Blood Angels army list Storm the front - 2000pts All (most) Primaris

[Spyros]

Here I am again playing with numbers and hypothetical lists.

I am assuming the new Assault Intercessors with Jump-Packs (AIwJP) are going to cost 230 just like the Assault squad is now. In fact the AIwJP will probably have fewer options than the Assault squad, could they be cheaper?

 

Check this out. This Sons of Sanguinius list invests in Primaris melee units and durability. I have almost all the models, so let's see what I can present.

 

SoS - 1830 points

 

120 Dante

230 Assault Intercessors JP (10) (estimated)

  90 Sanguinary Priest JP

 

  80 Primaris Captain, sword & shield

180 Bladeguard Vets (6)

  50 Bladeguard Ancient

240 Land Raider

 

  75 Primaris Lieutenant

160 Assault Intercessors (10)

  80 Sanguinary Priest

260 Land Raider Redeemer

 

115 Inceptors (3)

150 Whirlwind

 

170 points remain. Ideally I would put a 6-man Eradicator squad, kept in strategic reserve. But the cost 190.

The option would be to change the LR Redeemer for another Lascannon-armed LR (aka Phobos).

And of course wait and see the final cost of the new AIwJP.

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

[Karhedron]

Looks good but a bit light on anti-tank to me. I have found a humble squad of Lascannon Devastators are a decent choice and are pretty light on the points. They also make decent backfield Objective campers.

[Spyros]

So I guess the only way to AT is to change the Redeemer for another Phobos .

Two Land Raiders and a 6-man Eradicator squad in reserve.

[OverchargeThis!]

Watch out for horde IG lists. I have a 2000-point list with 130 infantry and five vehicles. The entire army is set up with enough orders for all units to fire at BS 3+. This type of army might pose a problem for such a list. I don't see enough anti-infantry firepower.

 

Mordian Glory just ran an all-infantry guard list with over 200 infantry models and won two and drew one game at a recent RTT. You can catch it on YouTube.

 

He was suggesting, and I agree, that horde might end up being the meta, given the current emphasis on taking heavy anti-vehicle weaponry.

 

May I suggest some cheap filler units, like scouts with bolters/HB or anything that will pad your numbers and cover high-volume anti-infantry firepower? perhaps two such units and a Gladiator Reaper? I don't think a second whirlwind will have the volume of fire in this case to make much of a difference.

 

 

[Spyros]

I see the point about horde armies. Of course the local meta plays an important factor in choosing units.

 

If I tried to balance the list, do you thing two LR Phobos are enough for ranged AT?

Meaning the Eradicators are out and something like Gladiator Reaper or Brutalis/Redemptor Dreadnought is in.

 

I want to maintain the three big blocks of melee, and now that I'm thinking about it, even with chainswords the Red Rampage makes them AT. Kind off.

[OverchargeThis!]

The issue with land raiders for AT is the same as I have when I use them with GK: they not points-efficient because you're also paying for transport capacity. I'd stick with Gladiator lancers, at least two, and have a squad of eradicators all forming my core AT. If you have points left over, then maybe a Ballistus Dreadnought.

 

I think you've got some stratagems that give you +1 to wound, and you can get +1S on both the charge and if you have a commander leading a squad. With as many PF's as you can pack in your squads, I'd say you're good on AT therefore, once you get that core set up.

 

Points: It should be about 660 points, or 33 percent of your army, to get 2 lancers, a ballistus, and six eradicators.  Not sure if that is too high a percentage of your army in the current meta.

 

 

 

 

[Spyros]

The LRs will stay because this is not supposed to be an all jump-pack list. So they will have to do both jobs of transporting (and assault ramps are nothing to laugh at) and ranged AT. And be tough too...

 

The melee wont have an issue, the BA get +1S & +1A on the charge. The Sanguinary Priests improve the melee weapons' AP by 1. Red Rampage stratagem gives Lance and Lethal Hits.

 

Dante's squad, just with chainswords would have 50 S5 attacks hitting on 2+, -2 AP, with Lethal Hits and +1 on wound roll (Lance)....

 

We'll see...

[Karhedron]

47 minutes ago, Spyros said:

The LRs will stay because this is not supposed to be an all jump-pack list. So they will have to do both jobs of transporting (and assault ramps are nothing to laugh at) and ranged AT. And be tough too...

 

I agree. If you can leverage both the firepower and Transport capacity of a Landarider, they are very good. And with T12 a 2+ save and the SMOKE keyword, they are quite hard to shift.

[OverchargeThis!]

56 minutes ago, Spyros said:

The LRs will stay because this is not supposed to be an all jump-pack list. So they will have to do both jobs of transporting (and assault ramps are nothing to laugh at) and ranged AT. And be tough too...

 

The melee wont have an issue, the BA get +1S & +1A on the charge. The Sanguinary Priests improve the melee weapons' AP by 1. Red Rampage stratagem gives Lance and Lethal Hits.

 

Dante's squad, just with chainswords would have 50 S5 attacks hitting on 2+, -2 AP, with Lethal Hits and +1 on wound roll (Lance)....

 

We'll see...

Sounds pretty solid, then. Seems like it's just a function of resolving for that last 170 or so points. Probably a ballistus with points left over for an enhancement.

 

 

[Spyros]

I 'd love a Redeemer for its anti-infantry firepower but the need for anti-tank is real.

At the moment a G.Lancer is not in the plan. But I do have a G.Reaper and Brutalis/Redemptor Dreadnoughts. I'm itching to try the Brutallis as it resembles the Furioso, it has better armour than the Reaper, and as a Blood Angel I can send it in melee with the Red Thirst bonuses.

 

So, until the Codex Astartes arrives in a few weeks with the new info, this is the final iteration of the list.

The 15 points remaining will be used by an enhancement, probably the Visage of Death on the captain, to aid the relatively small squad of BG to claim control of objectives.

Or should it be Icon of the Angel? But that only works IF the opponent chooses to fall back.

 

 SoS - 1985 points

 

120 Dante

230 Assault Intercessors JP (10) (estimated)

  90 Sanguinary Priest JP

 

  80 Primaris Captain, sword & shield

180 Bladeguard Vets (6)

  50 Bladeguard Ancient

240 Land Raider

 

  75 Primaris Lieutenant

160 Assault Intercessors (10)

  80 Sanguinary Priest

240 Land Raider

 

175 Brutallis Dreadnought

115 Inceptors (3)

150 Whirlwind

[OverchargeThis!]

You actually have a good amount of firepower in that list. I'd be curious to see how it plays out against various factions.

[Karhedron]

18 hours ago, Spyros said:

The 15 points remaining will be used by an enhancement, probably the Visage of Death on the captain, to aid the relatively small squad of BG to claim control of objectives.

Or should it be Icon of the Angel? But that only works IF the opponent chooses to fall back.

 

I would go for Visage of Death for exactly the reasons you describe. Icon of the Angel is nifty when it triggers but too situational for my liking.

[Spyros]

Well, nope....

This list doesn't work for me. Even though it capitalizes on SoS detachment's melee bonuses, it has too few units to survive through five rounds. The opponent is not intimidated by two Land Raiders. Not to mention my atrocious dice rolls, both (!) Land Raiders fail to kill anything. And me being a noob general leads to struggling to time/position the units for a simultaneous charge. The deployment zone is also left undefended with only the Whirlwind left back.

 

I 'm now designing a more balanced (I hope) list with more units and more shooting, trying to cover all the gaps mentioned here. I can't bring myself to use one of the new detachments, except perhaps the 1st company, they just don't feel like Blood Angels...

[Paladin777]

If you're gonna take a unit of 10 jump assault troops with a SP I think that VVets with storm shields are the better pick. you lose DW on the charge, but they still get LH. 

 

They're also fabulously tanky. I took a squad of 5 with SP and their durability was comparable to the gravis units I took.

 

 

on a related note, I genuinely believe that a regular jump captain is better than Dante. 
 

having Red Rampage on tap is better than +1 to hit, plus it puts the VVets up to S7 on the charge.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Paladin777

[Spyros]

The Vanguard vets are not that attracting to me, with the storm shields being the only selling point. Offensively are virtually the same against most foes. I 'm trying to use movement to avoid being hit and charge first. And I 'd like to get the new models...

I would still use Dante, at least a few times, and one of the selling points is the +1 on charge roll.

 

So I tried to balance the list earlier list. There are a lot of things I want to use but there's no space in 2000 points, despite the leaked points adjustments...

 

SoS - 1995 points

 

120 Dante

170 Assault Intercessors JP (10)

  90 Sanguinary Priest JP

 

100 Primaris Captain, sword & shield, Artisan of War

180 Bladeguard Vets (6)

  60 Primaris Chaplain

  85 DC Intercessors (5), Chainswords, 1 Power fist, 1 Plasma pistol 

260 Land Raider Redeemer

 

175 Brutallis Dreadnought, Multimeltas, Claws

 

200 Redemptor Dreadnought, MacroPlasma Incinerator, Onslaught gatling

 

185 Terminator squad (5), Assault Cannon, Fists (in deep strike reserve)

 

  85 Suppressors

140 Ballistus Dreadnought

145 Whirlwind

 

So, the last 3 units are guarding the rear and have enough range to hit anything, as long as I can find a line of sight.

The woefully bad at hitting Land Raider has been replaced by a Redeemer that now carries two squads.

Dante is deployed on the battlefield with only the Terminators staying in reserve.

 

The thing is, I 'd like to emphasize a bit more on the melee. I really feel the Terminators need their captain. He can "assure" a charge from deep strike and can choose to give them free Red Rampage in case of charging a vehicle. The only thing I can remove to get the captain in is the Suppressors and then I'll only have two units at the back.

Then i 'll have 15 points space to put a Visage of Death on one of the two Captains probably.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Spyros

[Paladin777]

I think the Jump Pack marines are better served as small harrassment unit myself, but whatever works for you!

Edited October 6, 2023 by Paladin777

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, Paladin777 said:

I think the Jump Pack marines are better served as small harrassment unit myself, but whatever works for you!

 

I was thinking that (roughly) 50 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2s, S5 AP-2, and with Red Rampage, would be nothing to laught at.

[Paladin777]

I'll see your 50 attacks at Str 5, and raise you to 50 attacks at Str 7, AP-2, with LH, that are more likely to get there because of the storm shields, alongside a few melta pistol shots for good measure...

[Spyros]

I agree that for high toughness opponents like orks, custodes, geath guard etc., S7 is better.

Still, I 'm on a path where I do not buy anymore old models that soon could be replaced by the primaris version.

I 'm sticking plain assault intercessors for now. And Terminators.

[Paladin777]

Ok, that's fair. 

[DemonGSides]

Could just make some Primaris Vanguard Vets.  Bling out some Assault Intercessors with some extra bits laying around, slap some jetpacks on them, give them the approriate wargear, I can't see a reason not to.

[Spyros]

@DemonGSides For me it's mostly a matter of resources and time, both of which are precious. I believe that when the new VV come in the future they wont look or have the options of the firstborn VV, so I don't want to invest on that.

- - -

 

In other news, yesterday I tried the list with a terminator captain instead of suppressors. For the first time in a long time, it worked for me.

Despite my usual noob mistakes and forgetting rules, the list worked almost as intended and managed a brutal tie 58-58 against a seasoned Ork player. Quite thematically Dante managed to kill Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka no less.

I particularly enjoyed the dreadnoughts. In a possible variation for the future I could remove the terminators (if I find the deep striking needless) and add my 2nd Brutallis and something else instead!