strawberry fist Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 I’ve managed to get a couple of games in with the list below, although they were both defeats to another space marine list. (96-85 and 86-74). The lancers were amazing while the hellblaster (with apothecary) and whirlwind seemed to be a little lack lustre. Are there any possible useful alterations I could make to the list to make it better? Thanks in advance. Characters and attached unit: Apothecary - Hellblasters (infiltrating) Terminator Captain - Terminators (possible Deep Strike) Phobos Librarian - Infiltrators (infiltrating) Jump intercessors also possibly in deep strike reserve. One of the intercessor squads to start in the Impulsor and push up to sticky a mid field objective. Thanks in advance for the help! Spoiler Ultramarines (Novamarines) Vanguard Spearhead Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Apothecary • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Reductor pistol • Enhancements: The Blade Driven Deep Captain in Terminator Armour • Warlord • 1x Relic weapon 1x Storm bolter Librarian in Phobos Armour • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Force weapon 1x Smite Lieutenant with Combi-weapon • 1x Combi-weapon 1x Paired combat blades BATTLELINE Heavy Intercessor Squad • 1x Heavy Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Heavy bolt rifle • 4x Heavy Intercessor • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Heavy bolt rifle Intercessor Squad • 1x Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt rifle 1x Power fist • 4x Intercessor • 1x Astartes grenade launcher 4x Bolt pistol 4x Bolt rifle 4x Close combat weapon Intercessor Squad • 1x Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt rifle 1x Power fist • 4x Intercessor • 1x Astartes grenade launcher 4x Bolt pistol 4x Bolt rifle 4x Close combat weapon DEDICATED TRANSPORTS Impulsor • 1x Armoured hull 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Shield dome 2x Storm bolter OTHER DATASHEETS Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs • 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack • 1x Heavy bolt pistol 1x Power fist • 4x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs • 4x Astartes chainsword 4x Heavy bolt pistol Eliminator Squad • 1x Eliminator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt sniper rifle 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Eliminator • 2x Bolt pistol 2x Bolt sniper rifle 2x Close combat weapon Gladiator Lancer • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer 2x Storm bolter Gladiator Lancer • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer 2x Storm bolter Hellblaster Squad • 1x Hellblaster Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma incinerator • 4x Hellblaster • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Plasma incinerator Infiltrator Squad • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Helix Gauntlet 4x Marksman bolt carbine Redemptor Dreadnought • 1x onslaught Gatling cannon 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin storm bolter 1x Icarus rocket pod Sternguard Veteran Squad • 1x Sternguard Veteran Sergeant • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Sternguard bolt pistol 1x Sternguard bolt rifle • 4x Sternguard Veteran • 4x Close combat weapon 4x Sternguard bolt pistol 4x Sternguard bolt rifle Terminator Squad • 1x Terminator Sergeant • 1x Power fist 1x Storm bolter • 4x Terminator • 1x Chainfist 3x Power fist 4x Storm bolter Whirlwind • 1x Armoured tracks 1x Whirlwind vengeance launcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 im playing around with vanguard myself, ive chosen invictor suits and hammerstrike storm speeders to keep the phobos theme. do you think las fusils would be better for your elims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberry fist Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 I’ve thought about las fusils though they’re strength 9. I’ve thought that the strength 9 isn’t strong enough to punch through armour as you’d need 5’s to wound and at that point I’d rather take eradicators as they get re-rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 I'm not a fan of infiltrating Hellblasters - I think I'd rather put them in a pod or an Impulsor for some protection (between Deep Strike And/Or Impulsor Armor) Infiltrating from Vanguard feels like it would be better used on some Gravis to get them in the middle as a bullet sponge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberry fist Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Tacitus said: I'm not a fan of infiltrating Hellblasters - I think I'd rather put them in a pod or an Impulsor for some protection (between Deep Strike And/Or Impulsor Armor) Infiltrating from Vanguard feels like it would be better used on some Gravis to get them in the middle as a bullet sponge. That’s the main problem I found with infiltrating them. I ended up going second twice and in both games I ended up loosing 3 of them. I thought about a pod and putting it on an objective to hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 36 minutes ago, strawberry fist said: That’s the main problem I found with infiltrating them. I ended up going second twice and in both games I ended up loosing 3 of them. I thought about a pod and putting it on an objective to hold. I like the idea of an Impulsor/Firing Deck gimmick too. Giving them T9 or so, and a 5++ seems like it wouldn't be bad I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Infiltrating some Eradicators wouldn't be bad either with shorter range weapons + Gravis Toughness/armor save Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberry fist Posted October 29, 2023 Author Share Posted October 29, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, Tacitus said: I like the idea of an Impulsor/Firing Deck gimmick too. Giving them T9 or so, and a 5++ seems like it wouldn't be bad I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Infiltrating some Eradicators wouldn't be bad either with shorter range weapons + Gravis Toughness/armor save I do like that idea, it seems like it could be good fun having 5 hellblasters driving around causing chaos! if I remove the apothecary (blade driven deep) and the whirlwind it gives me 220 to play with. Which means I can add in a squad of aggressors and be spot on 2000. It does mean that they will have to walk up the board though. Edited October 30, 2023 by strawberry fist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, strawberry fist said: I do like that idea, it seems like it could be good fun having 5 hellblasters driving around causing chaos! if I remove the apothecary (blade driven deep) and the whirlwind it gives me 220 to play with. Which means I can add in a squad of aggressors and be spot on 2000. It does mean that they will have to walk up the board though. Aggressors are OK here, but they don't REALLY mesh well. You want to be able to march up 2" away, unload, then charge and punch what's left. Vanguard wants everything to be more than 12" away. With that said, 18 TWIN-LINKED PRECISION power fist attacks into an Old One Eye who thinks he's protected by a squad of Carnifexes has some appeal. I just started looking at the Anvil Seige Force too: Hellblasters inside a 5++ Shield Dome Impulsor that race up the field then park on an objective marker. Its now stationary with 6 Heavy +1 to wound plasma exterminators. GravCan Devs into Twin LC and Twin HB Razorbacks. Race up field, now stationary with twin linked (rerolling) +1 to wound Heavy Bolters and Lascannon and blowing the Battle Drill strat on them/it for 6 Sustained 1, Crit Hit on a 5+ GravCan shots - averaging now 2 extra hits with Anti-Vehicle 2+. A Gigantic Land Raider/Repulsor/Predator/Gladiator support task force - you get the idea - but mostly the Land Raider (Classic) for the Twin Linked HB and pair of 2 shot Godhammers, or Gladiator Reaper with a Twin Linked +1 to wound. A fair number of people didn't like the Anvil force because they were painting that force yellow and standing still. Try painting it White with red lightning bolts and it starts looking different. Anything with HEAVY weapons loves that formation, if they have enough movement (Vehicles/Transports), infiltrate(Eliminators), Deep Strike(Drop Pods?) to get to where they want to be (or the range/LOS to do it from the backfield (Firestrikes, Desolators, and Whirlwinds?) and then stay stationary they love it even more. One of the things I enjoy doing with these new formations is "flipping the script" - how does a traditional "White Scars" unit do in the Anvil force, or an Imp Fist in the Vanguard etc - you're really just mixing and matching strengths and drawbacks. So I look at what the formation boosts through its always on rule, or the strats or both and look at what gets helped. Anvil doesn't help movement but it does help heavy shooting, so I thought of the tanks paired with a static infantry force in my backfield, or the White Scars "Rhino Rush". Vanguard plays well into Infiltrating Gravis bullet sponge and infiltrating and/or long range shooting. Edited October 30, 2023 by Tacitus Forgot Razorbacks are only Firing Deck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacitus Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Ooh an all Terminator Force (Probably Deathwing for extra unit types/Rule of 3 stuff) loaded up on Deep Striking Cyclone Missile Launchers - Turn 1, deep strike, turn 2+ Stationary on the Objective 2/4 Krak Missiles that still wound T12 on 4's, wound T4 on 2's. Land Speeder Vengeances if they stick around in the full new codex... But not aircraft. Aircraft are laughable here because they always have to move. And I just realized vehicle heavy weapons are not HEAVY - so this doesn't work for them same with Terminators which is silly because that's a staple of the typical Imp Fist army. Instead of getting +1 to wound, they get HEAVY - which isn't horrible... 3+ to 2+ to hit isn't bad, but it was really about leaning into the +1 to wound on S8-10ish weaponry vs T10-12ish tanks and monsters. Also not Erads. Not Firestrikes, not Centurions, Not Cents/Dreads, Heavy Intercessors have it, but are slow and can't pod. Eliminators(Infiltrate), Hellblasters in Impulsors (Still get the HEAVY), Suppressors (Deep Strike), Desolators... I'm suddenly realized Space Marines have very few HEAVY weapons with the way they've cancelled out HEAVY and Can-Move-And-Fire-Heavy-Weapons-Without-Penalty units like vehicles, Dreads, bikes and Termies/Heavy Infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawberry fist Posted December 26, 2023 Author Share Posted December 26, 2023 I’ve enjoyed using the list, though I’ve found the heavy intercessors and the Phobos Lieutenant lacking. Mainly down to me forgetting his ability pre and during the game! This is the list I’m currently intending to run at a tournament in the new year. What do you think? Apothecary - with aggressors captain in terminator - with terminators phobos lib - with infiltrators Uriel - one of the intercessors Spoiler CHARACTERS Apothecary Biologis • 1x Absolvor bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon • Enhancements: The Blade Driven Deep Captain in Terminator Armour • 1x Relic weapon 1x Storm bolter Librarian in Phobos Armour • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Force weapon 1x Smite • Enhancements: Execute and Redeploy Uriel Ventris • Warlord • 1x Bolt Pistol 1x Invictus 1x Sword of Idaeus BATTLELINE Intercessor Squad • 1x Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt rifle 1x Power fist • 4x Intercessor • 1x Astartes grenade launcher 4x Bolt pistol 4x Bolt rifle 4x Close combat weapon Intercessor Squad • 1x Intercessor Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Bolt rifle 1x Power fist • 4x Intercessor • 1x Astartes grenade launcher 4x Bolt pistol 4x Bolt rifle 4x Close combat weapon OTHER DATASHEETS Aggressor Squad • 1x Aggressor Sergeant • 1x Auto boltstorm gauntlets 1x Fragstorm grenade launcher 1x Twin power fists • 5x Aggressor • 5x Auto boltstorm gauntlets 5x Fragstorm grenade launcher 5x Twin power fists Centurion Devastator Squad • 1x Devastator Centurion Sergeant • 1x Centurion fists 1x Centurion missile launcher 1x Grav-cannon • 2x Devastator Centurion • 2x Centurion fists 2x Centurion missile launcher 2x Grav-cannon Gladiator Lancer • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer 2x Storm bolter Gladiator Lancer • 1x Armoured hull 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Ironhail heavy stubber 1x Lancer laser destroyer 2x Storm bolter Hellblaster Squad • 1x Hellblaster Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Plasma incinerator • 4x Hellblaster • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 4x Plasma incinerator Inceptor Squad • 1x Inceptor Sergeant • 1x Assault bolters 1x Close combat weapon • 2x Inceptor • 2x Assault bolters 2x Close combat weapon Infiltrator Squad • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Close combat weapon 1x Marksman bolt carbine • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Close combat weapon 1x Helix Gauntlet 4x Marksman bolt carbine Redemptor Dreadnought • 1x Icarus rocket pod 1x Macro plasma incinerator 1x Onslaught gatling cannon 1x Redemptor fist 1x Twin storm bolter Scout Squad • 1x Scout Sergeant • 1x Bolt pistol 1x Boltgun 1x Close combat weapon • 4x Scout • 4x Bolt pistol 4x Boltgun 4x Close combat weapon Terminator Squad • 1x Terminator Sergeant • 1x Power fist 1x Storm bolter • 4x Terminator • 1x Chainfist 1x Cyclone missile launcher 3x Power fist 4x Storm bolter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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