Is Stormlance task force redundant?

[Commander Nicky]

Hey Guys

 

Finally I got my hands on the new Codex Astartes and to be honest I am really disappointed by the Stormlance Task force lack of options or goddies. As a White Scars player I find that half if their Enhancements can only work on a Adeptus mounted model (which, for now, is only the chaplain) and half their strategiems only works on mounted adeptus astates mounted units (meaning only Outriders can use these strategiems). Am I the only one who is disappointed or what?

 

Let me know what you think...

[tychobi]

Agreed. Gladius is more in lin with my vision of scars tactics. More fun too. Its ike the rules were written for new awesome bike characters, gravis jetbike lancers and squadrons of new melee atvs.  Hopefully they show up? 

[CCE1981]

Unfortunately Stormlance is better with either Space Wolves Thunderwolf Cavalry or Dark Angels Ravenwing.  
 

Note though an army can still benefit greatly from Stormlance without taking mounted units.  The recent Black Templars 150 Marine list would be even faster with this detachment.

[Cenobite Terminator]

Stormlance is the best thing to happen for space puppies in a blue moon.

[Orange Knight]

6 hours ago, Commander Nicky said:

Hey Guys

 

Finally I got my hands on the new Codex Astartes and to be honest I am really disappointed by the Stormlance Task force lack of options or goddies. As a White Scars player I find that half if their Enhancements can only work on a Adeptus mounted model (which, for now, is only the chaplain) and half their strategiems only works on mounted adeptus astates mounted units (meaning only Outriders can use these strategiems). Am I the only one who is disappointed or what?

 

Let me know what you think...

 

The rules are very strong, but unfortunately they benefit other chapters more.

 

In particular the Space Wolves and Dark Angels.

 

White Scars can also be represented by the Firestorm Detachment rules. It gives unit weapons the Assault keyword and a bonus to wound rules against the closest enemy target.

 

I was afraid that the divergent chapters will end up being Marines +1, and unfortunate in the case of the Stormlance Task Force that is unquestionably the case 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Orange Knight

[Tacitus]

I have to look at points costs for Outriders+ATV, but I'm not sure if they're horrible.  Losing their super ginsu on the charge hurt them though. 

[Paladin777]

Outriders are pretty weak, but ATV's are ok harassment units/objective grabbers. 

[Karhedron]

8 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

Outriders are pretty weak, but ATV's are ok harassment units/objective grabbers. 

 

But not much good in melee which is what the Stormlance is focussed around. Only Space Wolves have a unit that really works well with this detachment.

[Paladin777]

Fair enough. 

[Tacitus]

8 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

Outriders are pretty weak, but ATV's are ok harassment units/objective grabbers. 

Compared to what they were when they were getting bonus attacks they're weak, but as "edge rushers" they're not bad.   More "Meh", and I think the Formation may get them over the hump into usable, especially vs T3 armies like Guard or Aeldari. 

[Dracos]

Except most the T3 armies are spending minimum points on infantry bodes and leaning HEAVILY into vehicles of one flavor or another. 

[Malakithe]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:48 AM, CCE1981 said:

The recent Black Templars 150 Marine list

Excuse me what now?

[Tacitus]

On 10/17/2023 at 5:07 PM, Dracos said:

Except most the T3 armies are spending minimum points on infantry bodes and leaning HEAVILY into vehicles of one flavor or another. 

That makes it even easier to run Outriders.  The Outriders clear out the minimum points T3 bodies, harass the vehicles - while your main force takes care of the vehicles outright.   The Outriders can get from Objective to Objective faster than a big lumbering tank that has to go around terrain - the only thing missing is some form of sticky cap. 

Quote

But not much good in melee which is what the Stormlance is focussed around.

Also, I'd point out the Stormlance isn't focused on melee, the strats are about 50/50 melee/shooting.  What it's replacing SORT OF was melee focused, and people assume this new version is but... its not. 

[CCE1981]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Excuse me what now?

Apparently Black Templars had a list of just Marine Bodies with Gladius Task Force.  It was just put bodies on the table.

[Karhedron]

24 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

Also, I'd point out the Stormlance isn't focused on melee, the strats are about 50/50 melee/shooting.  What it's replacing SORT OF was melee focused, and people assume this new version is but... its not. 

 

Strats are useful tools but don't really define a detachment as they only affect one unit per turn. Also CPs are limited meaning you have to weigh up their use carefully against the opportunity cost of things like Overwatch, HI and AoC. The Detachment rule is what really defines who it plays because that is what you can count on being available to all units (conditions permitting). Stormlance is all about Charging so needs to focus on units that get bonuses on the charge. This is fine as far as it goes but 50% of the Stratagems and Enhancements are locked to Mounted units (of which there are now only a couple in the Codex). And half of those Mount-locked abilities are to boost their fairly mediocre melee output.

[Malakithe]

Is Stormlance the best chance a Brutalis has? 3 Brutalis go brrrrrr

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Is Stormlance the best chance a Brutalis has? 3 Brutalis go brrrrrr

They don't really synergize enough to be really good, but yeah it may be one of the better spots for them

[Malakithe]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

They don't really synergize enough to be really good, but yeah it may be one of the better spots for them

Advance + Charge isnt synergizing for a melee unit?

[Tacitus]

36 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Advance + Charge isnt synergizing for a melee unit?

Not when the rest of the formation doesnt hit them, worse one specifically excludes them.  They get one boost, its a really good boost, but its only one.

 

Also:

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but yeah it may be one of the better spots for them

 

[Malakithe]

27 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

They get one boost, its a really good boost, but its only one.

To that point though the detachment itself only boosts super niche things. The only thing im looking at is the detachment bonus itself. Other detachments you can fully use most of the stuff that comes with it but not Stormlance

[Blindhamster]

On 10/21/2023 at 5:02 AM, Malakithe said:

To that point though the detachment itself only boosts super niche things. The only thing im looking at is the detachment bonus itself. Other detachments you can fully use most of the stuff that comes with it but not Stormlance

Sons of Sanguinius has a similar issue, +1 S and +1 A when charging is redundant on a good portion of the army, and very easy for opponent to counter. Stormlance isn't unique in that fact

[Karhedron]

3 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Sons of Sanguinius has a similar issue, +1 S and +1 A when charging is redundant on a good portion of the army, and very easy for opponent to counter. Stormlance isn't unique in that fact

 

While that is true, I think the SoS bonus is easier to build around in that BAs have access to a reasonable selection of decent melee units (Death Company, SG, VanVets, Bladeguard Vets etc). Even Termies benefit from the +1A. The Enhancements and Stratagems are not locked to a small subset of units (although they are also not particularly good).

[Tacitus]

42 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

While that is true, I think the SoS bonus is easier to build around in that BAs have access to a reasonable selection of decent melee units (Death Company, SG, VanVets, Bladeguard Vets etc). Even Termies benefit from the +1A. The Enhancements and Stratagems are not locked to a small subset of units (although they are also not particularly good).

I'd say Termies even benefit MORE - most often they're going to be swinging with a "slow" fist or Thunderhammer and 3 attacks instead of 2 is a bigger deal than 6 attacks instead of 5. 

[Dracos]

On 10/21/2023 at 12:02 AM, Malakithe said:

To that point though the detachment itself only boosts super niche things. The only thing im looking at is the detachment bonus itself. Other detachments you can fully use most of the stuff that comes with it but not Stormlance

I know it’s a hot choice but I feel Firestorm  detachment doesn’t give full value unless you’re using transports which Primaris choice are inefficient point cost on terrain rich tables imo