News article: How arrival of Pokemon changed GW

[Domhnall]

https://www.eurogamer.net/how-pokemons-arrival-in-the-uk-changed-games-workshop-forever

 

This popped up on my feed and thought id share here as a bit of interest. Basically, how Pokemon arriving in the UK in 1999 affected GW at the time and their future direction. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

=][= Moved to Amicus as it's a better fit here =][=

[apologist]

Interesting read – thanks for sharing, @Domhnall.

[Lysimachus]

Very interesting. This bit:

 

Quote

Still, though, Prentice faced division from within. There remained those among the Games Workshop higher-ups who believed a younger audience really was the way to go. "We certainly had one strong faction that would have argued that reducing the age profile was an entirely good thing," Prentice says, "capturing them earlier, keeping them longer,

producing Junior Warhammer, let's call it - an easy clip-together version with different colour armies playable right from the box. Rather than the more complicated building models, painting... The more sophisticated hobby. And that was a tension that was in the business certainly the whole time I was there."

 

got my attention. Seems like those guys have definitely had an influence over recent years.

 

 

 

Edited September 18 by Lysimachus

[Xenith]

Interesting read, thanks for sharing!

 

Bit of Correlation/causation effect going on there in attributing increased revenue in 2000/2001 with marketing to older hobbyists rather than obtaining the LoTR licene and making the LoTR game at the same time...

 

Quote

 

There remained those among the Games Workshop higher-ups who believed a younger audience really was the way to go. "We certainly had one strong faction that would have argued that reducing the age profile was an entirely good thing," Prentice says, "capturing them earlier, keeping them longer, producing Junior Warhammer, let's call it - an easy clip-together version with different colour armies playable right from the box. Rather than the more complicated building models, painting... The more sophisticated hobby. And that was a tension that was in the business certainly the whole time I was there."

 

But Prentice's side got the upper hand and the company implemented a cross-business working party to refocus Games Workshop on who they believed the core customers really were: the older audience. And it worked. Within six months the company was apparently back in double-digit growth. "We recognised the problem, got together, came up with a plan to put it right and put it right," Prentice says.

 

 

The route they took saw profits fall after LoTR finished, followed by stagnation for over a decade, while the push-fit models and accessability of the hobby to others has seen profits skyrocket. 

Referring to the above, this ties in with rumours that GW never conducted market research. If they did,they might know exactly what was driving the boost in 2001. I also attribute the growth then to the hugely successful Eye of Terror campaign, that invigorated the world into the hobby, and is still talked about today. 

[RikuEru]

46 minutes ago, Xenith said:

Interesting read, thanks for sharing!

 

Bit of Correlation/causation effect going on there in attributing increased revenue in 2000/2001 with marketing to older hobbyists rather than obtaining the LoTR licene and making the LoTR game at the same time...

 

 

The route they took saw profits fall after LoTR finished, followed by stagnation for over a decade, while the push-fit models and accessability of the hobby to others has seen profits skyrocket. 

Referring to the above, this ties in with rumours that GW never conducted market research. If they did,they might know exactly what was driving the boost in 2001. I also attribute the growth then to the hugely successful Eye of Terror campaign, that invigorated the world into the hobby, and is still talked about today. 

 

Add to that, that this is absolutely contrary to what I myself experienced and have heard repeatedly on the Internet over the past two decades.

The LotR model range and the corresponding partworks Magazine (distributed by DeAgostini over here in Germany) was what brought in a bunch of new customers into actual brick & mortar GW shops - and many of them where merely in their early teens. I know that all 4-5 stores in my closest vicinity were filled with teens in the years of LotR 'high tide' - and many of those branched out into 40k & Fantasy to get a "new" fix as they collected more and more LotR. (Dawn of War 1 and 2 probably also causing an influx of teen customers)

[Noserenda]

Reading it over myself it does make some sense, when i was working in the stores during the LoTR boom it was absolutely bringing in the kids, but aiming at 12+ and essentially discouraging the younger market, we would sell them stuff but not directly promote to them. 

I think the fad comment also includes GW stuff, like, the younger market will get a fad for warhammer, or pokemon and go mad for it, before moving on and broadly forgetting about the thing until nostalgia comes around later, so it wasnt so much a slump in gw sales, as much as they were riding a fad rise the year before and then those kids moved on to pokemon, meaning sales growth dropped off, probably in line with the year before the fads growth, if that makes sense? 

Pokemon cards were still huge though, and we still had to tell kids to stow em lol.

[Lexington]

Heh, it feels strange to be old enough to remember these things that've been banished to the memory hole of ancient history. The Pokemon profit warning definitely caused some distinct chatter in the mailing lists and newly-hatched forums that comprised the community way back when. What a fun little trip down memory lane.

[Xenith]

53 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I think the fad comment also includes GW stuff, like, the younger market will get a fad for warhammer, or pokemon and go mad for it, before moving on and broadly forgetting about the thing

 

Little did GW know, that they had a bunch of customers who purchased during the LoTR 'fad' and stopped playing when they stopped supporting the game in store, or so actively. Like, I don't know the full story, but the decisions made by the CEO do not seem like the right ones, driven by a lack of understanding. I do realise that data was harder to come by in 1999 also, but part of that was presumably GW's reticence to use computers, again, a decision from the top. 

[Noserenda]

56 minutes ago, Xenith said:

 

Little did GW know, that they had a bunch of customers who purchased during the LoTR 'fad' and stopped playing when they stopped supporting the game in store, or so actively. Like, I don't know the full story, but the decisions made by the CEO do not seem like the right ones, driven by a lack of understanding. I do realise that data was harder to come by in 1999 also, but part of that was presumably GW's reticence to use computers, again, a decision from the top. 

The LoTR drop wasnt really to do with GW support, it certainly kept up whilst i was working with the company but nothing was ever as great as the surges under the three movies and partwork so the customers slowly dribbled away unfortunately, not sure there was anything GW could have done to stop that, it was on New Lines back.

Now arguably GW should have definitely planned better for that slump and done better when it hit, but then its the reason we have a much more diverse wargaming market these days too...

[Scribe]

Interesting.

 

Giving up ones core market for kids leads to a crash?

 

Interesting.

[Robbienw]

3 hours ago, Lexington said:

Heh, it feels strange to be old enough to remember these things that've been banished to the memory hole of ancient history. The Pokemon profit warning definitely caused some distinct chatter in the mailing lists and newly-hatched forums that comprised the community way back when. What a fun little trip down memory lane.

I remember it well, lots of talk on Portent and RGMW about it.  Was a good time in those days to be on the internet chatting about hobbies.
 

I seem to recall some of the outspoken types on the forums at the time confidently asserting it was going to lead to Hasbro buying GW! 

Edited September 18 by Robbienw

[MegaVolt87]

4 hours ago, Robbienw said:

I remember it well, lots of talk on Portent and RGMW about it.  Was a good time in those days to be on the internet chatting about hobbies.
 

I seem to recall some of the outspoken types on the forums at the time confidently asserting it was going to lead to Hasbro buying GW! 

 

Even if Hasbro bought GW, I think we would be still in the same place today, just the road would have been different. Hasbro would have largely let GW cook. 

[JayJapanB]

I wonder what the other side of the coin was like for Pokemon. 

Like from what I lived through, Pokemon cards were much more of a "fad" than Warhammer was. Pokemon cards were way more wide spread though.
Everybody in school had them. But I don't know anyone involved with them today.
However, lots of my friends have dipped into Warhammer again, to various degrees.

 

I'm well aware we all live in our own bubbles, and not insinuating that Warhammer is even remotely as popular as pokemon or pokemon cards. 
Pokemon videogames have retained popularity at wide age brackets, but cards? Unsure.

[MegaVolt87]

Pokemon cards saw a resurgence with the app game release, you can buy physical cards and get a redeem code to get a digital booster pack online. I think the digital Pokemon TCG beat MTG and yugioh with the physical to digital connection. During the pandemic, Pokemon and TCG's had a spike in general. Compared to MTG, I found Pokemon ended up cheaper for standard format vs MTG, which I roped in my MTG buddies for about a year, though we are back to commander and modern. Pokemon cards always managed to stick around, I remember my younger cousin loved them as gifts in primary school, she is 20 now but still watches the shows I believe. 

 

Now, GW not doing real market research or properly understanding their customer base is no real suprise. They have been unable to strike the perfect balance of satisfying existing customers and gaining new ones to this day. Like that old Simpsons episode where Sideshow Bob is walking and getting hot in the face with a rake at every step, that's how GW is. 

 

Edit- Also Pokemon has been very successful in not only gaining new/ younger audience, appeasing older fans, they also have successfully increased the female demographic/ participation, something GW is still failing to do, we are still very much a very male dominated fandom/ hobby in warhammer. 

Edited September 19 by MegaVolt87

[Noserenda]

Yeah Pokemon had a strong start, but it never really went away, they were still a LGS supporting concern when i was running my shop a decade later and even recently i was in an indie shop and there were kids playing it on a bunch of tables. Never got into it myself, gave it a try once and it just felt like a more complicated version of Magic, but kids do love them some complexity! :D 

[roryokane]

This is fascinating. That bit about push-fit miniatures really stuck around though, eh? Pretty sure we had push-fit plastic 2nd Ed minis, and then in AOBR, and now... they're everywhere! Which would be fine if the rest of the models were backwards compatible, but the Mk VIs certainly aren't, and I suspect neither will anything else be from here on out. :(

[alfred_the_great]

You had push fit models in space crusade and space hulk, so….

[Noserenda]

I suspect they would have been even simpler, like, not on a sprue simpler. They werent too far out of the era of all plastics being extremely simple in one or two bits and easily pushfit except for shields, so to be considered more beginner friendly than those is a bit of a shift, let alone the modern CAD nightmare push fits :D 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Seems like they still ended up going to for the younger audience eventually…seems like a lot of stuff they view as ‘intro sets’ are push fit just like they discussed all those years ago.

[gideon stargreave]

6 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Seems like they still ended up going to for the younger audience eventually…seems like a lot of stuff they view as ‘intro sets’ are push fit just like they discussed all those years ago.

I’m not sure they’re going after younger players anymore than they were in 1996. The promo pics from then had quote of lot Of adolescents in them, whereas nowadays most of the promo stuff is of adults 

[Bung]

23 hours ago, MegaVolt87 said:

Edit- Also Pokemon has been very successful in not only gaining new/ younger audience, appeasing older fans, they also have successfully increased the female demographic/ participation, something GW is still failing to do, we are still very much a very male dominated fandom/ hobby in warhammer. 

 

The problem with the female demographic is not GWs antics.

Its the antics of the old and young neckbeards in the Nerdstores that drive woman away.

I met alot of woman playing Boardgames, TT Card Games, TT Games and painting Miniatures.

When you talk with them there are a few reasons why they dont go to the stores and order online and only play in groups of people they know.

That starts with lack of hygiene (Most Woman a more sensible), lack of respect when talking to them to getting unwanted attention and being hit on.

 

So if you want to see more Woman at your store, Events, etc. you have to improve your behaviour and remove mysogonistic neckbeards.

 

 

[Petitioner's City]

You know I was recently in a major central Edinburgh gaming store and the manager was convinced (to the point of "you can't convince me otherwise") that GW's worlds and products were intended for "ten year olds". As someone who described themselves as a heresy collector I was surprised, since modern heresy of course originated not in child-focused black books and novel series. I think he would zero on the elements of this article that confirm his views and ignore the rest 

 

Wonderful read and great to find out what Prentice has done since!