Corrupted EC Rules

[darkseren1ty]

Just speculation/wish listing.

 

so with the fulgrim ascended getting released, War com has confirmed that EC will be getting corrupted rules. 
 

I’m guessing a new RoW. But I’m hopeful for new units as well.

 

if they give kakophoni line, that would be quite strong. 
 

a sonic dread is something I miss from 40k. It would be nice to see again in game. 
 

anyone else got any guesses?

[Noserenda]

Id expect a RoW but it might be an entirely new set of Legion rules given how different the Corrupted legions are, especially the Emperors children, with different traits gear and potentially even special units, albeit with duplication.

I wouldnt expect much from the former, but the latter could switch things up a fair bit like adding more sonic weapons.

[HeinzD]

7 hours ago, darkseren1ty said:

Just speculation/wish listing.

 

so with the fulgrim ascended getting released, War com has confirmed that EC will be getting corrupted rules. 
 

I’m guessing a new RoW. But I’m hopeful for new units as well.

 

if they give kakophoni line, that would be quite strong. 
 

a sonic dread is something I miss from 40k. It would be nice to see again in game. 
 

anyone else got any guesses?

As much as id love kakophoni with line, i dont think thats gonna be the case. I suppose its gonna be something completely new, since we already got a RoW for Kakophoni and sonic upgrades. 

Maybe we will get something similar to the word bearers corrupted keyword. 

[Marshal Loss]

The original announcement for the book cited 'special rules and rites for particularly corrupted hosts of Emperor's Children'. The pre-order announcement says 'army rules for a corrupted Emperor's Children Legiones Hereticus force'. This could could pretty much mean anything, especially as WHC isn't always precise with their wording, but I'd certainly hope that we're getting more than one rite of war (if WHC were referring to rites of war, and know what a plural is).

 

I'm hoping for a couple of suitably insane rites of war with no tangible strategic boons but tons of lunacy, and some new or upgraded surgical augments (as the current ones are specifically noted as being prototypes), maybe which give the 'corrupted' rule. Buffs to Kakophoni would be a nice bonus as well (even if Line is probably a pipe dream) as I think they need a slight nudge to put them in a good place.

 

Beyond that, the sky's the limit - a modified/new Legiones Astartes (EC) rule, a new reaction, new warlord trait(s), new wargear, expanded access to (new?) sonic weapons for other units and maybe Dreadnoughts/Vehicles, rules for the reborn Eidolon, a unique fleshcrafter/apothecary consul, widespread combat drugs, access to the 'corrupted' rule, Fabius Bile and his circus of lunacy - there is just so much they could do, EC have such rich and characterful lore.

 

Given Andy Hoare's involvement with 3.5 and his gorgeous EC army/extensive experience playing them, I'm sure we'll get something flavourful and fun. Fingers crossed he and the team have gone absolutely nuts and there's a large array of options awaiting us. Some late heresy EC colour plates in the book would be great.

 

(I'm also hoping that the WHC team at least give us a taster of the EC rules in an article sometime this week)

[Brother Kraskor]

Marshal Loss has said everything (and more!) on my wishlist. But I'll be happy with a solitary RoW and maybe combat drugs.

 

Line Kakophoni would be utterly broken though. 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I found this, can be of interest. Is a review from Goonhammer

https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-exemplary-battles-of-the-age-of-darkness-volume-one/

 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

All of those EC reveals so far sound pretty sh*tty to be honest.

 

Also, come on GW, only one new Exemplary Battles unit in the book, really ? Four times copy past and one new unit. Yuck.

 

 

[TheTrans]

On 10/16/2023 at 11:30 PM, Unknown Legionnaire said:

All of those EC reveals so far sound pretty sh*tty to be honest.

 

Also, come on GW, only one new Exemplary Battles unit in the book, really ? Four times copy past and one new unit. Yuck.

 

 

"I'm glad 30k is a supported game now" - Some GW Scrub

Outside of (sometimes, very odd choice) plastic releases, HH2.0 rules and people with non-marine armies have had a pretty rough top 18 months. 
 

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, TheTrans said:

"I'm glad 30k is a supported game now" - Some GW Scrub

Outside of (sometimes, very odd choice) plastic releases, HH2.0 rules and people with non-marine armies have had a pretty rough top 18 months. 
 

 

Hey it's all right; an extremely small group of people got to rewrite the rules to create ay compositions they wanted to play with, since the only build 1st didn't support was "walk marine infantry and dreads across the board". Toss in a stratagem system unbalanced enough to throw off a 40k player, and you've got a game system that completely justified having less faqs, factions, army lists, and units than 1st. 

[Dark Legionnare]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:04 PM, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

Hey it's all right; an extremely small group of people got to rewrite the rules to create ay compositions they wanted to play with, since the only build 1st didn't support was "walk marine infantry and dreads across the board". Toss in a stratagem system unbalanced enough to throw off a 40k player, and you've got a game system that completely justified having less faqs, factions, army lists, and units than 1st. 

Preach!

We've reverted to 1.0 wholesale (We still played mostly 1.0, but snuck in some 2.0's as stuff like militia, demons, etc... came out) in the past couple months and everyone's been happier for it.  Really is a shame, like you said, of how absolutely hamfisted clearly-not-well-tested 2.0 has been since launch.

The quad-las contemptor being an undisputed king of the battlefield that at range only another quad las contemptor, HWS w/10 lascannons, or superheavy can even dare shoot at is still an absolute eye-rolling groaning moment from all of us.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Brother Kraskor]

The more I think about the rules, the more frustrated I get. It's like GW deliberately set out to punish players for wanting the beautiful new model. There's literally zero upside to the new legion rules outside of Preferred Enemy (Stupefied reads like it was written by very early AI), and massive downside in losing Shriekers and Flawless Execution. Fulgrims rule's are also pretty pants, we basically pay near 200 points for a jump pack and arguably substantially worse duelling ability. It's not even close to being balanced. And we have to pay £35 for what, four pages of rules (because the rest was already free anyway)? GW's disregard for the consumer really laid bare on this one. I'd wager any frequenter of this forum could've written better rules and made more sensible design decisions with the  book (no Sunkillers?) in literally an hour.

[Gorgoff]

I absolutely agree.

Having the "security copy" pdf of the rules I instantly canceled my book order.

 

It is just not worth it for two or three pages which interest me. 

They didn't re-work any of the units in it at all which tells us what we have to expect for other units which now are utter trash like the baneblade chassis tanks or other unplayable stuff like Assault Bikes.

[SkimaskMohawk]

7 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

I absolutely agree.

Having the "security copy" pdf of the rules I instantly canceled my book order.

 

It is just not worth it for two or three pages which interest me. 

They didn't re-work any of the units in it at all which tells us what we have to expect for other units which now are utter trash like the baneblade chassis tanks or other unplayable stuff like Assault Bikes.

 

I feel like the only hope for units like the attack bikes is if they make a dedicated kit for it now that it's been discontinued from 40k. Then they'd presumably refresh the rules to encourage mass buying, but at the same all the tank rules are pretty underwhelming so idk.

 

They seem rather allergic to having more viable options in the sandbox.

[Marshal Loss]

On 10/31/2023 at 6:56 PM, Brother Kraskor said:

The more I think about the rules, the more frustrated I get.

 

I'm super bummed about it. It feels like a rough first draft thrown in a book to accompany Fulgrim Transfigured without any real thought and certainly no playtesting. Really hope others are also emailing the heresyfaq@gwplc.com address with some requests for clarification and polite (but firm) feedback, because if this is how they leave us...I just can't understand how anybody thought this was fine. The odd unit being a bit pants I get, some legions being a little worse than others isn't a big deal, but this is just bad.

[Brother Kraskor]

51 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

 

Really hope others are also emailing the heresyfaq@gwplc.com address with some requests for clarification and polite (but firm) feedback, because if this is how they leave us...I just can't understand how anybody thought this was fine. The odd unit being a bit pants I get, some legions being a little worse than others isn't a big deal, but this is just bad.

May be useful to compile the things that need FAQing then?

 

- Can we use generic RoW as Heretic Astartes

- Can we use old EC RoW as Heretic Astartes

I actually can't think of much else that needs FAQing, the rest is just rubbish but not ambiguous.

[Deakz28]

 

20 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

May be useful to compile the things that need FAQing then?

 

- Can we use generic RoW as Heretic Astartes

- Can we use old EC RoW as Heretic Astartes

I actually can't think of much else that needs FAQing, the rest is just rubbish but not ambiguous.

- Daemon primarchs can’t have stats negatively modified, how does this interact with unwieldy etc 

- if a model already comes specifically with a specific surgical augment how does that react under the rules without such things e.g Lucius, Kakophoni and eidolon 

 

- Under the stage is Set rule does Fulgrim coming in from reserves follow all the ordinary rules of doing so.. no charging etc or is this a unique deployment

-Daemon Primarch sub types select models that take damage from attacks, how does this interact with a challenge when the opposing model is attached to a unit

 

I noticed many more weird interactions on my first couple read through a but I don’t have the book( read as pages) at hand

 

but here’s some questions I simply have as to why did this get made?

- why is fulgrim brutal 2 with only 3 attacks when a model with brutal 3, 6 attacks and without unwieldy costs 100 less points?

- Why can Hereticus ROW be only used with Fulgrim and not without

Edited November 3, 2023 by Deakz28

[Deakz28]

Sent my email off, not including my extras! Hope we can get some answers, if someone recovers a reply, would they mind letting us know the contents? Thank you! Hopefully with enough emails we can get a response, maybe even a update to some rules akin to a data slate for 40k

 

I did however ask for a design commentary on the reason and purpose behind Wrathful Blows

Edited November 3, 2023 by Deakz28

[Brother Kraskor]

Think we also need to ask about Inductii. Works off Legiones Astartes (X) right? How bonkers that late-stage heresy EC can't use Inductii.

[Marshal Loss]

10 hours ago, Brother Kraskor said:

Think we also need to ask about Inductii. Works off Legiones Astartes (X) right? How bonkers that late-stage heresy EC can't use Inductii.

 

Also things like Apothecaries, Techmarines, etc, where their abilities work off LA

[Brother Kraskor]

Just sent this off:

 

 

Please may I ask the following questions about the rules for Legiones Hereticus, recently released in the codified Exemplary Battles.

• Can Emperor's Children using Legiones Hereticus rules use the Generic Rites of War in Liber Hereticus?
• Can Emperor's Children using Legiones Hereticus rules use the legion-specific Rites of War in Liber Hereticus? And if yes, ca 3rd Company Elite Legiones Hereticus purchase unit-wide Debased Augments in the same manner as Legiones Astartes can purchase Surgical Augments?
• Rules such as Apothecarion Detachment, Techmarine Covenant, Inductii etc. work off of the Legiones Astartes (X) keyword. Although never explicitly stated, it is implied that Legiones Hereticus (X) replaces Legiones Astartes (X) on unit entries, but no mention is made of whether this also applies to rules such as Apothecaries etc. Please can you clarify?
• For Fulgrim's Stage is Set rules under the Maraviglia RoW, is his arrival from Reserves treated as normal (no charging) or like a Deep Strike (charging allowed)?
• Where a unit entry allows it to purchase a Surgical Augment (Palatines, Phoenix Guard, Lucius), is that option removed if they are played as Legiones Hereticus? 
• Where units already have Surgical Augments in their profile (Eidolon, Kakophoni), are these augments removed if they are played as Legiones Hereticus? If so, do they get to choose a replacement?

Finally, though I appreciate this may not be your department, I have to say as a long-time loyal customer of GW and EC player, I find the rules for Legiones Hereticus (EC) to be confused and underwhelming. Are you able to offer any comment on the thoughts behind the downgrade to Fulgrim's duelling ability for a vast increase in points, and the highly muddled and almost useless Stupefied rule (especially as it replaces Flawless Execution, a simple and effective rule)? Thank you.

[Brother Kraskor]

I'm actually thinking if we do get allowed 3rd co with Debased Augments, we could become quite strong. Imagine 20 Assault Marines with Rending (5+) Hammer of Wrath 2. Thats better than striking at one initiative higher - you strike before anyone! And then you still get your normal attacks after.

 

Or how about Lascannon heavies or Kakophoni with Precision Shots (5+). That'd be very cheeky. 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I sincerly hope you'll get an answer to that email and I appreciate the effort.

 

Whenever I mailed the FW team during the days of 1st edition, I always got an answer in a rather timely fashion.

Nowadays, with the centralized GW 'rules' team, that might not neccessarily be the case. But fingers crossed.

 

In any case, Fulgrim Transfigured needs a serious points drop to be seen on the table at all.

And that's on top of the clarifications you inquired about.

[Noserenda]

If you send it to the Heresy FAQ email it does not go to any centralised team, the Specialist games folks get it and do read it. I dont know why it then disappears down a black hole from there *shrug* 

[Brother Kraskor]

Started to have a bit of hope for the Stupefied rule today. Corrupted EC can effectively hold objectives til they are shot off entirely, that's not so bad. 
 

Also, is there a rule anywhere preventing damage mitigation rolls getting as good as a 3+? Because a Fearless unit using the advanced reaction to become stupefied would get +3 to the 6+++. A chonky unit of cataphractii with a Herald would become extremely tough to shift off an objective. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Brother Kraskor

[Brother Kraskor]

Another snag with the rules: Daemon Primarch rule says, for the purposes of any special rules or effects, Fulgrim is considered to have both 'Daemon' and 'Primarch' rule. Daemon rule means +1 Strength & Toughness for Turns 1&2 etc. - does this also apply? Who knows!