of profits. 

 

I guess you haven't seen people complaining about the various price gouging that all companies are doing? This is a GW-focused arena, of course it's going to be talking about GW predominantly, but many people are feeling the squeeze of "record profits" even while basic necessities are increasing, let alone hobbies that were already doing well enough.

 

Like, people really are feeling the cost of living going up, and people are grumbling about it wherever it gets talked about. Come into a GW hobby space and of course you'll see grumbling about GW prices, especially in a thread about (rumoured but believable) GW price increases.

Honestly the property market is the worst. Wealthy people's unproductive assets (established housing) booming at the expense of people priced out of the market. Not to mention it's a necessity to live.

Property went up 50% in price over the past 3 years. 50% increase on things that cost half a million to begin with is a lot. And when you can't buy, the rent is even harder.

 

I find it hard to get emotional about warhammer with all that going on.

[Redcomet]

1 hour ago, alfred_the_great said:

I think it’s internet whinging in general, but there’s a fairly decent sub-set of fandom (on here and elsewhere) that seem to have a toxic gaslighting-style relationship with 40k/GW. 
 

it’s the old trope: there’s only thing the internet hates more than change, and that’s things staying the same…

There is definitely a subset of “fans” who only seem have negative feelings about gw and the hobby. But then again there are Star Wars fans that vocally hate everything not OT, Star Trek fans that hate everything not OS and so on and so forth.

 

Being negative is just a way of life for some people, and the internet is a good place to be a negative nancy

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Kallas said:

I guess you haven't seen people complaining about the various price gouging that all companies are doing? This is a GW-focused arena, of course it's going to be talking about GW predominantly, but many people are feeling the squeeze of "record profits" even while basic necessities are increasing, let alone hobbies that were already doing well enough.

 

Like, people really are feeling the cost of living going up, and people are grumbling about it wherever it gets talked about. Come into a GW hobby space and of course you'll see grumbling about GW prices, especially in a thread about (rumoured but believable) GW price increases.

 

Obviously people are unhappy about increases to costs like utilities, housing and food and actively criticising those companies - I'm among them. But I opted not to include those types of cost in my previous post because they are essentials that we ultimately have no choice but to pay for, in some form or another, so comparing them against optional things we buy for our own enjoyment isn't really like with like. 

 

And I'm clearly not just talking about here - very obviously the only complaining here is going to be about GW products because that's what we're here to discuss (and arguably all we're allowed to discuss). I'm talking about in the wider world - I just don't see the same level of vitriol being leveled at other companies (outside the above mentioned providers of "essential" goods and services), with the possible exception of Creative Assembly very recently. Buy hey, guess what the connection is there?

 

I would still argue that the average person's level of annoyance at say, Tesco, is significantly lower than the level of annoyance at GW despite the former being actively exploitative because you can't opt out of buying food. It feels like people broadly just roll their eyes when their actual necessities become more expensive, but are stirred into rage when it's their toy soldiers. I did say before that wasn't like with like, but even when comparing against other optional stuff I engage in, and therefore have an awareness of the communities for (like live music, live sports, video gaming and so on) it just feels like the level of vitriol for GW is generally higher than for any of those others even if the pricing across all of them is consistently going up.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Halandaar

[Kallas]

41 minutes ago, JayJapanB said:

Honestly the property market is the worst. Wealthy people's unproductive assets (established housing) booming at the expense of people priced out of the market. Not to mention it's a necessity to live.

Property went up 50% in price over the past 3 years. 50% increase on things that cost half a million to begin with is a lot. And when you can't buy, the rent is even harder.

 

I find it hard to get emotional about warhammer with all that going on.

I don't disagree that there are worse sectors. Doesn't mean that the companies being less bad should just be let off; all of the companies that are price gouging while reporting record profits need to be challenged, big and small to the varying degrees that they are gouging.

 

Necessities shooting through the roof is a much bigger concern, absolutely. But when people are talking about the value of GW's product and then comparing it with new prices, it's difficult to see how external, unrelated things matter much. Hell, if anything, the increase in cost of living makes GW price increases worse, not better - they're doing it at a time when they know full well that people are having to pay more and more for the basics than ever, yet they still put up their prices multiple times in a year, all while reporting record profits like the rest.

 

4 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

I'm talking about in the wider world - I just don't see the same level of vitriol being leveled at other companies (outside the above mentioned providers of "essential" goods and services), with the possible exception of Creative Assembly very recently. Buy hey, guess what the connection is there?

Outside of hobby stuff specifically, there is less direct involvement. People might be grumbling about GAP putting up their costs, but people generally aren't thinking and talking about clothes as much as something that one sits down to build, paint and play with; someone grumbling about the price of a video game is still not even the same, because generally it's far fewer payments overall for the product - there's definitely more grumbling there than with designer clothing because, again, it's a more involved activity.

 

The more involved something is, the more important it is to people. The more important it is, the more disgruntled people will get. I'd wager there are people in knitting communities that are complaining about the cost of their resources going up - the main difference between that hobby and this one is that there is one singular central entity (GW) that is making these kinds of decisions, whereas in the knitting example it's not like there is one major yarn brand that has cornered the market.

 

The vitriol GW faces is because of its own decisions. In this case, to increase prices when they are not even vaguely struggling and in the midst of a cost of living crisis (particularly in the UK).

[Kastor Krieg]

2 hours ago, Halandaar said:

do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

Yes, nowadays people are much more aware of the fact that the only goal of companies, especially traded corporations, is to drain them of all their money while providing the fewest actual goods / least actual service possible (maximizing profit through the roof while cutting cost to barebone minimum). People finally started recognizing that late stage capitalism is by design unsustainable.

And thank gods for that small ray of hope.
 

Quote

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

Yes, yup and you betcha.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Kastor Krieg

[Valkyrion]

When cost of living has never been higher, people take solace in their hobbies, be it wargaming, fishing, music, computer games, whatever.

 

Here we have a company raking in massive profits whilst their customer base is suffering with day to day financial troubles, and rather than throwing us a bone they want to take more from us.

Ally that with the 10th launch fiasco, half hearted effort at Warhammer TV, missed Imperialis launch, disjointed AoD2.0 support....it feels like greed, charging more for poor service and a failure to recognise what is going on in the wider world and how a price increase at this time is a kick in the balls. 

[Halandaar]

4 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

When cost of living has never been higher, people take solace in their hobbies, be it wargaming, fishing, music, computer games, whatever.

 

Here we have a company raking in massive profits whilst their customer base is suffering with day to day financial troubles, and rather than throwing us a bone they want to take more from us.

Ally that with the 10th launch fiasco, half hearted effort at Warhammer TV, missed Imperialis launch, disjointed AoD2.0 support....it feels like greed, charging more for poor service and a failure to recognise what is going on in the wider world and how a price increase at this time is a kick in the balls. 

 

*shrug* - I don't disagree with any of that. My point here is not that GW is in the right, they absolutely aren't;  it's that it feels to me like they're being singled out and criticised to a much higher level than equivalent companies who are all up to the same stuff.

[OpossumStrong]

13 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

 

*shrug* - I don't disagree with any of that. My point here is not that GW is in the right, they absolutely aren't;  it's that it feels to me like they're being singled out and criticised to a much higher level than equivalent companies who are all up to the same stuff.

I think if you head over some car enjoyers forum, or pc parts forum etc, you will encounter the same reactions about prices going up, it's just as you said, there is essentials that we must pay for and there are hobbies, i have a fixed amount of money I'm willing to spend on warhammer/pc/other entertainments, and i doubt i would change it unless something will happen in my life(good or bad), i still think warhammer is relatively cheap hobbie outside of competitive games, if you're collecting 1-2 armies you wont spend as much as you would spend on a high-end pc, and your armies can be up to date for decades, while even the best pc for today will be obsolete in less than a decade.

Edited September 4, 2023 by OpossumStrong

[Kastor Krieg]

14 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

 

*shrug* - I don't disagree with any of that. My point here is not that GW is in the right, they absolutely aren't;  it's that it feels to me like they're being singled out and criticised to a much higher level than equivalent companies who are all up to the same stuff.

No, it's more that you listen here. It's happening all over the place.

 

22 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

When cost of living has never been higher, people take solace in their hobbies, be it wargaming, fishing, music, computer games, whatever.

 

Here we have a company raking in massive profits whilst their customer base is suffering with day to day financial troubles, and rather than throwing us a bone they want to take more from us.

Ally that with the 10th launch fiasco, half hearted effort at Warhammer TV, missed Imperialis launch, disjointed AoD2.0 support....it feels like greed, charging more for poor service and a failure to recognise what is going on in the wider world and how a price increase at this time is a kick in the balls. 

Well put, Frater. Thank you.

[Kallas]

9 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

it's that it feels to me like they're being singled out and criticised to a much higher level than equivalent companies who are all up to the same stuff.

I think it's important to note where they're being criticised: I'd wager that it's in GW-centric hobby spaces (Subreddits, forums, Facebook groups, etc). If you're frequenting more generic spaces which are discussing cost of living/price increases and GW is being name dropped heavily, it'd be very interesting to see those discussions 

 

But really, I think if you're seeing a lot of criticism of GW's actions, it's highly likely that it's just in hobby spaces, and probably that you spend plenty of time in those - hell, I like to try and keep myself appraised of a few different things, but much of my focus goes into games, many of which are Warhammer-related or adjacent; I consume many more Warhammer discussions than I do D&D, even though I've played a fair amount of D&D and not all that much 40k since late 9th, so I would definitely witness a lot more GW criticism than WOTC criticism, even though I'm participating in D&D related things because I just don't go into those discussions (for D&D, it's because it's a much more isolated group: generally there's less talk about your own campaigns - which often sound like weird fever dreams when you try to describe them to others! - than there is discussion about GW Codexes, or lore, or 10th edition in general, etc).

[phandaal]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

People complain about prices going up everywhere, all the time, whenever they happen, for whatever product it happens to. What is exclusive to some fandoms is the reflex to defend the company that makes the hobby material. Elsewhere, you can gripe about prices going up a bit and people will generally be like "yeah, sucks" and then you move on.

 

GW does not even have the most ardent defenders or detractors though. Blizzard Entertainment was way worse in recent years, for example, as people watched them spike their products into the ground and charge more for the privilege.

 

What goes on here is baby talk by comparison.

[Arkhanist]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

These conversations often make me wonder, do people have the same level of derision for other businesses when their prices go up, or is it a thing that's exclusive to GW and it's fandom?

 

Are they pillorying book publishers because average paperback prices are higher than ever and pushing fan fiction as a valid replacement? Are they cancelling Netflix in favour of pirated torrents? Are they complaining to breweries while advocating making your own beer at home? If the price of their car journey goes up are they saying "bicycle go brrrt"? Boycotting McDonalds and Cineworld and Steam and Playstation and gigs and football matches?

 

I have no love for price increases but it feels to me like my entire life is more expensive now than it was last year, but GW is the only business I see getting regularly and vocally criticised for it.

 

Here in the UK I hear constantly people complaining about energy prices, broadband, and supermarket food pricing.

 

And all 3 are often noted as greedflation, where prices are going up faster than inflation to keep profit margins up despite shrinking demand.

 

The difference is those are necessities of life, while GW is a hobby. And even so people are indeed buying less food, or cheaper versions, using their heating less (this winter is going to be another tough one), and driving for essentials only.

 

I live too far from work to cycle, and I can't 3d print food, electricity or petrol. I can however 3d print models for painting for much less, and am doing that significantly more (mostly bits to customise my existing backlog, rather than new models). I'm buying less of other forms of entertainment, like streaming, books and eating out too, and I know I'm not alone.

[Brother Captain Arkley]

I have been an ardant GW fanboi for years... But as much as they release more stuff these years I can't help feel its at the cost of what actually made them good, I have had so many struggles with their CS in the last year that I simply can't be bothered anymore.

 

As for price hikes and in general, the cracks of my issues have spawned from different places. Some of the people on this very forum make it lets say difficult.

 

I feel I am actively being pushed to find cheaper alternatives, Whether that be 3D Printing for Epic and HH, or looking at FORGEworld for a cheap alternative to a limited model that was near impossible for me to get as I "missed" the limited window, I mean look at the Titus model and now Series 4, artificial scarcity for no damned reason.

 

GW annoy the living crap out of me with the FOMO, something I used to buy into. I have went from having actively 3 of each Primaris Unit (Not Characters) to 1, I will not buy that unit again until I paint the one I have.

 

My costs are not as high as some, I don't have kids. But I feel the squeeze enough.

 

I remember watching Peachy's interview with Tom Hibberd and the discussion of the Hobby Trumpet, I understand more clearly now... I am simply not the customer GW want now.

[Razorblade]

While I understand the general annoyance at price increases to a product that is already wildly profitable, I wonder just how one has to consume/participate in the hobby for them to hit that hard. 

Now full disclaimer I haven't touched a main System in years so meta-changes are not something I need to consider but given that most hobbyists are not mainly competitive players that shouldn't be that much of an issue.

I would describe myself as fairly active in both Blood Bowl and Heresy and I spent like 50€ a Month. I own 3 Blood Bowl Teams which is all I need for the near Future since I tend to run the same team for multiple seasons. For heresy that level of spending has allowed me to build around 3000 points over the last year, which is about all I'll need since events in Germany tend to run 2,5k max. 

So, genuine question and no judgement but how are you interacting with the hobby that these price increases are driving you out? 

[Kastor Krieg]

9 minutes ago, Razorblade said:

genuine question and no judgement but how are you interacting with the hobby that these price increases are driving you out? 

I am from Poland and earn in PLN. Our currency's "buying power" is about a quarter of that of a pound sterling, dollar or an euro. Minimum wage is about 600-700 EUR. Thus, every "just a few pounds / dollars / euro" price hike hits me quadruple. 

My entire Firstborn Space Marine army just got invalidated overnight and Primaris equivalents are more and more expensive. Do the math :|

[Valkyrion]

It's not really about being priced out, it's more about feeling ripped off and taken for granted.

If 10th had launched without a hitch, and we were all anticipating watching our favourite space operas on WHTV, and were busy painting our tiny epic, and 30k had received a FAQ, and Raven Guard had received a single HQ model before the Imperial Fists receive their 8th, and FOMO was vanquished so everyone got what they wanted when they wanted it then at least a price hike would be easier to swallow because you can see things have been achieved. 

 

But this year so far has seemed so slapdash and uncoordinated, and if hobby ennui kicks in when you're already a little unhappy with the product then a price increase is just going to tip you over the hobby edge, so congrats - you've made an extra 5% because I needed to buy that last box to finish my army, but you've also ensured that I won't be starting a new project. 

 

 

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

 

Here in the UK I hear constantly people complaining about energy prices, broadband, and supermarket food pricing.

 

And all 3 are often noted as greedflation, where prices are going up faster than inflation to keep profit margins up despite shrinking demand.

 

The difference is those are necessities of life, while GW is a hobby. And even so people are indeed buying less food, or cheaper versions, using their heating less (this winter is going to be another tough one), and driving for essentials only.

 

I live too far from work to cycle, and I can't 3d print food, electricity or petrol. I can however 3d print models for painting for much less, and am doing that significantly more (mostly bits to customise my existing backlog, rather than new models). I'm buying less of other forms of entertainment, like streaming, books and eating out too, and I know I'm not alone.

“Prices going up faster than inflation” is an internally contradictory statement by the most common definition of inflation. It’s like saying “too many raindrops have fallen given how much it’s raining.” It’s just that the reported “official” inflation stat is based on a “basket of goods” that gets altered with “substitutes” to massage the number down for political reasons, because the government doesn’t want the true scale of inflation causing blowback. It’s a very artificial stat that should be viewed with some suspicion.

 

So, people see all kinds of items grow in price “faster than inflation” which the government can blame on “corporate greed” which again, looks better for them. Not that corporations don’t look to maximize profit, they do, but that has always been the case. GW is not more or less “greedy” now than they have ever been since going public decades ago. They are charging more if they believe that people are willing to pay. If you are willing to pay, then you are proving them right. If you are not, then don’t, and they will lose money. Simple as.

 

GW is not providing housing or essential utilities (where I agree there are issues, I do not believe that institutions should be able to purchase single family homes, only people/families but that’s way OT). They are selling toy soldiers. You don’t need them to live. Hell, you don’t even need their toy soldiers to play a TT game, there are many options. Yes it sucks, but they are entitled to ask however much they want for their product. So buy less. If their profits go down, they will change. No amount of internet posts has the same effect as declining sales.