Tactical squads: 10 or 20 members?

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

I have several Tactical squads in my SoH army. I made them, mostly, of 20 members strong  but easily divided in two of 10 using one miniature as "Optio"(In roman armies, the adjutant and second in command of a Centurion), putting an easily removable items (like a crested helmet hanging from the belt, etc) on it. So if I use them as an squad of 10, this guy can act as sarge and in a squad on 20, as a normal marine.

 

Well,I like to use squads of 10, I think is better to maneuver in the battlefield and use covers (and of couse the option of take Rhinos as assigned transport),  but I see many people to use tactical squads of 20 in their armies. 

After something said here about using apothecaries in Tacticals and observe some other armies (Webs, WD,...), what is best in your opinion: squads of 10 members or more that 10 (up 20)?

[HeinzD]

1 hour ago, AGRAMAR said:

I have several Tactical squads in my SoH army. I made them, mostly, of 20 members strong  but easily divided in two of 10 using one miniature as "Optio"(In roman armies, the adjutant and second in command of a Centurion), putting an easily removable items (like a crested helmet hanging from the belt, etc) on it. So if I use them as an squad of 10, this guy can act as sarge and in a squad on 20, as a normal marine.

 

Well,I like to use squads of 10, I think is better to maneuver in the battlefield and use covers (and of couse the option of take Rhinos as assigned transport),  but I see many people to use tactical squads of 20 in their armies. 

After something said here about using apothecaries in Tacticals and observe some other armies (Webs, WD,...), what is best in your opinion: squads of 10 members or more that 10 (up 20)?

The simple answer would be I really like/prefer squads of 20, but thats in a vacuum not considering things like army composition.

Stick an apothecary to them an they got a lot of staying power. You can put them on an objective and they will definitly stay there, 3+ SV/4+ FNP will tank a lot. You can also just put your artificer sergant infront of everything, without giving it a second thought, because your apothecary also got 8LD. Also, being a lot of guys (21 with apothecary) makes them rather unlikely to fall back. 

I try to always bring a block of 20, but like you already said, squads of 10 are really flexible and id rather have a 10 man squad sitting on an backfield objective doing basically nothing then a 20 man squad with apothecary. 

So id prefer a 20 man squad and 2x 10 man squads over just playing 2x 20 man. 

Also, if you play any RoW making some units line, like Pride of the Legion you can basically forget about 20 man squads, but id still consider 10 man squads for some more cheap line units or said backfield objectives.

[Gorgoff]

15.

Nobody has room for 20 models.  Unless you play on nearly empty tables of course which -I know- a lot of you people do for whatever reason.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I have 1 20 man brick of bolter boys with chainswords.

 

They infiltrate onto a mid field objective with an Apothecary, Chaplain, and sometimes techmarine + librarian. It's really just an anvil unit. But can actually be quite swingy.

[Claws and Effect]

Depends on how you plan to use them. 

 

I like 10 man squads because I can run 4 of them vs 2 20 man squads and Infiltrate them onto 4 objectives to start the game. 

 

I also tend to run randomly numbered squads a lot when I have a few extra points but not enough to take something worthwhile. 

[Gorgoff]

15 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

15.

Nobody has room for 20 models.  Unless you play on nearly empty tables of course which -I know- a lot of you people do for whatever reason.

Also me:

[Xenith]

I think there's no single right answer to this. 

 

Personally, 10 tacs don't do much in game other than hold objectives, but 20 actually manage stuff due to weight of fire, and can take some punishment - especially if you can find a way to get +1 to hit/wound in there, and/or an apothecary.  I think 15 is the critical point here, as Gorgoff says. I think you need 15 at least for them to be durable and to put out shots. 

 

So it depends what you want to do with them. If you had 40 tacs, I'd think 10 in a rhino, 10 backfield, and 20 midfield would be fun. 

[Astartes Consul]

Ten man squads if they're in a Rhino or in smaller point games where there are generally fewer Big Scary Death Units™ that can wipe most of them out in a single turn.

 

Even with Artificer Armour spam, I think that ten tactical marines footslogging in games of 2,500 points or above is a death sentence. The only mitigating factor being that in larger points games, you will also probably have a wider range of high value units that your opponent will target first.

 

Also, Apothecaries.

 

 

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

I think there's no single right answer to this. 

 

Personally, 10 tacs don't do much in game other than hold objectives, but 20 actually manage stuff due to weight of fire, and can take some punishment - especially if you can find a way to get +1 to hit/wound in there, and/or an apothecary.  I think 15 is the critical point here, as Gorgoff says. I think you need 15 at least for them to be durable and to put out shots. 

 

So it depends what you want to do with them. If you had 40 tacs, I'd think 10 in a rhino, 10 backfield, and 20 midfield would be fun. 

Agree.

Mine will be Alpha Legion Inductii which can't be shot at in the first game turn. I will see how that turns out for them. Ideally I should play them in an Army with Dynat or Alpharius because they can get Infiltrate this way. 

So first turn moving into 12" and unleash 40 shots at the enemy without retaliation from them and again with Fury of the Legion in the second turn sounds good to annoy the opponents. 

So far I have neither and they have to walk. 

[Xenith]

^^ I've used 20 AL inductii also and it was decent. They had a bad match up, but managed to take down about their points in terminators over a game through repeated application of 60 bolt shots. 20 in the middle through infiltration is great as a roadblock, and use reactions to make sure they dont get charged T1. They can't have characters with them though.

[Dark Legionnare]

Definitely a "how you like" sort of argument.

I think the only "rule of thumb" is that it's a waste to throw an Apoc in with them unless they're 15 lads minimum?

I've found my favorite most common unit in 2.0 games to be a 15-20 man brick (depending on points free, it goes up above 15) plus a MoS and Apoc.  I have to take the MoS to use Black Reaving, so it's not "there" for a particular reason.

However, having him give the squad BS5 every turn for their FoTL along with an apoc usually makes them pretty damn hardy to remove (Bonus points to a HoTL giving a 4+++ w/Apoc on an objective), but also decent enough at deterring friends coming to say hi.  More dangerous things to be putting the S8+, AP3+ firepower at rather than the brick of basic gunpig marines in back; which is how Tac squads should always tend to work, I feel, outside, say, world eaters.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:54 PM, Dark Legionnare said:

Definitely a "how you like" sort of argument.

I think the only "rule of thumb" is that it's a waste to throw an Apoc in with them unless they're 15 lads minimum?

I've found my favorite most common unit in 2.0 games to be a 15-20 man brick (depending on points free, it goes up above 15) plus a MoS and Apoc.  I have to take the MoS to use Black Reaving, so it's not "there" for a particular reason.

However, having him give the squad BS5 every turn for their FoTL along with an apoc usually makes them pretty damn hardy to remove (Bonus points to a HoTL giving a 4+++ w/Apoc on an objective), but also decent enough at deterring friends coming to say hi.  More dangerous things to be putting the S8+, AP3+ firepower at rather than the brick of basic gunpig marines in back; which is how Tac squads should always tend to work, I feel, outside, say, world eaters.

And using RoW like Long March?

[Dark Legionnare]

47 minutes ago, AGRAMAR said:

And using RoW like Long March?

Sans the MoS required by Reaving I'd say as a home-objective-holding brick of 15-20 with an apoc is still a worthwhile investment!

I've not used Long March yet myself, as I was so enamored with it in 1.0 that I haven't liked the dumbing down of it in 2.0. On the flip-side, Black Reaving not being pretty pants like it was in 1.0 has made me give it many runs in 2.0 to fun effect.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Bung]

I play Heresy for the Marine Hordes so 20 Modell Squads are fun.

 

Playing 3x 20 Modell TAC Squads lookd great on the table and give a great Heresy Feeling.

Especially as my WE Player brings 20 Modell Despoiler Squads too.

[Astartes Consul]

5 hours ago, Bung said:

I play Heresy for the Marine Hordes so 20 Modell Squads are fun.

 

Playing 3x 20 Modell TAC Squads lookd great on the table and give a great Heresy Feeling.

Especially as my WE Player brings 20 Modell Despoiler Squads too.

 

Do you use movement trays for this?

[Bung]

58 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

Do you use movement trays for this?

 

No. As we dont play at a store and WE are more Beer and Pretzels gamers we do rather fast movementt even if it isnt 100% exact and miniatures arent perfect 2" apart.

[Brother Sutek]

On 10/11/2023 at 1:28 AM, Gorgoff said:

Also me:

Loving those helmets!

[Gorgoff]

On 10/14/2023 at 3:49 PM, Brother Sutek said:

Loving those helmets!

Yup, mk5 look very cool.

Don't know if I keep them though.

 

Those are Inductii and I thought about painting the unit in 4 different loyal colors and mock their players by taking stereotypical heads based on their Legion as well. 

Like the one on the left for Blood Angels or the right one for Imperiall Fists 

 

[Noserenda]

Ive run squads of 20 a few times, they work well when you lean into them with support like fortifications, apothecaries etc but it can be a slowww time, the two wolves in me are generally the love of hordes v finishing games before the end of rounds/days :P You are vulnerable to elites and things though that can chop through your ranks and sweep you away, generally your best defence is sorts of FnP and Instant death just carves through it, failing that though, dont underestimate weight of numbers... or krak grenades :P 

I suspect the classic token 10 marines in a rhino will be eternally useful too though as a scoring piece, especially if you can outflanks them through various means,.

[Galron]

10 for the most part. They fulfil a tax in my Night Lords and Dark Angels and they ride in rhinos and drop pods. I tend to run them in groups of 20 in my Iron Warriors though as they are more hordey than my other two forces.

[arnesh88]

I don't go above 15 because of artillery i face, and I would include an apothecary with them and opt for chain/bayonets. 15 is large enough for the opponent to have to work on them while still being able to spread out without taking up too large of a footprint. if i go 10, usually bare bones and in a rhino just to speed up and capture objectives. Rhino keeps my tactical squads safe from scorpiuses (not 100% guarantee, but at that point, usually not worth targeting it) and they just stay in there until it's time to capture objectives.