Karhedron Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Welcome to the next in a series of posts that are intended to provide a "deep dive" into a single unit at a time in the new Index. This is not going to be as organised as a "Unit of the week" series as I always struggle to stick to routines. This week I am going to be looking at Fire Dragons, as well as their Phoenix Lord, Fuegan. Here are some questions to consider: Are you considering running Fire Dragons in your army? Do you prefer MSU or full-sized squads or do you see good roles for both? What wargear and options are you considering? Would you consider taking Fuegan? Do they have good synergy with any Stratagems? If you would like your model showcased here, please post a pic on the following thread. https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/363498-eldar-photos-for-uotw-series-im-ready-for-my-close-up/ Kryczek and TrawlingCleaner 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Clock Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 17 minutes ago, Karhedron said: Are you considering running Fire Dragons in your army? Yes - always 17 minutes ago, Karhedron said: Do you prefer MSU or full-sized squads or do you see good roles for both? MSU tag-team w/ Avengers in Serpent. 18 minutes ago, Karhedron said: What wargear and options are you considering? Firepike 18 minutes ago, Karhedron said: Would you consider taking Fuegan? If there were a new mini... 18 minutes ago, Karhedron said: Do they have good synergy with any Stratagems? Phantasm obvs. Maybe Matchless Agility if I need to get in melta range to get the job done, but equally it hurts to Advance and lose the Firepike shooting, so more likely to just be pretty aggro with serpent positioning in Turn 1 so that anything w/in 16" of the hull is taking full freight melta 3. Truly, it's Melta 3 that makes this unit interesting so if you're not going to get inside 6" on something that matters, it might be worth it to wait another turn until you can be dead sure of dropping or severely damaging your target (which will also be hopefully a bit softened by lances and whatnot by then too). S9 DmgD6 on its own is way too swingy even into like terminators, but within 6" all of a sudden it's a pretty good trade. Dragons are usually my Turn 2 answer to stompy gribblies rushing an objective. The bane of Daemon Princes and the like, I usually find room for 5 + 5 Avengers + Wave Serpent as a pretty self-sufficient mobile scoring package. Definitely let down by S9; if they just went to S10 I'd probably take 2x5 every list. As-is I'll just try and use Eldrad on their target if it's important enough and S:10+. Also tend to lead the shooting phase with the Dragons, since their limited range but high damage means I want to see how big a chunk they can take from their target before following up with long range assets to close the deal. Important to note that they can nuke a tank or 5-man heavy infantry, but it's in no way a guarantee, so I use them first to hopefully swing big and leave more options open for the long range stuff. Cracking a transport so the rest of the list can feast on the goo inside? Even better... That's just classic shooting priority tactics for some, I guess, but hopefully a bit of help for the less experienced ; ) Dragons are better than they get credit for most of the time, IMO. Right now the meta is pretty jammed up on like 4 units in the codex, but there's some cool stuff packed into units other than Avatars, Spinners and Prisms! I'm not surprised by the meta... I'm just not playing it. I'll get an Avatar next year maybe, though... Cheers, The Good Doctor. TrawlingCleaner, Kryczek and Karhedron 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Ming Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Absolutely not Melta is almost dead this edition I already wasn't a fan of fire dragons, they were really hit and miss, you got one shot with them, then they died. Factor in loss of battle focus and in general the S of melta has not kept up with T increases. There is no argument that can be made for: my elite expensive warriors with melta weapons wound your rhino/similar transport/model on a 5. Bouargh and Xenith 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouargh Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) I do not field them and I do not plan to. I will not repeat the arguments shared by @Emperor Ming, I second them. Yet, as a small alteration of my previous comment: I might eventualy consider them in very big games - but MSU in transport will be mandatory. And mainly because I would have spare slots to field them... But even there some better alternatives exist: for example, going Ynnari and field scourges would look like being a much better idea for tank and heavy armour busting. Edited: Just to complete the picture, the drawback of scourges is that it requires paying the Yvraine tax at some point and let her be your Warlord, leading to a total spent of 270 pts for 5 of these harpies + the Lady with the blue cat. While 5 Dragons in a WS are 205 pts... Yet money wise the Yvraine party will require spending only 62,5€ while the Dragon squad in a WS will represent some 90€. I do not align Ynnari but I might start thinking about it... Edited November 8, 2023 by Bouargh Additionnal thoughts Emperor Ming, Karhedron and TrawlingCleaner 2 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Clock Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 ... worth noting that a unit of 5 dragons on foot plus Fuegan showed up in the winning list of a 170-player 6-round tournament in Germany... Probably just a cheap trading/action unit from Reserves, but equally could be ablative wounds on Fuegan so that he dies and comes back a tad later in the game? 85 points for firepike and 4 fusions hitting on 2+ thanks to Dragon Daddy is actually pretty good if you can find the right target, and it's dang easy to hide (the best defence for any Eldar unit). I certainly agree it's a shame that dragons are actually not quite suited to hitting heavy vehicles anymore: basically 'anti-vehicle/monster 4+' would obviously make them feel better in their ostensible role, and I'd give up the extra Melta pip and the 're-roll 1s' for that if needs be of course. 85 points per squad feels like a good benchmark, they just need a little more value into vehicles from where I'm sitting. Cheers, The Good Doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 I have noticed that Feugan crops up on his own in quite a lot of lists. He is quite tanky with a 2+/4++/5+++ even if he is only T3. Plus he has a 2+ Resurrection roll. His Fire Axe is strong enough to one-shot terminators and his Searsong can do 7-12 wounds at <9". If you have a spare slot in a Transport, he can pack quite a lot of punch. TrawlingCleaner 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 8, 2023 Author Share Posted December 8, 2023 Interestingly, Z Martin just took 1st place at the Warzone Atlanta tournament with 3 squads of Fire Dragons in Falcons. The Falcons' Fire Support rule gives full rerolls to Wound which massively helps the Dragons against T10+ targets as well as solving the problem of deployment. Full list below. Spoiler Aeldari Battle Host Strike Force (2000 Points) CHARACTERS Autarch (75 Points) • Warlord • 1x Dragon fusion gun 1x Mandiblasters 1x Star glaive Farseer Skyrunner (90 Points) • 1x Eldritch Storm 1x Shuriken pistol 1x Twin shuriken catapult 1x Witchblade Fuegan (115 Points) • 1x Searsong 1x The Fire Axe Karandras (100 Points) • 1x Arhra’s Bane 1x Isirmathil 1x The Scorpion’s Bite Solitaire (115 Points) • 1x Solitaire weapons BATTLELINE Storm Guardians (115 Points) • 10x Storm Guardian • 2x Aeldari flamer 2x Aeldari power sword 8x Guardian combat weapon 2x Guardian fusion gun 6x Shuriken pistol • 1x Serpent’s Scale Platform • 1x Guardian combat weapon 1x Serpent shield OTHER DATASHEETS Falcon (140 Points) • 1x Bright lance 1x Pulse laser 1x Shuriken cannon 1x Wraithbone hull Falcon (140 Points) • 1x Bright lance 1x Pulse laser 1x Shuriken cannon 1x Wraithbone hull Falcon (140 Points) • 1x Bright lance 1x Pulse laser 1x Shuriken cannon 1x Wraithbone hull Fire Dragons (85 Points) • 1x Fire Dragon Exarch • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Firepike • 4x Fire Dragon • 4x Close combat weapon 4x Dragon fusion gun Fire Dragons (85 Points) • 1x Fire Dragon Exarch • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Firepike • 4x Fire Dragon • 4x Close combat weapon 4x Dragon fusion gun Fire Dragons (85 Points) • 1x Fire Dragon Exarch • 1x Close combat weapon 1x Firepike • 4x Fire Dragon • 4x Close combat weapon 4x Dragon fusion gun Rangers (55 Points) • 5x Ranger • 5x Close combat weapon 5x Ranger long rifle 5x Shuriken pistol Rangers (55 Points) • 5x Ranger • 5x Close combat weapon 5x Ranger long rifle 5x Shuriken pistol Striking Scorpions (75 Points) • 1x Striking Scorpion Exarch • 1x Biting blade 1x Mandiblasters • 4x Striking Scorpion • 4x Mandiblasters 4x Scorpion chainsword 4x Shuriken pistol Striking Scorpions (75 Points) • 1x Striking Scorpion Exarch • 1x Biting blade 1x Mandiblasters • 4x Striking Scorpion • 4x Mandiblasters 4x Scorpion chainsword 4x Shuriken pistol Support Weapons (125 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x D-cannon 1x Shuriken catapult Support Weapons (125 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x D-cannon 1x Shuriken catapult Support Weapons (125 Points) • 1x Close combat weapon 1x D-cannon 1x Shuriken catapult Swooping Hawks (75 Points) • 1x Swooping Hawk Exarch • 1x Aeldari power sword 1x Close combat weapon 1x Hawk’s talon • 4x Swooping Hawk • 4x Close combat weapon 4x Lasblaster Paladin777 and Dr. Clock 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Clock Posted December 8, 2023 Share Posted December 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Karhedron said: 3 squads of Fire Dragons in Falcons. Literally came here to point to same. Sweet list. Would pare the triple choices down to 2 for more friendly matches, while also probably just a single Phoenix Lord, but this does hopefully put a final nail in the coffin of the idea that there's almost anything in the Index rn that's really 'useless'. The list feels SO MUCH more classic Eldar than double Avatar + Spinners + Prisms... Interestingly the same event's 4th place was also Eldar, and also had Fuegan + 5 in falcon. Cheers, The Good Doctor. Edited December 8, 2023 by Dr. Clock Paladin777, Xenith and Karhedron 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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