New Codex Astartes Detachments

[Lysimachus]

I haven't seen it being discussed anywhere else, so thought I'd start a topic. The Nova reveals said there would be 7 Detachments available for Codex Marines, flavoured towards the FF Chapters (though usable by any Chapter, not colour scheme locked) and a 1st Co. force.

 

Presumably that means:

 

1. Ultramarines keep the 'standard' Gladius Detachment?

2. White Scars (or any Chapter 6th Co?) have the new 'Stormlance', bike themed (although given how dull the Outrider squad options are, this might be a bit... limited?)

3. 1st Co Task Force - TDA focussed? Interested how it will compare to taking Deathwing?

4. Iron Hands - Tanks? Dreadnoughts?

5. Imperial Fists - How will it differ from Ultras? Siegecraft/improved Heavy weapons? And/or more stubborn, maybe? - anti-Battleshock?

6. Raven Guard - Improved Infiltrate/Scout? I'd prefer that over anything Jump Pack related (better fit for an alternate BA Detachment whenever they get their dex?)

7. Salamanders - Flamer/Melta buffs? MC weapons?

 

Just my opinions here, could be way off. Any thoughts on what else we might get?

 

Interesting how you might have multiple options for building a particular army theme, i.e. if doing a Raven Guard First Company, would you use the 1st Co Task Force Detachment or the RG-ish Detachment? Either way, unit selection wouldn't be an issue as you are free to take an all TDA (or whatever) force.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Lysimachus

[CCE1981]

Based off of what we have seen in the Tyranids Codex, and some things I suspect we should see some interesting things.

 

Following your blueprint.

 

1.  Ultramarines - Gladius Task Force - unchanged

 

2. Whitescars - Stormlance - I believe this one was named, Outriders, Invaders, Storm Speeders, possibly Gladiators and dedicated transports buff

 

3. 1st Company - Terminators, Sternguard Company Command Squads, Characters - We might also be able to use this, Gladius and the Stormlance, possibly all other detachments with the other Chapters as well, at least until their individual Codices arrive.

 

4. Ironhands - Probably the tank / Dreadnought one - though looking at the nid-zilla detachment this might be underwhelming

 

5. Imperial Fists - I remember hearing, though not from where, possibly Valrak, that this one would be Gravis- Centric - this might be interesting due to limited Character support.

 

6. Ravenguard - yeah this one should be Stealth heavy - Scout, Eliminators, Incursors, Infiltrators, Reivers…will Reivers be good or will the meme continue?

 

7. Salamanders - I hope it isn’t limited to Flamers / Meltas,  close ranged heavy fire aa an alternative would improve them a lot.  Not to mention how bad melta currently rest but that is another discussion.

 

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

They said on the stream that there was going to be a "Techmarine and vehicle" focused one, presumably to represent my cybernetic boys.  We've all been expected something tank & Dreadnought-y, so I'm wondering if there's actually going to be anything specific to Techmarines in particular.  I don't own any Primaris Techmarines aside from Feirros because they're not in Gravis armor, but if there some good benefits there I'll have to put some thought into it.

[spessmarine]

IF somehow became the Gravy pattern guys.

 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I would welcome a Detachment focused on Gravis Armour and one on Tanks & Dreadnoughts. My glorious Firstborn will enjoy using the different ways of organisaing themselves to kill vile heretics, mutants, witches and traitors. 

 

A Detachment focused on jump infantry would be neat to see. 

[Cpt_Reaper]

Shot in the dark, but could any detachment give Battleline to units that don't have it? Like the Salamander-based Detachment makes Infernus squads Battleline but Heavy Intercessors lose it? Raven Guard could have Incursors/Infiltrators and Assault Intercessors as Battleline but not Intercessors.

[MadGreek]

Isn't one missing here? Is it 7 detachments PLUS a First Company? So shouldn't Blood Angels be on that list? Perhaps with an assault focused theme?

[Tacitus]

Blood Angels are getting their own book, as are the Dark Angels and Wolves - based on news releases and the DA Codex release coming a couple months after the Codex Marines. 

 

You probably want to think the various "Codex" divergent chapters - Ravenguard, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templar (May have their own Codex) - and maybe some of the White Dwarf and/or Forgeworld chapters - Blood Ravens, Minotaurs, Sharks etc. 

[Lemondish]

2 hours ago, MadGreek said:

Isn't one missing here? Is it 7 detachments PLUS a First Company? So shouldn't Blood Angels be on that list? Perhaps with an assault focused theme?

 

The first paragraph on the preview on WarCom mentioned 7 total detachments:

 

"It contains 93 datasheets – somewhat slimmed down from the Index, but still a massive roster – and seven complete Detachments."

 

So that's 7 INCLUDING the First Company one. It goes on to describe how 6 are based on favoured doctrines of first founding chapters, the Ultramarines, the Imperial Fists, the Iron Hands, the Salamanders, the Raven Guard, and the White Scars. The last is the First Company one. Blood Angels, Deathwatch, Space Wolves, and Dark Angels appear to all be receiving their own books separate from the main Marine one.

 

From the stream, they had these things to say:

 

Quote

One detachment that is all about using techmarines and vehicles

Iron Hands.

Quote

..another one that is about close quarters shooting..

Probably Salamanders, given the way flamer and melta guns are pretty close quarters by design, but a dark horse guess here could be Fists - it'd be a neat way of dealing with siege masters.

Quote

...another one that is all about using fast vehicles to get forwards and fight..

White Scars.

Quote

..or even sneaking around in the background with your Vanguard troops.

Raven Guard.

 

So that gives us solid examples of what to expect for Ultramarines, Iron Hands, (probably) Salamanders, Raven Guard, and White Scars from a thematic point of view. Not much crunch in all that fluff, so wild speculation is definitely needed here gentlefolk.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Lemondish

[Karhedron]

An interesting question will be how much the detachment impacts your ability to take different units. Will it be largely based around benefits, such that a Phobos detachment provides bonuses that favour infiltrators etc? Or will it be via restrictions, such that a Phobos force cannot take (m)any heavy tanks?

[Paladin777]

The tyranids detachments suggest that the different detachments encourage certain units to be taken, but does not ban the use of others. 

[Dracos]

Of course this is all going to lead to one of the Detachments rising above the rest in competitive play, actually doing well if not great and getting nerfed because …. they’re  space marine. 

[jaxom]

Modifying my comment from another thread. I had thought the marine strike force boxes may be clues towards what we'd eventually see and now we have more information.

 

1) Gladius Task Force - (Warforged Strike Force, Scions of Macragge) It's in the index and we know that the index detachment will be in each codex.

 

2) First Company Strike Force - We know its coming because of WarCom and the live stream.

 

3) Vanguard Task Force - (Ravenstrike Battle Force) A shoe-in with the Vanguard army of renown. Mentioned on livestream.

 

4) Vehicles and Techmarines - (March of Iron) Stated in the livestream. Could be as restrictive as the Crusher Stampede (only benefits vehicles and techmarines) or could be more like the Assimilation Swarm (vehicles and techmarines enable the detachment's rules & strats, but other units can still benefit).

 

5) Bikes and Light Vehicles - (Storm of Chogoris) Mentioned on livestream. Perfect for representing 7th and 8th Company detachments.

 

6) Close Quarters Shooting - (Bastion Strike Force, Warforged Strike Force) Mentioned on livestream. Definitely a niche here, and it will be interesting to see how the Design Team tries to pull it off.

 

That leaves only one detachment where there's been no clues yet. But looking at the above there is a noticeable gap:

 

7) Assault Company - Newly released character with jump pack? Check. Newly released unit with jump packs? Check. Assault Intercessors in Impulsors, Brutalis Dreadnoughts, and similar to round things out.

[Paladin777]

1st Company will probably be everything with a 'veteran' keyword. My guess is that would consist of sternguard, VV's, BGV's, possibly company heroes, and whatever terminator datasheets survive.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Paladin777

[Tacitus]

16 hours ago, Karhedron said:

An interesting question will be how much the detachment impacts your ability to take different units. Will it be largely based around benefits, such that a Phobos detachment provides bonuses that favour infiltrators etc? Or will it be via restrictions, such that a Phobos force cannot take (m)any heavy tanks?

Restrictive Detachments are not part of the current design paradigm I'd say so it will be the carrot and not the stick. 

[DemonGSides]

Although it would be awesome to have one that changed the classification of what Battle-line is; like if the White Scars detachment made Outriders Battle-Line, so you could take a metric :cuss:-ton of them.

[jaxom]

13 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Restrictive Detachments are not part of the current design paradigm I'd say so it will be the carrot and not the stick. 

 

@Karhedron, I think Tacitus has it if the Crusher Stampede detachment from Tyranids is any indication. Nothing prevents a Tyranid player from using it with a few units of 'gaunts, but the 'gaunts gain no benefits at all. Big carrot to use all of one's points on big gribblies. I suppose the absence of additional rules for the little tyranids could be viewed as the stick? At least relative to Invasion Swarm or Unending Swarming where they get perks.

 

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

Although it would be awesome to have one that changed the classification of what Battle-line is; like if the White Scars detachment made Outriders Battle-Line, so you could take a metric :cuss:-ton of them.

We've not seen it so far and it's an interesting thought exercise. 

 

3x Chaplain on Bike

3x Outrider Squads w/Invader ATV

3x Invader ATV

Total: 1410

Gives 18 Outriders, 6 Invader ATVs, and 3 Chaplains. Chock in Storm Speeders and you can get to 2000 points easily. However, I expect that's not the issue. We're kind of looking at force org charts again: one doesn't have enough slots to take a quantity of models that seem right for army one wants to play (e.g. 24 or more Space Marines on bikes). If I'm being generous, I'd say it's a balance issue, or maybe a game size issue. A 1000 point army of all Marines of Bikes is still doable.

 

[DemonGSides]

I'd also expect to get more character support on bikes if they are serious about that sort of detatchment.

But I have a feeling there won't be just a "Bike" detachment, as cool as it would be.  It'll just be a fast mover detachment, and probably fold in jump pack units as well.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Im hoping we get a drop pod assault detachment 

[Tacitus]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:40 AM, jaxom said:

 

@Karhedron, I think Tacitus has it if the Crusher Stampede detachment from Tyranids is any indication. Nothing prevents a Tyranid player from using it with a few units of 'gaunts, but the 'gaunts gain no benefits at all. Big carrot to use all of one's points on big gribblies. I suppose the absence of additional rules for the little tyranids could be viewed as the stick? At least relative to Invasion Swarm or Unending Swarming where they get perks.

 

We've not seen it so far and it's an interesting thought exercise. 

 

3x Chaplain on Bike

3x Outrider Squads w/Invader ATV

3x Invader ATV

Total: 1410

Gives 18 Outriders, 6 Invader ATVs, and 3 Chaplains. Chock in Storm Speeders and you can get to 2000 points easily. However, I expect that's not the issue. We're kind of looking at force org charts again: one doesn't have enough slots to take a quantity of models that seem right for army one wants to play (e.g. 24 or more Space Marines on bikes). If I'm being generous, I'd say it's a balance issue, or maybe a game size issue. A 1000 point army of all Marines of Bikes is still doable.

 

White Scars would be looking at Bikers and "mounted" infantry not MOUNTED keyword, but the traditional generic meaning - Guys in APCS.  Primaris in Impulsors.

 

Ravenwing might add the speeders in their Ravenwing only Det (and I hope but do not expect a RW+DW Det) but I would expect to also see a Lightning Strike Det for BA that does Assault Jumpers, Speeders and maybe Deepstriking Terminators. 

[Karhedron]

On 9/5/2023 at 7:34 PM, DemonGSides said:

I'd also expect to get more character support on bikes if they are serious about that sort of detatchment.

 

The Bike Captain is also available although it remains to be seen if he survives the transition to a full Codex or whether he remains Index/Legends.

[DemonGSides]

That's what I meant by more character support; actual characters on Outrider bikes being released. 

[Galron]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:35 PM, Bloody Legionnaire said:

Im hoping we get a drop pod assault detachment 

With the current points being as high as they are, the only thing needed would be more specialized strats. I have a 3 drop pod and terminator list that I have a hard time adding or subtracting from due to how expensive things are. But making drop pods dedicated transports would obviously add more options and flexibility. 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

3 hours ago, Galron said:

With the current points being as high as they are, the only thing needed would be more specialized strats. I have a 3 drop pod and terminator list that I have a hard time adding or subtracting from due to how expensive things are. But making drop pods dedicated transports would obviously add more options and flexibility. 

 

It's insane to me that Drop Pods are not dedicated transports while Razorbacks are... Those 2 absolutely need to switch unit types!

[Dracos]

Takes a lot of effort to deliver and maintain and Razorback in a combat arena. Drop pod just … drops