So I remembered to do my full company list test

[Tacitus]

Every edition, I try and make a few different lists as sort of a touchstone for the "health" of the edition - Full Company (60/20/20), Raven + Death Wing, Armored Company with Chronus, etc.

 

I just remembered I had the codex now, and tried to do the full company and it sent me down the rabbit hole. 

 

I ended up with this:

Spoiler

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [1,995pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit)

Detachment: Anvil Siege Force

Show/Hide Options: Agents of the Imperium are visible, Imperial Knights are visible, Legends are visible, Titans are visible, Unaligned Forces are visible, Unaligned Fortifications are visible

+ Epic Hero +

Uriel Ventris [75pts]

+ Character +

Lieutenant [65pts]
. Neo-volkite pistol, Master-crafted Power Sword & Storm Shield

+ Battleline +

Intercessor Squad [170pts]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Rifle, Close Combat Weapon
. 9x Intercessors: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolt Rifle, 9x Close Combat Weapon

Intercessor Squad [170pts]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Rifle, Close Combat Weapon
. 9x Intercessors: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolt Rifle, 9x Close Combat Weapon

Tactical Squad [160pts]
. 7x Tactical Marine: 7x Bolt Pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Close Combat Weapon
. Tactical Marine Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun
. Tactical Marine w/Heavy or Special Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Tactical Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad [160pts]
. 7x Tactical Marine: 7x Bolt Pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Close Combat Weapon
. Tactical Marine Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun
. Tactical Marine w/Heavy or Special Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Tactical Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad [160pts]
. 7x Tactical Marine: 7x Bolt Pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Close Combat Weapon
. Tactical Marine Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun
. Tactical Marine w/Heavy or Special Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Tactical Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma Gun

+ Infantry +

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs [170pts]
. Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol
. 7x Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack: 7x Astartes Chainsword, 7x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs [170pts]
. Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol
. 7x Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack: 7x Astartes Chainsword, 7x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol

Company Heroes [95pts]

Devastator Squad [200pts]
. 5x Devastator Marine w/ Boltgun: 5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Close Combat Weapon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Sergeant: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

Devastator Squad [200pts]
. 5x Devastator Marine w/ Boltgun: 5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Close Combat Weapon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Sergeant: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

Infiltrator Squad [200pts]: Helix Gauntlet, Infiltrator Comms Array
. Infiltrator Sergeant
. 9x Infiltrators: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Close Combat Weapon, 9x Marksman Bolt Carbine

++ Total: [1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Cap, LT, Company Heroes Command Squad

60 Battleline, 20 close assault, and 20 Heavy support shoulderpads for one hundred squad marines. Originally I was doing it as Gladius, but then I started looking at what I had, and here's the rabbit hole:  Anvil Seige Force:  Bolt Rifles, Lascannon, Grav Cannon and Marksmanship Carbines are all HEAVY before the Detachment rules which means stationary they get a +1 to Wound, in addition to +1 to hit, and with 100 bodies if you can infiltrate/deep strike enough you may not have to worry about moving, you've got 10 squads of 10 bodies for board control - this lead me to thinking this may be the path to making the Anvil Seige Force work.  Flood the board with bodies toting HEAVY guns.  This list probably needs some revisions to get there - probably giving up a Demi Company for more HEAVY bodies and pre-game mobility.   The "obvious" move is to give up the Assault Intercessors, but they're most of what little movement you have, and crashing ~10 Mortal Wounds per turn (20 bodies, doing a MW 50% of the time on the charge) might be an emergency tactic you need. 

 

If I give up the Lieutenant I can get something like this: 

Spoiler

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Ultramarines) [1,990pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size: 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit)

Detachment: Anvil Siege Force

Show/Hide Options: Agents of the Imperium are visible, Imperial Knights are visible, Legends are visible, Titans are visible, Unaligned Forces are visible, Unaligned Fortifications are visible

+ Epic Hero +

Uriel Ventris [75pts]

+ Battleline +

Intercessor Squad [170pts]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Rifle, Close Combat Weapon
. 9x Intercessors: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolt Rifle, 9x Close Combat Weapon

Intercessor Squad [170pts]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Rifle, Close Combat Weapon
. 9x Intercessors: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolt Rifle, 9x Close Combat Weapon

Intercessor Squad [170pts]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Rifle, Close Combat Weapon
. 9x Intercessors: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolt Rifle, 9x Close Combat Weapon

Intercessor Squad [170pts]: 2x Astartes Grenade Launcher
. Intercessor Sergeant: Bolt Rifle, Close Combat Weapon
. 9x Intercessors: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Bolt Rifle, 9x Close Combat Weapon

+ Infantry +

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs [170pts]
. Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol
. 7x Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack: 7x Astartes Chainsword, 7x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs [170pts]
. Assault Intercessor Sergeant with Jump Pack: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol
. 7x Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack: 7x Astartes Chainsword, 7x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol
. Assault Intercessors with Jump Pack w/ Plasma Pistol

Company Heroes [95pts]

Devastator Squad [200pts]
. 5x Devastator Marine w/ Boltgun: 5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Close Combat Weapon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon
. Devastator Sergeant: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

Devastator Squad [200pts]
. 5x Devastator Marine w/ Boltgun: 5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Close Combat Weapon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Marine w/ Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Devastator Sergeant: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

Infiltrator Squad [200pts]: Helix Gauntlet, Infiltrator Comms Array
. Infiltrator Sergeant
. 9x Infiltrators: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Close Combat Weapon, 9x Marksman Bolt Carbine

Infiltrator Squad [200pts]: Helix Gauntlet, Infiltrator Comms Array
. Infiltrator Sergeant
. 9x Infiltrators: 9x Bolt Pistol, 9x Close Combat Weapon, 9x Marksman Bolt Carbine

++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Now the only models that don't have HEAVY before the Detachment are the Assault Intercessors who have Impact Hits, and the 12 "Ablative" Devastators and Ventris himself.  20 INFILTRATE and (up to) 10 DEEP STRIKE capable models for a pre-game movement boost for board control and easier/earlier/better +1 to Hit +1 to wound "come get me" effect. 

 

I don't know its still not there yet I think - probably need to trade some bodies for more board-short-cut, or some defensive depth like Phobos Libbies in the Infiltrators...  but its food for thought.

[jaxom]

I do something similar for demi-companies. Here's something I whipped up for another topic:

 

Quote

I'd imagine Ultramarines tend to be fairly conservative with their demi-companies:

• 2x Intercessor Squads with Impulsors (Comms Array on at least one), probably deployed as combat squads for tactical flexibility
• 1x Infiltrator Squad forward deployed
• 1x Combat Squad of Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs
• 1x Combat Squad of Outriders with an ATV
• 1x Combat Squad of Desolators
• 1x Combat Squad of Hellblasters with an Impulsor
  • Approximately 1100 points
     

The Salamanders would probably go more towards flamers and gravis troops, leaving transports off the battlefield, but backed up by more assets from their Reserve Companies. The Salamanders traditionally don't like anti-grav or faster units, so I figure they'd deploy their Close Support Squad as Incursors for more fire support.

• 1x Intercessor Squad
• 2x Heavy Intercessor Squad
• 1x Incursor Squad
• 1x Eradicator Squad
• 1x Combat Squad of Aggressors with flamers
  • Approximately 1100 points
     

White Scars take bikes, 'natch.

• 2x Intercessor Squads with enough Impulsors for everyone to ride (probably with a mix of shield domes and weapon arrays)
• 1x Infiltrator Squad to set up the killzone
• 2x Outrider Combat Squads with attached ATVs (actually splits the squad into groups of 5 marines, unlike trying to get Aggressors and Eradicators to work out properly)
• 1x Infernus Combat Squad in an Impulsor (could go Hellblaster if they don't need as much anti-infantry)
• 1x Hellblaster Combat Squad in an Impulsor (could go Infernus if they don't need as much anti-heavy infantry or anti-light tank)
  • Approximately 1550 points
     

Raven Guard love their Phobos, but the Vanguard Detachment lets Tacticus and Gravis sneak. I could see them going either way: an Anvilus Phobos sniper force, a Stormlance Phobos ambush force, or a more traditional demi-company (see Ultramarines above) with Vanguard. Here's a more Phobos-themed demi-company.

• 3x Infiltrator Squads
• 1x Incursor Squad
• 2x Eliminator Combat Squads (probably with Las-fusils, but if there's no threat of enemy armored vehicles....)
• 1x Suppressor Combat Squad
  • Approximately 1000 points
     

Imperial Fists tend towards a lot of shooting and a heavy counter-assault. I'd say it's a safe bet they'd have a Repulsor or two deployed with each demi-company, but I'm not going to include them here (because they're not technically part of it).

• 1x Intercessor Squad with 2x Impulsors (one with a missile array and one with a skytalon array)
• 2x Heavy Intercessor Squad
• 1x Combat Squad of Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs
• 1x Combat Squad of Inceptors
• 1x Combat Squad of Desolators
• 1x Combat Squad of Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets and Frag Launchers
  • Approximately 1300 points
     

Iron Hands love them some firepower, but they also like grinding the enemy under their ceramite boots and treads. I imagine they'd have a similar set up to the Imperial Fists, but without the Assault Intercessors. Incursors, again for the fire support role. 

• 1x Intercessor Squad with 2x Impulsors (both with missile arrays)
• 2x Heavy Intercessor Squad
• 1x Combat Squad of Incursors (I could also see swapping Incursors and the Inceptors for Outriders with ATVS if swapping the Aggressors for more Desolators)
• 1x Combat Squad of Inceptors
• 1x Combat Squad of Desolators
• 1x Combat Squad of Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets and Frag Launchers
  • Approximately 1250 points

 

[Dracos]

This kind of thinking was easier for me when I could pay a fair price for 5 Eradicators or Inceptors. Not so much Eliminators, but still it’s impossible now. 

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, Dracos said:

This kind of thinking was easier for me when I could pay a fair price for 5 Eradicators or Inceptors. Not so much Eliminators, but still it’s impossible now. 

I imagine most people have the Intercessors already, many have the Tacticals and Devs - though the Tacs are suboptimal.  I was mostly wondering what people thought of 70ish models with 2ish +1 to Hit and +1 to wound shots each due to the Anvil Seige Force.  The weakness is movement, but if you have so many models in so many places movement becomes less important.... 

[TheNicronomicon]

I like the deep striking idea with this. 2 jump assault units and maybe—though you’re giving up some Heavy weapons to do it somewhere—bolt carbine reivers. Give them a Phobos Lt and they’re a highly mobile deep-strike unit of Precision shooting. They can work with the jump assault troops to flush enemies out to your gunline. 

[Tacitus]

2 hours ago, TheNicronomicon said:

I like the deep striking idea with this. 2 jump assault units and maybe—though you’re giving up some Heavy weapons to do it somewhere—bolt carbine reivers. Give them a Phobos Lt and they’re a highly mobile deep-strike unit of Precision shooting. They can work with the jump assault troops to flush enemies out to your gunline. 

Reivers are still awful. and cost the same as the Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs I believe.  I'd let Uriel punt a unit into Deep Strike, or maybe a Pod Bomb first.   Plus with 20 infiltrators and 20 deep strikers I've already got a bunch of models that can start outside my deployment zone. 

 

 

But I'm digging the concept of full company Anvil Seige Force here.   The main problems I see are how fast the Dev Squads are going to get lit up.   Lascannon that wound a tank on 3's are going to catch all sorts of incoming fire the next turn.  But (Assuming) you're not facing a Knights/theme/skew list, I think the sneaky part of more than 120 S4 +1 to Hit +1 to Wound shots (40 Intercessors, 20 Infiltrators each with at least two shots) into the guts of an army is the bigger and easier to overlook threat.   I shoot 120 of your guardsmen/guants/T3 Troops, hit on 2's, wound on 2's - how many are left to contest objectives?  The numbers change a bit when you go bigger/tougher infantry, but I think (haven't done the math) it changes to even better as T5 and T6 Gravis, Terminators, and MANZ and such go back to being wounded by the massed but lowly bolt rifle on 4's instead of 5's. 

 

Like I said, I/We probably have to tweak it some more, but it feels like we're giving up on the Detachments a little too quickly to copy-cat the trends. 

[Paladin777]

I consider the 3man units of eliminators to be the same as the 5 man units for my battle company, and 6man for my aggressors and inceptors. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Paladin777

[jaxom]

9 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Lascannon that wound a tank on 3's are going to catch all sorts of incoming fire the next turn. 

Maybe replace the grav in the Tac Squads with las and then combat squad them? That would give an additional three lascannons to have to deal with in otherwise what would be low priority targets. Might be what you need so there's still lascannons on the board after turn 2.