Crimson Fists 700 list help needed (please)

[Forté]

I've got some games coming up in October and we'll be using the list building limitations from a tournament one of us has been playing at.

 

When we play I'll be using Crimson Fists (Primaris) and the others could be using pretty much anything so I need to cover as many bases as possible (yup... my head hurts). Any suggestions will get greatly appreciated.

 

The Building Rules: 

• 700 points limit

• No single unit more than 225 points

• No aircraft (I don't have any anyway)

• Nothing with more than 14 wounds

• No Epic Heroes

• Must use 1 Battleline minimum

• No unit outside of Battleline and Transport can be taken more than twice

 

I've got the following that can be used:

Biologis, Captain in TDA, Liby in TDA, Prim Ancient, Prim Cpt (shield), Prim Lt (Shield), Prim Lt (bolter), Prim Lt (sword).

 

HInt ×5, Int ×15

 

Ballistus, Eradicators ×6, Hellblaster ×5, Incursor ×5, Infurnus ×10, Infiltrator ×5, Reivers ×10, Sternguard ×5, TDA ×5, Vindicator ×2

 

 

Can maybe pick up some other bits but would rather build from what I have so far, initially.

 

Many thanks.

[Paladin777]

I think the ballistus is in because you'll need something to deal with any armor your opponent could throw at you. The eradicators are decent for supplemental anti-large, but not enough to be your only anti-large. The Biologist is cheap enough to go with said Eradicators if you have the points. 
 

A lieutenant with Bolter Discipline would be pretty good with the hellblasters, or a different HQ with the sternguard (lethal hits aren't the best with them because of mortal wounds). 

 

5 terminators in the middle is also a tough unit to crack. 
 

one problem you've got is you don't have any battleline units. 
 

only the Intercessor variants and Tac Marines are battleline in 10th. 
 

 

[Forté]

40 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

one problem you've got is you don't have any battleline units. 
 

only the Intercessor variants and Tac Marines are battleline in 10th. 

You missed the HInts×5 and Ints ×15.

 

All points definitely taken on board. Haven't had much luck with Combi Sternguard. Probably bad target choices on my part.

 

Got this far:

Crimson Fists v1 700 pts (610 points)

Space Marines

Imperial Fists

Incursion (1000 points)

Gladius Task Force

 

CHARACTER

 

Apothecary Biologis 

 

Primaris Lieutenant 

  • Warlord

  • BP, CCW, M-C BR

  • Enhancement: Bolter Discipline

 

BATTLELINE

 

Intercessor Squad

  • Intercessor Sergeant

    • 1x Power fist

  • 4x Intercessor

    • 1x Astartes grenade launcher

 

OTHER DATASHEETS

 

Ballistus Dreadnought

 

Eradicator Squad (3)

  •  1x Multi-melta

 

Hellblaster Squad

 

 

Thinking either Reivers for a deep strike or Incursors for the +1 hit.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Forté

[Paladin777]

oops with the ints...
 

Sternguard are better with the regular bolters anyway.

 

give yourself another squad of regular intercessors for some more board presence and I think you're likely in for a decent time. 
 

Sustained hits+lethal hits (lieutenant with BD) really is a winning combination, especially on a hard-hitting unit like Hellblasters!

Edited September 16, 2023 by Paladin777

[Forté]

10 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

oops with the ints...
 

Sternguard are better with the regular bolters anyway.

 

give yourself another squad of regular intercessors for some more board presence and I think you're likely in for a decent time. 
 

Sustained hits+lethal hits (lieutenant with BD) really is a winning combination, especially on a hard-hitting unit like Hellblasters!

Good things for me to keep in mind there. Cheers.

 

A second Ints does make sense.

 

With the Lt; do you reckon to have him for range with a bolter or close with shield?

[TheNicronomicon]

4 hours ago, Forté said:

Good things for me to keep in mind there. Cheers.

 

A second Ints does make sense.

 

With the Lt; do you reckon to have him for range with a bolter or close with shield?

I think you’re better off building the LT to complement the unit; if he were leading Hellblasters I’d go for range, if he’s leading Bladeguard or something optimize for close combat. 

[Forté]

Okay... minor update.

 

To cut a long story short... I lost 3 out of 3 

Basically a combination of bad decisions and not really having movement tools to react at such a small game.

 

But, as things should be... there are more games coming up and I was thinking of a slight change of direction.

 

A quick reminder of the limitations:

Spoiler

700 points limit

 

• No single unit more than 225 points

• No aircraft (I don't have any anyway)

• Nothing with more than 14 wounds

• No Epic Heroes

• Must use 1 Battleline minimum

• No unit outside of Battleline and Transport can be taken more than twice

 

The main initial change will be to try and use the Vanguard Detachment with its sneaky movement strategems.

 

This is the list I'm thinking:

CHARACTERS

 

Lieutenant (with Intercessors)

  • Warlord

  • Heavy bolt pistol, Plasma pistol, Power fist

 

Lieutenant in Phobos Armour (with Infiltrators)

 

 

BATTLELINE

 

Intercessor Squad

  • 1x Intercessor Sergeant: Power fist

  • 4x Intercessor: Astartes grenade launcher

 

 

OTHER DATASHEETS

 

Desolation Squad

  • 1x Desolation Sergeant: Vengor launcher

  • 4x Desolation Marine: Superkrak rocket launcher

 

Inceptor Squad 

  • 1x Inceptor Sergeant: Assault bolters

  • 2x Inceptor: Assault bolters

 

Infiltrator Squad

  • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant

  • 4x Infiltrator: Helix Gauntlet, Infiltrator Comms Array

 

Reiver Squad

  • 1x Reiver Sergeant: Bolt carbine, Grapnel Launcher, Reiver Grav-chute

  • 4x Reiver: Bolt carbine, Grapnel Launcher, Reiver Grav-chute

 

 

Now to explain a little.

- The Eradicators, while excellent in larger games, are too focused on killing big things which don't really appear at this size,

- I'm thinking Desolation as they can deal with both infantry and heavy stuff,

- Reavers are more to keep my opponent thinking about deep strikers,

- Infiltrators could be changed for Incursors. This one I'm not completely sure on.

 

Anyway; thank you if you got through all that. I appreciate any feedback and insights.

 

Hope your dice roll well for you.

[DemonGSides]

I think those desolators are gonna do some work for you. 

[Forté]

44 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

I think those desolators are gonna do some work for you. 

 

Many thanks. Still can't rule out human error on my part, unfortunately.

[DemonGSides]

700 pts and all the other rules definitely make for an interesting exercise. Idk if I'd want to keep playing those rules forever, but it's gonna be a different feeling type of 40k.

[Dracos]

 

Detachment: Vanguard Spearhead

 

+ Character +

Lieutenant: The Blade Driven Deep
. Neo-volkite pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword & Storm Shield

 

+ Battleline +

Intercessor Squad [10]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher

Intercessor Squad [5]
.

+ Infantry +

Reiver Squad [5]

Reiver Squad [5]

Terminator Squad [5]

. Assault Cannon

 

++ Total: [700pts] ++

 

This kind of list is designed to help score and outmaneuver your opponent. If you want to just kill things, the Firestorm detachment is a better choice but if you want to control the pace and flow of the game, Vanguard is the way to go.

 

Lt leads the the large Intercessors squad flavor sgt as desired. My feeling is Blade Driven Deep works best with Judiciar and Bladeguard but Lethal Hits with that many attacks from an infiltrating unit of Intercessors and Termies screened by Reivers should keep an opponent on back foot somewhat.
 

The -1 to be hit at range 12” is a great defensive buff. Plan on your Termies as a ready reserve to come to the rescue of the  infiltrating Intercessors. While the other 5 a sore off the home objective. I mentioned the Reivers as screens for the Terminators but at least one of those units should be scoring off actions. 
 

Good Luck

Edited November 16, 2023 by Dracos

[Forté]

17 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

700 pts and all the other rules definitely make for an interesting exercise. Idk if I'd want to keep playing those rules forever, but it's gonna be a different feeling type of 40k.

We've had a couple of group games too. First was doubles at about 4500 points, and the other had 3 a side and about 5000 (including some legends). Great fun and my Eradicators and Vindicators really earned their points.

 

A lot of playing the 700pts games is getting to know the rules, units, and missions better.

[Forté]

6 minutes ago, Dracos said:

 

Detachment: Vanguard Spearhead

 

+ Character +

Lieutenant: The Blade Driven Deep
. Neo-volkite pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword & Storm Shield

 

+ Battleline +

Intercessor Squad [10]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher

Intercessor Squad [5]
.

+ Infantry +

Reiver Squad [5]

Reiver Squad [5]

Terminator Squad [5]

. Assault Cannon

 

++ Total: [700pts] ++

 

this kind of list is designed to help score and outmaneuver your opponent. If you want to just kill things, the fire storm detachment is a better choice but if you want to control the peace and flow of the game, vanguard is the way to go.

I've tried Terminators in this size game. Didn't really manage much I found. And it's a lot of points in one place.

 

Doesn't help that one main opponent is Death Guard and the other Necrons. Otherwise I can be up against Custodes, Eldar, Deldar, Ork, or other Marines.

[Dracos]

I didn’t see Inceptors in the OP. In that case I’d swap the Terminators for the Inceptors and “Counts As” (a minor conversion) your Phobos Lt as a Combi-Lt. 
 

Marines especially at this point level aren’t out killing most of your opponents. But with Vanguard shenanigans you can put score them

 

[Forté]

22 minutes ago, Dracos said:

I didn’t see Inceptors in the OP. In that case I’d swap the Terminators for the Inceptors and “Counts As” (a minor conversion) your Phobos Lt as a Combi-Lt. 
 

Marines especially at this point level aren’t out killing most of your opponents. But with Vanguard shenanigans you can put score them

 

It's the scoring part I really need to work on.

 

I do have the combi Lt mini so could be an option.

[Wind Whistler]

If you are able to pick up any new models any time soon, I would really consider Inceptors. A unit of inceptors with assault bolters seems like it could do amazing work at this army size. 

[Forté]

4 hours ago, Wind Whistler said:

If you are able to pick up any new models any time soon, I would really consider Inceptors. A unit of inceptors with assault bolters seems like it could do amazing work at this army size. 

That's actually the one squad currently on the shopping list. Especially with the 3" rule for them deep striking. Harder to lock out.

[Paladin777]

3 inceptors is good at any size! XD

[Forté]

24 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

3 inceptors is good at any size! XD

Just need to get a squad now... when I can find them at a normal price that is.

[Tacitus]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:10 PM, Forté said:

You missed the HInts×5 and Ints ×15.

 

All points definitely taken on board. Haven't had much luck with Combi Sternguard. Probably bad target choices on my part.

 

Got this far:

Crimson Fists v1 700 pts (610 points)

Space Marines

Imperial Fists

Incursion (1000 points)

Gladius Task Force

 

CHARACTER

 

Apothecary Biologis 

 

Primaris Lieutenant 

  • Warlord

  • BP, CCW, M-C BR

  • Enhancement: Bolter Discipline

 

BATTLELINE

 

Intercessor Squad

  • Intercessor Sergeant

    • 1x Power fist

  • 4x Intercessor

    • 1x Astartes grenade launcher

 

OTHER DATASHEETS

 

Ballistus Dreadnought

 

Eradicator Squad (3)

  •  1x Multi-melta

 

Hellblaster Squad

 

 

Thinking either Reivers for a deep strike or Incursors for the +1 hit.

I'm fairly fond of a Phobos Libby in some Infiltratrors for the frustration factor.  You can't shoot them outside 12, and you can't Deep Strike inside 12.  Something is going to have to roll all the way over there just to melee them, AND do it better than the Phobos Libby can counter-melee. 

 

Edit to Add:  I tend to use that unit to surround Bobby G, so it's even worse.  You can't shoot Bobby G, and you can't shoot what is preventing you from shooting Bobby G.  And now you have to roll something that can beat the Libby and the Primarch. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Tacitus

[Ming the Merciless]

Rule of Cool dictates...

 

Ancient (Warlord, Flesh is Weak)

Lt Boltrifle (Master of the Machine)

10 Intercessors

 

Vindicator

Vindicator

 

(Ironstorm Spearhead)

[Forté]

3 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

Rule of Cool dictates...

 

Ancient (Warlord, Flesh is Weak)

Lt Boltrifle (Master of the Machine)

10 Intercessors

 

Vindicator

Vindicator

 

(Ironstorm Spearhead)

In fairness, I do love a Vindicator or two. Especially in engagement range when people forget the siege shield.