Points shuffling

[CCE1981]

 

Looks like there will be a points shuffle different from the Codex and what is currently in the Field Manual.

 

Overall it kinda looks like some internal balance shuffling.
 

 

[Karhedron]

I am not sure about this. I expect GW to clarify that the current digital points are the correct ones. Otherwise they have jacked Desolators from 120 up to 200 points and are now going to whack them straight back down again.

[Orange Knight]

From what I heard in this video a lot of the points will be similar to what was in the last point update before the codex, but the new update with supercede what is printed.

 

Desolators are going to be 200 points, and limited to 5. I think this makes them a very poor unit, but GW have doubled down.

[Orange Knight]

Auspex has done a nice rundown with visuals:

 

 

[unrealchamp88]

I think at this point i'm gonna stick with the Index Marines until GW get their big boy pants on and sort themselves out. OoM isn't fun, flavourful or particularly useful at this point imo, dropping points is a shuffle toward 'horde marines' and the changes to unit abilities seem....unnecessary. 

[Lemondish]

6 hours ago, unrealchamp88 said:

I think at this point i'm gonna stick with the Index Marines until GW get their big boy pants on and sort themselves out. OoM isn't fun, flavourful or particularly useful at this point imo, dropping points is a shuffle toward 'horde marines' and the changes to unit abilities seem....unnecessary. 

 

Hmm, it seems a vast majority of the point drops in this latest update actually occurred to characters rather than to units. There's definitely some key benefits to vehicles in it, but outside of the dreads most of those have some kind of force multiplier (transport, Storm Speeder effects, aircraft etc).

 

I am curious as to what you mean by playing Index Marines. Just print off a copy of the current index and the original pre-balance points and that's how you'll play?

[Galron]

Loving the new changes. Some minor changes in my list allows me to add two new units to my RG list :)

[Dracos]

1 hour ago, Galron said:

Loving the new changes. Some minor changes in my list allows me to add two new units to my RG list :)

Captain Galton you have been recalled to the Ravenspire to explain (share) these comments 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Dracos

[Paladin777]

Honestly my list hasn't seen anywhere near enough of a points drop to make up the OoM nerf.

 

edit: just did the math, and with appropriate proxies (ironclad becoming furioso and attack bikes becoming ATV's) the list I brought to last weekend's RTT dropped a grand total of 20 points. That's not a lot...

Edited October 6, 2023 by Paladin777

[Malakithe]

Not sure why people are saying the Ballistus competes with the Lancer since it has worse weapons for AT

[Rhavien]

Ballistus has four anti tank shots vs the two from a lancer maybe? The lancers laser is more deadly though. The dread also has a 2+ save. Lancer has 3+ but is defensively identical otherwise. I can see why they compete against each other. 

[Karhedron]

If you want dedicated anti-tank the Lancer is probably superior but the Ballistus is not too shabby and is more flexible. 4 shots makes it a good threat to things like Terminators and the missiles can frag infantry if you run out of hard targets.

[Galron]

16 hours ago, Dracos said:

Captain Galton you have been recalled to the Ravenspire to explain (share) these comments 

 

 

My force is all infantry. All the characters I use dropped in points significantly. I save 45 points just off phobos librarians(off the top of my head, going by what I remember about auspex tactics), my two terminator squads dropped by 10s each. I think the only existing units in my force that didnt drop in points were eliminators and infiltrators.

[Casual Heresy]

3 hours ago, Karhedron said:

If you want dedicated anti-tank the Lancer is probably superior but the Ballistus is not too shabby and is more flexible. 4 shots makes it a good threat to things like Terminators and the missiles can frag infantry if you run out of hard targets.

 

I've got 2x Ballistus and 2x Lancers in one project I'm working on. Plan is to have one dread and one tank acting as a pair. Ballistus fires at a tank/big beastie first for its re-rolls to hit against a target not below half strength, lancer fires second to finish the target with its own re-rolls.

 

If these points shuffles pan out  it means I can probably fit a Techmarine into that project and try out the Iron hands detachment. It will also benefit my tank heavy UM list. Don't think the drops will benefit my triple infernus squad in Redeemers list plan, but thats probably for the best (that list is enough of a potential war crime already, it dosen't need anymore help!).

Edited October 6, 2023 by Casual Heresy

[Dracos]

 

@Galron Interesting I’m finding points in  my list didn’t change as much as shifted from Terminators to Aggressors. Aggressors have always been a core of my list I even have a different paint scheme for them aka my Primaris Chapters version of the Deathwing. 
 

Scouts not counting as Phobos but being dirt cheap should have an interesting fall on effect for a lot of (RG) armies I think. 
 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Dracos

[Lemondish]

2 hours ago, Casual Heresy said:

Don't think the drops will benefit my triple infernus squad in Redeemers list plan, but thats probably for the best (that list is enough of a potential war crime already, it dosen't need anymore help!).

Planning to play that one with the Firestorm detachment I imagine?

 

That list sounds like a super fun time. Even if you lose, literally everything will still be on fire.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Lemondish

[Emperor Ming]

Do we know which points are right yet?

[Paladin777]

Yes we do. 
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UTS4nkwU88Y

[Dracos]

I'm extremely lazy when it comes to tracking points. I'll just have to hope Battlescribe updates them soonish

[Malakithe]

12 hours ago, Casual Heresy said:

triple infernus squad in Redeemers list plan

Consider me intrigued 

[unrealchamp88]

On 10/5/2023 at 5:39 PM, Lemondish said:

 

Hmm, it seems a vast majority of the point drops in this latest update actually occurred to characters rather than to units. There's definitely some key benefits to vehicles in it, but outside of the dreads most of those have some kind of force multiplier (transport, Storm Speeder effects, aircraft etc).

 

I am curious as to what you mean by playing Index Marines. Just print off a copy of the current index and the original pre-balance points and that's how you'll play?

 

I've got the PDF of the Astartes Index from the beginning of 10th, plus the MFM from then, so I have the matching points as well.

 

Tbh, I had some reservations at the beginning because there seemed to be something of a contradiction with the statement of 'reduced lethality', then all the marine HQ units lost a wound as well from 9th. Personally, i'd rather pay the points premium for such the privilege of the extra wound. In the same vein, i'd rather they re-tooled OoM and left the points alone. 

Instead of points drops i'd rather see stat or ability buffs, personally. I saw a comment in another thread not long ago, someone said something to the effect of 'i'd rather see all marine units gain a wound and a 6+ FNP and a points increase, than a points drop'. The sentiment has stuck with me and made reconsider the value behind points drops as a means of buffing a faction.