[Poland] Price hike in October!

[caladancid]

21 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Something tells me this is in fact not a legit question, given the oh-so-subtle framing.

 

That said, I too wonder sometimes why people would choose to be wrong rather than applying the same subjective value to things that I do.

 

I would rather people just said, I don't care about prices increases and will pay whatever GW asks for these models. It would be an improvement over "hey I have this totally true question please help me understand."

 

On a different note, I always knew I was saving the pile of grey for a rainy day. Being realistic I can refrain from new purchases until.....12th edition?

[Doghouse]

Maybe this will mean I can actually can order something I want on release before it sells out! 

 

[TheOneTrueZon]

Me: walks in to random FLGS with 9 YO son

Kid: grabs new Farsight model, overjoyed that he finally sees one. Looks at price tag. Smile turns to frown. Puts box back on shelf. Goes over to Pokémon with a sigh.

 

GW, how does this get people interested in the hobby?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Lolz, ofc it's happening, if not 1st Oct then wait a few months... this is GeeDub. 

Whilst the impact on wallet is a personal thing for each of us (I can throw thousands at this hobby but don't anymore), my reasons for walking away from 40k is the usefulness of the product part of value for money.

 

They have made about 3/4 of my DA army redundant for no legitimate reason (only mentioned briefly, not to start a derailment ) and now want me to replace them. Hard Nope.

They provided a free ruleset that is measurably the worst ruleset ever and expect our competitive players to be free playtesters. From this point on anyone who isn't a Casual is now to be known as a Playtester... lolz.

They then produce Codexes which are full of errors and need day one FAQ/Errata and constant fixing over the Edition life.

Then Editions change far too regularly for anyone not a 'playtester' to enjoy and the cycle continues. 

The value of their products used to include longevity, without that there are far too many other hobby options out in the world to justify these price rises.

 

[Raziel-TX]

Buying my own resin 3d printer is looking more and more likely at this point. 

[crimsondave]

30 minutes ago, Raziel-TX said:

Buying my own resin 3d printer is looking more and more likely at this point. 

I highly recommend it.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:55 PM, Kastor Krieg said:

Got word from FLGS. Make your orders this month. October is the third price hike this year.

 

It's so absurd.

No way...

Agh.

[01RTB01]

2 hours ago, TheOneTrueZon said:

Me: walks in to random FLGS with 9 YO son

Kid: grabs new Farsight model, overjoyed that he finally sees one. Looks at price tag. Smile turns to frown. Puts box back on shelf. Goes over to Pokémon with a sigh.

 

GW, how does this get people interested in the hobby?

Especially when start collecting/ vanguard boxes are pricey compared with what entry was. 

 

Other games are cheaper and easier to get into which is sad.

[templargdt]

I'd honestly be really interested in GW's market research and pricing model, because I can't imagine what it looks like.  People are buying 3-D printers and buying models off skeevy chinese websites rather than pay GW's MSRP even with a FLGS discount.  

 

I buy a heck of a lot less stuff from them than I used to, and that's with two kids now enjoying the hobby.  I had a second Indomitus box that I bought on sale when 9th dropped in my closet and that kept my children happy in building and painting the entire summer.  I skipped Leviathan completely except for 10 terminators off of ebay, since my Templars had no regular terminators.  

I was also like the other frater that bought the codexes for fun reading, back when they were, you know, 25 bucks.  I have stopped even buying the codexes for the armies I own except for Space Marines and the Templars, because that's the only army I want to play with, when I actually manage to get a game in.  

The great Space Marine reset is another example.  The NOVA reveals are just ridiculous.  They re-released Terminators, Sternguard, Assault Marines, and Scouts.  Wow guys.  Amazing.  I joked about it earlier, but I'm expecting the 5 man Sternguard unit to be 40 bucks, i.e. 80 for a box of 10.  
 

I honestly have no idea how they are getting people into the game.  I thought the start collecting boxes at $95 (plus tax) was as high as it could possibly go, and they've blown waayyyy past that.  My kids are by far and away the youngest 40K players I see in any store I go to.  The next youngest are probably in their 30s.  Meanwhile kids drop 20 bucks on Pokemon starter decks and they're off to the races.  Each additional hit is 5 bucks.  

[Lord Marshal]

11 hours ago, templargdt said:

I'd honestly be really interested in GW's market research and pricing model, because I can't imagine what it looks like.  People are buying 3-D printers and buying models off skeevy chinese websites rather than pay GW's MSRP even with a FLGS discount.  

 

I buy a heck of a lot less stuff from them than I used to, and that's with two kids now enjoying the hobby.  I had a second Indomitus box that I bought on sale when 9th dropped in my closet and that kept my children happy in building and painting the entire summer.  I skipped Leviathan completely except for 10 terminators off of ebay, since my Templars had no regular terminators.  

I was also like the other frater that bought the codexes for fun reading, back when they were, you know, 25 bucks.  I have stopped even buying the codexes for the armies I own except for Space Marines and the Templars, because that's the only army I want to play with, when I actually manage to get a game in.  

The great Space Marine reset is another example.  The NOVA reveals are just ridiculous.  They re-released Terminators, Sternguard, Assault Marines, and Scouts.  Wow guys.  Amazing.  I joked about it earlier, but I'm expecting the 5 man Sternguard unit to be 40 bucks, i.e. 80 for a box of 10.  
 

I honestly have no idea how they are getting people into the game.  I thought the start collecting boxes at $95 (plus tax) was as high as it could possibly go, and they've blown waayyyy past that.  My kids are by far and away the youngest 40K players I see in any store I go to.  The next youngest are probably in their 30s.  Meanwhile kids drop 20 bucks on Pokemon starter decks and they're off to the races.  Each additional hit is 5 bucks.  

 

GW know 99.9% of people are going to stick around, no matter how loudly they gripe about it. They're not completely stupid. If their profits were dropping every time they announced a price rise they'd probably not do them on the regular, but GW have been doing them on the regular since I started twenty years ago. GW's research on price hikes is, "we've been making bigger profits every year since 2016 no matter how high we push it up."

 

Is there a straw that'll eventually break the camel's back? Maybe.

 

The amount of people who 3D print are a very vocal but tiny minority who tend to buy into their own hype. The overwhelming majority of people are more content going into a shop or online and buying a box of models. I think a lot of people do look into 3D printing, but then they realise they don't want to spend £150-£400 for what is essentially a hobby within a hobby and it isn't a case of "buy printer, plug in, trillions of models for a few bucks in five minutes!" people try and make out. People have been insisting 3D printing will banish GW any minute now for at least six years. It's more likely to hurt their competition than anything, which will ironically funnel more people into GW's arms when/if those games 'die'. 

 

Recasters on the other hand only tend to be cheaper for resin models anyway, which in the GW sphere is a niche within a niche and by 'design' they're meant to be bit a pain in the arse to find unless you know someone or already know where to look. 

 

The only way GW will change tac is if people vote with their wallets and do actually stop buying in considerable number, but that's probably not going to happen. It did occur at the tail end of the Kirby Era, but that was still a death-by-a-thousand-cuts that took a good while and pretty much outright spite for their customers to happen (and they were still turning a profit throughout).

 

I've noticed the median age of your average 40ker has definitely risen though. Back when I started it was mostly young teens (as I was at the time), but these days it tends to exclusively be the ones with rich parents, but are otherwise largely IT guys in their early 20s or people in their 30s/40s who grew up with it.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Kastor Krieg]

15 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

GW know 99.9% of people are going to stick around, no matter how loudly they gripe about it. They're not completely stupid. If their profits were dropping every time they announced a price rise they'd probably not do them on the regular, but GW have been doing the on the regular since I started twenty years ago

People absolutely do not stick around and get priced out en masse.

 

What GW does is what they always have - aim for the new customer above retaining the old one. Best are the kids who do not have their own money yet and get stuff bought for them by parents. That's always been the GW model - 10 years ago when I was an FLGS clerk and a GW rep told me what and whom to focus on, and it is now. The Warhammer stores do not refuse older regular gamers their tablespace for no reason - they need it always ready for demo games.

[templargdt]

19 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

GW know 99.9% of people are going to stick around, no matter how loudly they gripe about it. They're not completely stupid. If their profits were dropping every time they announced a price rise they'd probably not do them on the regular, but GW have been doing the on the regular since I started twenty years ago. GW's research on price hikes is, "we've been making bigger profits every year since 2016 no matter how high we push it up."

 

Is there a straw that'll eventually break the camel's back? Maybe.

 

The amount of people who 3D print are a very vocal but tiny minority who tend to buy into their own hype. The overwhelming majority of people are more content going into a shop or online and buying a box of models. I think a lot of people do look into 3D printing, but then they realise they don't want to spend £150-£400 for what is essentially a hobby within a hobby and it isn't a case of "buy printer, plug in, trillions of models for a few bucks in five minutes!" people try and make out. People have been consisting 3D printing will banish GW any minute now for at least six years. It's more likely to hurt their competition than anything, which will ironically funnel more people into GW's arms when/if those games 'die'. 

 

Recasters on the other hand only tend to be cheaper for resin models anyway, which in the GW sphere is a niche within a niche and by 'design' they're meant to be bit a pain in the arse to find unless you know someone or already know where to look. 

 

The only way GW will change tac is if people vote with their wallets and do actually stop buying in considerable number, but that's probably not going to happen. It did occur at the tail end of the Kirby Era, but that was still a death-by-a-thousand-cuts that took a good while and pretty much outright spite from GW to happen (and they were still turning a profit throughout).

 

I've noticed the median age of your average 40ker has definitely risen though. Back when I started it was mostly young teens (as I was at the time), but these days it tends to exclusively be the ones with rich parents, but are otherwise largely IT guys in their early 20s or people in their 30s/40s who grew up with it.

 

I dunno.  I've got a pile of shame that I'm sharing with my kids, and when that runs out I have a ton of models from the last 15 years that I plan to strip and repaint since I'm a much better painter now.  I could honestly never buy another GW model again and probably have hobby projects for another decade.  I can't imagine I'm alone in that boat.

[Osteoclast]

4 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

Something tells me this is in fact not a legit question, given the oh-so-subtle framing.

 

That said, I too wonder sometimes why people would choose to be wrong rather than applying the same subjective value to things that I do.

No, it’s a legit question. There’s an awful lot of outrage and people talking about investing in 3D printing, which is a $300+ investment, and I’m just confused because it seems a bit over the top. Unless it’s an absolutely drastic increase, I’m not seeing how it’s going to hit the wallet all that badly, unless you’re buying a whole ton of minis all the time, which doesn’t seem to make sense to me?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Osteoclast

[WrathOfTheLion]

9 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

People absolutely do not stick around and get priced out en masse.

 

What GW does is what they always have - aim for the new customer above retaining the old one. Best are the kids who do not have their own money yet and get stuff bought for them by parents. That's always been the GW model - 10 years ago when I was an FLGS clerk and a GW rep told me what and whom to focus on, and it is now. The Warhammer stores do not refuse older regular gamers their tablespace for no reason - they need it always ready for demo games.

I don't think it's en masse, what happens with many folks is they buy less, but spend the same amount.

 

That said, and maybe it's a regional thing, we have a pretty strong regular gaming community at the Warhammer store here. They have a separate table for demo games, but that may be different in Europe.

 

That all said, constant price increases to increase sales works, until it doesn't. Like all things, it can't continue in that direction forever, although we haven't hit that threshold yet, which is why they keep doing it.

Edited September 3, 2023 by WrathOfTheLion

[Syphid]

At this point, GW is just giving me more reasons to be happy with the fact that I gave up on this hobby. More money for new kits with fewer customization options is just bizarre and really takes away from the fun of the game. 

[Warden-Paints]

40 minutes ago, Osteoclast said:

No, it’s a legit question. There’s an awful lot of outrage and people talking about investing in 3D printing, which is a $300+ investment, and I’m just confused because it seems a bit over the top. Unless it’s an absolutely drastic increase, I’m not seeing how it’s going to hit the wallet all that badly, unless you’re buying a whole ton of minis all the time, which doesn’t seem to make sense to me?

 

One particular price increase a few years ago highlighted some pretty bad habits of mine. Since then I buy a lot, lot less, and rarely directly from GW. For some people acquiring new things is legitimately where they get their hobby buzz, and price increases suck especially hard for them. 

[Wugo_Heaving]

It's a shame that GW seems to be doubling down on their demographic being rich people. It's always been a fairly "middle class" hobby but now it's like there's no  room for anyone other than the type of people who buy multiple boxes of new releases on pre-order every time, and nobody else.

 

I was honestly hoping 10th would at least be an end to high-priced books, and that they would have the rules, codexes etc either free online, or available in affordable smaller, paperback format. That would lessen the sting to future price rises to a degree, but they can't even do that. GW clearly just want the type of customers who don't even need to think about the money they are spending. I'll also add, they clearly also know that some people will keep buying no matter what. I.e.  The man-child "super fans" to whom GW can never do wrong. So, rich people and FOMO doormats.

 

I will say though, that when there is a model release that I like and I cave in to being a fan-boy, I really want to support my local independent store rather than GW, but GW are shafting them too by not supplying them with stock. So between the price hikes, commodifying every aspect of the game, and seemingly wanting indie stores dead, it's peak crack-pipe greed all round. By the end of the year I'm guessing I'll end up giving my money to potentially dubious Russian recasters. And when someone says that, surely that's a sign you've messed up as a company? 

 

 

[Matcap86]

28 minutes ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

GW clearly just want the type of customers who don't even need to think about the money they are spending. I'll also add, they clearly also know that some people will keep buying no matter what. I.e.  The man-child "super fans" to whom GW can never do wrong. So, rich people and FOMO doormats.

 

 

Way to be demeaning to fellow hobbyists there.

 

I could say the same for the group who loudly proclaims every price increase they're now stopping for real/have stopped with GW for a decade now, but still hang around hobby communities like a jilted lover looking at their ex's Facebook to see if they're having more fun without them.

 

1 hour ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

It's a shame that GW seems to be doubling down on their demographic being rich people. It's always been a fairly "middle class" hobby but now it's like there's no  room for anyone other than the type of people who buy multiple boxes of new releases on pre-order every time, and nobody else.

 

Except for you know. People who buy 1 box or don't buy into every release and thus spend a lot less money? 

 

I'm not happy with a price increase either (if we're actually getting one. I'd have expected more flgs to have chimed in by now). But the amount of hyperbole that usually piles up in these threads gets grating at times.

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

GW clearly just want the type of customers who don't even need to think about the money they are spending.

 

They certainly want customers who are willing to keep spending more for the same or less. Everyone has their limit though, even if they are still physically able to continue making larger purchases.

 

For many people, they look at a $60+ box of minis and the thought is less "can I eat this month if I pay the extra $5" and more "is this worth that price?"

 

The higher the price goes, the less likely it is to be worth it. Simple as.

 

On the topic of 3D printing, it is not "this model costs me an extra $5, so I am going to buy a $300 printer." That would be ridiculous, obviously, which is why it is used as the argument in an attempt to discredit other people's opinions.

 

The 3D printing thing is "man, the price of these minis keeps going up. I might as well start printing minis, because it is going to be a lot more expensive in the long run to keep buying new stuff for my hobby from Games Workshop."

[GreenScorpion]

Overall the mention of 3d printing as a way to go forward when faced by price increases is more about long term.
If you buy a 3d printer for a single model it won't bring any kind of saving (unless it is a massive model), but overtime it might be a good option for people who want to have something but feel it is too expensive or if they want something more custom.

Lets imagine that your yearly expense with GW is 3*150€ boxes and you see a 300€ resin printer and some stl's that would cost you around 150€ (including the resin cost...) to print equivalent miniatures as those in the 3 boxes. In this case obviously you haven't saved anything and given the time you put into searching for equivalents and getting things printed you might have a loss in terms of hobby time. But the thing with 3d printing is you can continue to do it over several years and then the initial cost per miniature will lower (less waste as you learn more and no need to purchase stl's again for the same miniature), so you end up saving in the long run.
Similar things can be said from 3d party miniatures that are cheaper than GW (like wargames atlantic for IG equivalents for example) and there might be a tendency to shift purchases a bit for some people.

Obviously there will be many that will continue to spend money on GW stuff regardless of the price increases.

[Dark Shepherd]

I think GW are accidentally forgetting or not realising the fun part of the hobby

 

Cracking open a big box of stuff is fun (discount or feeling of value adds to that). Paying €40 or more for a 10 model squad of a horde army doesnt feel like fun to me. Lair of the Beast, Battle in Balin's Tomb, they feel like fun

 

This is personal obviously but these days I buy any Black Library from Amazon, paints mostly non GW, havent bought character minis in years (kitbash or Imperiun mag instead). Codex/edition churn feeds into this but the specialist games feel like much more fun to me now, and have a much lower outlay

[OpossumStrong]

Ok so maybe the tyranid "win" was planned, it's not a secret that tyranids(and any other army) are less popular than SM, so they gave the win to tyranids to release them first, then comes the price hike and we get the new SM range refresh with the new prices, unless they will release those new models before the price hike 

[Evil Eye]

4 hours ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

It's always been a fairly "middle class" hobby

There is a great discussion to be had on this, and how the middle class has been slowly (intentionally, even) destroyed by the Powers That Be, but that falls outside of the realms of this forum.

 

On the note of 3D printing, as someone who owns a 3D printer, it's a tricky one. It's definitely got a learning curve, and the initial cost IS steep. However, the long-term savings are huge. Most models are either available for free or cost a pittance, and actual printing costs are low. I printed a pretty big dragon that would have been at least £80 from GW for £5 worth of resin (and it would have cost less but I was using a fancier resin). To be honest I feel like the price is a far lower barrier to entry to 3D printing than the other factors (the smell, the inherent messiness, dealing with calibration etc) and there's no doubt it is a hobby unto itself; it's definitely not as easy as "press button, get Space Marines". Speaking purely for me though I think it is worth taking the plunge into if you're getting sick of how GW is treating you. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Wormwoods]

11 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

There is a great discussion to be had on this, and how the middle class has been slowly (intentionally, even) destroyed by the Powers That Be, but that falls outside of the realms of this forum.

Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your piles of shame. 

 

3D printers are great, I enjoy having a number of print-happy nerds in my extended hobby group... But like, it's not plastic. Great if you're looking to get models on the field, or get painting done, but if you're into the physical act of modelling, converting, tearing kits apart and putting them back together in new, interesting ways, there really isn't a better material than plastics. Great as a supplement, and a way to get bits/stuff not available in plastics, but it's not a total replacement for that side of the hobby, and I don't think it ever will be. 

[Alternis]

3 hours ago, matcap86 said:

 

Way to be demeaning to fellow hobbyists there.

 

I could say the same for the group who loudly proclaims every price increase they're now stopping for real/have stopped with GW for a decade now, but still hang around hobby communities like a jilted lover looking at their ex's Facebook to see if they're having more fun without them.

 

 

Except for you know. People who buy 1 box or don't buy into every release and thus spend a lot less money? 

 

I'm not happy with a price increase either (if we're actually getting one. I'd have expected more flgs to have chimed in by now). But the amount of hyperbole that usually piles up in these threads gets grating at times.

I couldn’t have said this anymore eloquently, I’m usually just very upfront and speak my mind which generally upsets people, but this statement is spot on.