Medic! Apothecaries in 10th Ed Guidance

[Wormwoods]

Hey gang,

 

I'm heading into my first Crusade for 10th - actually my first game in 10th at all, I'm been pretty focused on the other side of the hobby so I could bring a new, fully painted army to the Crusade - and am considering my next thousand points. I wanted to see if anyone has experimented with tossing some apothecaries around in a less-than-competitive environment. I ran one in my 9th ed Crusade Army, but he ended up doing very little in the games itself, and instead existing to gobble up extra RP via 'Recover The Geneseed'.

 

At 50 points some Tacticus Apothecaries seem easy enough to fit in, and I'm interested to see if it's worth loading one into my current (and future) Sternguard squads to keep them shooting a little longer. Is there much point adding one to an Intercessor squad, with or without an Lt in it? 

 

Not looking to assemble any Gravis for a while, so I'm focusing on the basic ones for now. Anyone had good results running them?

[DemonGSides]

Regular apothecaries seem kinda weak. Biologis is basically just an LT, not really an apothecary (but also probably the most useful apothecary).

 

 

[Karhedron]

They only kick in when you start losing models so if your opponent ignores a squad for whatever reason, the Apothecary is not earning his points back. For this reason, he probably works best with Hellblasters since he allows you to res any models you lose to overheating. Any mechanic that makes his rules independent of your opponent's choices is generally a good thing.

 

The other thing to consider is that an Apothecary can be a good way to bring certain Enhancements to a squad. He is one of only 3 Characters who can join Desolators for example so if you want to give a squad an Enhancement like Stoic Defender or Forged in Battle, the Apothecary can act as a nice caddy. Also you can Apothecaries in addition to Captains and Lieutenants so if you want a Character to carry the buff Enhancement while your Captain gets a beatstick upgrade, you can have your cake and eat it.

 

Slightly edge and niche use cases but they can be handy in the right circumstances. It is a shame they cannot join more expensive squads like Bladeguard Vets. As it is, they need at least 2 turns to resurrect enough models to earn their points back (because they probably won't do it by killing the enemy). So whatever squad they join needs to be able to survive enemy attention for at least 2 turns. Tricky but not impossible.

[Wormwoods]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

It is a shame they cannot join more expensive squads like Bladeguard Vets

I was pretty far into designing a bladeguard apothecary conversion when I re-read the datasheet and got sad, that was going to be my first option. Shame they can't go in the new command squad, either. I know that's not a very optimised unit, but I am planning to run one for vibes reasons.

 

One thing I'll need to do is see how the various Nid players I'm playing against for the Crusade prioritise units. If they end up focusing down my Sternguard in a few games maybe that will be worth adding some resurrections too. 

[Paladin777]

An apothecary, a Lieutenant with Fire Discipline, and 10 hellblasters is a force to be feared, and fits nicely in either a repulsor or land raider (probably a repulsor for them as they don't need the assault ramp).

[Karhedron]

52 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

An apothecary, a Lieutenant with Fire Discipline, and 10 hellblasters is a force to be feared, and fits nicely in either a repulsor or land raider (probably a repulsor for them as they don't need the assault ramp).

 

The Repulsor also has the advantage of the allowing the Hellblasters to jump back inside if they get charged which is probably much more valuable. If you want to save points, you could put Fire Discipline on the Apothecary and drop the Lt. Lethal Hits are nice but less important when you are shooting at S8.

[Wormwoods]

This is where I reveal that I don't really like building or painting warhammer-scale tanks. Hellblasters are probably a good idea regardless. 

[Progenitor]

I run a Tacitus Apothecary in my Hellblasters with Azrael, first thing that had a Precision weapon aimed at him in my last game so he didn't ever get the chance to res anyone but my opponent say the potential and nuked him at the first opportunity. The Fire Discipline Biologis in my Heavy Intercessors unit turned them into an absolute blender unit though, especially by spending CP to keep them in the right Doctrine, it was insane what that unit was pouring out firepower-wise, even into the Nidzilla list he was running. 

 

I've always loved these "auxiliary" heroes in 40k and now they seem worth taking to me which I'm really happy about. 

[Tacitus]

16 hours ago, Wormwoods said:

I was pretty far into designing a bladeguard apothecary conversion when I re-read the datasheet and got sad, that was going to be my first option. Shame they can't go in the new command squad, either. I know that's not a very optimised unit, but I am planning to run one for vibes reasons.

 

One thing I'll need to do is see how the various Nid players I'm playing against for the Crusade prioritise units. If they end up focusing down my Sternguard in a few games maybe that will be worth adding some resurrections too. 

Not being able to add an Apothecary - or not having one in the new command squad by default drives me bonkers.  Its such an unforced error.  I get them not wanting Apothecaries in a Bladeguard unit.  Assuming it was a concious choice which I wouldn't bet on.  I disagree with not allowing them, but I get it. 

[Karhedron]

I agree, I want an Apothecary in the Company Heroes to run a proper Command Squad again.

 

Having said that, I can see from a design POV why they did not allow it. Like BGVs, putting an Apothecary in the with the Heroes means he is resurrecting a much more valuable model. The Heroes have 4 Wounds each and normally get -1 to Wound as they will be led by a Character. That means each one will take a lot of effort to remove and be more valuable if brought back.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

I agree, I want an Apothecary in the Company Heroes to run a proper Command Squad again.

 

Having said that, I can see from a design POV why they did not allow it. Like BGVs, putting an Apothecary in the with the Heroes means he is resurrecting a much more valuable model. The Heroes have 4 Wounds each and normally get -1 to Wound as they will be led by a Character. That means each one will take a lot of effort to remove and be more valuable if brought back.

 

I'm sure that's their reasoning, but then again, the entire Necron faction exists, so is one bladeguard coming back a turn REALLY that busted? Or even 1 Company Hero?  I don't think so, but obviously GW does.

[Wind Whistler]

Devastators with plasma cannons are an alternative to hellblasters.  Better range and they have blast. Could be good against hordes with higher toughness, like orks. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Wind Whistler

[unrealchamp88]

19 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I agree, I want an Apothecary in the Company Heroes to run a proper Command Squad again.

 

Having said that, I can see from a design POV why they did not allow it. Like BGVs, putting an Apothecary in the with the Heroes means he is resurrecting a much more valuable model. The Heroes have 4 Wounds each and normally get -1 to Wound as they will be led by a Character. That means each one will take a lot of effort to remove and be more valuable if brought back.

I wonder if its more to move people away from the old Command Squad. Creating a distinct variation of some kind so players are "nudged" into buying new models rather than not. 

 

Rules wise, they could have left veterans on 3 wounds (all others in the codex have 3W, except Sternguard which is another annoying inconsistency) and had a apothecary on there granting a FNP or dmg reduction of some kind, rather than straight res.

 

On 11/21/2023 at 12:53 PM, Wormwoods said:

Hey gang,

 

I'm heading into my first Crusade for 10th - actually my first game in 10th at all, I'm been pretty focused on the other side of the hobby so I could bring a new, fully painted army to the Crusade - and am considering my next thousand points. I wanted to see if anyone has experimented with tossing some apothecaries around in a less-than-competitive environment. I ran one in my 9th ed Crusade Army, but he ended up doing very little in the games itself, and instead existing to gobble up extra RP via 'Recover The Geneseed'.

 

At 50 points some Tacticus Apothecaries seem easy enough to fit in, and I'm interested to see if it's worth loading one into my current (and future) Sternguard squads to keep them shooting a little longer. Is there much point adding one to an Intercessor squad, with or without an Lt in it? 

 

Not looking to assemble any Gravis for a while, so I'm focusing on the basic ones for now. Anyone had good results running them?

 

 To answer your question, any unit you expect to be putting CP into or using to do some heavy lifting, thus making it more valuable to you and a target for you opponent, may benefit from an Apothecary.

[Paladin777]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:59 PM, Karhedron said:

 

The Repulsor also has the advantage of the allowing the Hellblasters to jump back inside if they get charged which is probably much more valuable. If you want to save points, you could put Fire Discipline on the Apothecary and drop the Lt. Lethal Hits are nice but less important when you are shooting at S8.

Maybe, but adding LHs to the combo allows you to punch up to heavier tanks. 
 

Mathematically, adding LH when you're wounding on 4+ is on par with SH1, when wounding on 5+ it's like SH2. 
 

I know that S8 doesn't wound anything on 6+ (unless there's -1 to-wound shenanigans going on), but LHs in that case would be on par with SH5!!!!!

Edited November 24, 2023 by Paladin777