Heresy Thursday - Dark Emissary Consul

[Noserenda]

1 hour ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

Rumour is a World Eaters Preator is done and waiting release. So they haven't forgotten about the missing Preators and I don't think FW even sets the release schedules for things anymore they just design models and GW handles the rules and production.

Cant really credit them for something they have neither previewed nor released yet? 

Also Specialist games (The remains of Forgeworld) handle all of those things right now, at least on the creative end, whilst GW does all the actual production im told SG chooses what goes in their slots in the production queues, they just dont run a second plastic factory for sensible reasons :D 


The current roadmap by dint of keeping things incredibly vague for half the table has kept right on target so far, no reason to imagine thats going to change just yet?

[Sky Potato]

6 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

On a positive note I gotta say the rate that these new consuls are coming out is pretty encouraging. What are up to now 9 this year? Librarian, 2 champions, two tank commanders, Sorcerer, White scars guy whatever the hell they are called, Esoterist, Dark Emissary yeah 9 and if I'm not mistaken a few preators as well. I hope they keep this pace when they start redoing the older specialist units. Whenever that will be. Hopefully soon... Templar Brethren.

 

Exodus as well at the start of the year. Not a consul but a named character for the XX.

[OttoVonAwesome]

5 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Cant really credit them for something they have neither previewed nor released yet? 

Also Specialist games (The remains of Forgeworld) handle all of those things right now, at least on the creative end, whilst GW does all the actual production im told SG chooses what goes in their slots in the production queues, they just dont run a second plastic factory for sensible reasons :D 


The current roadmap by dint of keeping things incredibly vague for half the table has kept right on target so far, no reason to imagine thats going to change just yet?

Can credit em for the spacewolves and death guard preators. I mean there's only a couple left and it's still better to be one of the have nots than one of the haves that got a midget marine. Who the hell knows when they will revisit the nightlords or blood angels for example.

 

37 minutes ago, Sky Potato said:

 

Exodus as well at the start of the year. Not a consul but a named character for the XX.

Missed one. So yeah it's been pretty good especially compared to those years there was like 2 releases in total. There's a consistency that wasn't quite there in the time between Alan Bligh's passing and now. Feels like things are finally back on track even though it's a reboot basically and were still waiting for basic things and refreshes. Fingers crossed it stays that way. Might take three more years at this rate but seems like they'll actually hit the finish line.

[Varyn]

I would imagine that we're unlikely to see full resin HH units for a while/if ever, what was the last one, Ebon Keshig over 3 years ago? I could see a pattern where they update all the plastic armour marks/terminators and make new upgrade kits which will replace the older old full resin kits and old upgrade kits. Lots of the old upgrade kits are going to be obsolete if they replace the current MKIV kit; Templar Bretheren, Headhunters etc.

 

I think that Heresy is in a pretty good place, there is always room for improvement, but I think it's progressing reasonably well.

[Joe]

In case anyone was curious, I've been keeping a chart of all the Heresy Thursday previews so far (will be doing a more general one soon™). This is what the current year is looking like (grey is TBD). The figures may be a bit skewed as certain Heresy Thursday's are counted more than once (heads / shoulder pads), and this also includes Legions Imperialis, but you can see by a considerable slight margin that resin releases edge plastic out in 2023.

 

[Elzender]

Regarding upgrade kits vs full resin kits, I guess we will know once the first special unit gets a new iteration (or a completely new legion specific unit is released). I think it's been years since FW released a special unit as an upgrade pack (Space Wolves grey slayers maybe?), but I guess in hindsight that was because they already knew the new plastic kits were being designed and they would not fit with them. 

 

If they go the route of upgrade kits, I guess now at least they will be able to do whole body upgrades instead of just torso, helmet and pads, as both FW and GW kits are fully digital sculpts now (bar Primarchs). 

[Joe]

The last resin units were the Dark Angels Deathwing Companions, Inner Circle Knights Cenobium and Interemptor Squad in 2020.

[Astartes Consul]

IIRC, it was fairly explicitly stated last year that although Age of Darkness was receiving new plastics sold through the main Games Workshop channels, Forge World would continue to produce characters, special units and upgrade kits in resin. 

 

Obviously, GW/FW could change this at any time. But given this and what we know about the plastic v resin production process, I think it is unlikely. And I'd much rather the Plastic focus remained on core units and (hopefully) getting non-Marine armies more plastic kits.

 

Thinking about it though, there aren't any special units left in the Core Rules that need a kit, are there?

[Sky Potato]

22 minutes ago, Joe said:

The last resin units were the Dark Angels Deathwing Companions, Inner Circle Knights Cenobium and Interemptor Squad in 2020.

Were they before or after the Contekar Terminators for Night Lords - I remember pre ordering the Contekar in January 2021. I've nearly finished painting them by the way 

 

So the last full resin units were start of 2021? Unless anything came after the Contekar?

[Joe]

That's a good point; completely forgot about the Contekar!

 

@Astartes Consul partially. Below is the exact quote, which has gone unchanged since the article was released.

 

Quote

In fact, now is the perfect time to get started with The Horus Heresy. While many general kits in the range will be moving to plastic, there aren’t currently any such plans for the Legion-specific units or Primarchs. So, if you haven’t yet picked a side, you could do worse than collecting your chosen Primarch or other mighty hero in anticipation of a plastic Legion for them to lead.

 

This was followed by a later comment from Andy Hoare in the Free Rules for Classic Mechanicum Units article.

 

Quote

 

Andy: Following the release of Liber Mechanicum,* we have a selection of Expanded Unit army list entries to accompany it. As with the previously-published Legacies of the Age of Darkness – Legiones Astartes document, these entries allow players with older miniatures, or ones that aren’t really part of the core army, to continue using them. 

 

The intent with the Expanded Units entries is that they remain a work in progress until such time as we produce new miniatures, or re-release old ones, at which point they will be published in their final “core” form in a book.

 

 

From this, we can extrapolate that legacies units that are added to the books will likely receive a kit to go alongside them, and by virtue of not having a previously released kit they may be plastic, however they are more likely to release in resin, unless there's a dramatic shift towards bringing legion-specific units into plastic.

[SkimaskMohawk]

11 minutes ago, Joe said:

The intent with the Expanded Units entries is that they remain a work in progress until such time as we produce new miniatures, or re-release old ones, at which point they will be published in their final “core” form in a book.

 

 Ah that explains why all the exemplary battle units were completely un-updated; they needed new models to make the team change them from WIP rules status. 

[Joe]

2 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

 

 Ah that explains why all the exemplary battle units were completely un-updated; they needed new models to make the team change them from WIP rules status. 

 

I think Andy's intent was more like, actual campaign / supplement books than compendium books like the Exemplary Battles book(s). At this time, the EB book series doesn't look like it'll be entirely dissimilar from Chapter Approved, the various compendium books for War Cry, Kill Team, etc.

[Varyn]

1 hour ago, Elzender said:

If they go the route of upgrade kits, I guess now at least they will be able to do whole body upgrades instead of just torso, helmet and pads, as both FW and GW kits are fully digital sculpts now (bar Primarchs). 

 

Thinking about it in more detail, infantry upgrade kits will be tricky as the new MKIII & MKVI don't have 'separate' legs/torsos, which means that upgrade kits may no longer be viable or that they could be limited to heads, shoulders, arms and weapons, which I don't think would work well. Having a legion specific unit who restrict their armour modifications and embellishments to very specific areas of their armour feels and looks wrong, kind of like what we ended up with on the contemptor dreadnoughts.

 

I guess we will have to wait and see, I think we've got 5 more legion specific consuls (DA, EC, IF, WB & AL) to come and it looks like consuls are the flavour of the month for the moment.

 

[Armchair Warlord]

I must say I do like the face sculpt on this one. And I'm very happy to see 'Heresy Thursday' get back to 'full size' releases.

 

However, what I do notice is GW's overall trend with marines (30&40k) is were heading back into the realm of some very undynamic / statuesque poses ..... e.g. the new 40k terminators, the previewed death wing knights and in particular the new Tartaros  Imperial Fist preator compared to the old one. Which I can understand fit certain characters or ranks of consul type, but personally I feel is a massive shame.

 

Poses like these two models - Geigor Fellhand and IF preator in mk.III really are ( I feel) what marines really should be represented as, and the latest trend seems to be regressing back to a 2nd/3rd edition 40k (late 90's to early 2000's era) style like said IF preator and the Death Guard preator.

[loginomicon]

18 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

Bottom row titled Resin, Winter entry "New Characters and Upgrades". It this model not exactly that? So matching exactly the published schedule for the system?

 

 

Seems like the issue is not so much they aren't sticking to a schedule, but that their schedule isn't what you personally would like it to be.

 

Ok but look at it... GW is clearly defined. Assault squad, knight lancer and lords of war. Then look at basically FW part, the only one you can clearly tell is spring and autumn, the other one could be basically anything. You can literally replace the text by (something) it's so vague. I mean come on... 

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, loginomicon said:

Ok but look at it... GW is clearly defined. Assault squad, knight lancer and lords of war. Then look at basically FW part, the only one you can clearly tell is spring and autumn, the other one could be basically anything. You can literally replace the text by (something) it's so vague. I mean come on... 

 

Both rows are Forge World / Specialist Games designed and produced. The reason the top row is more clearly defined is there's a greater lead time / greater importance on certain items being scheduled in for plastic tooling and manufacturing, a facility that both FW/SG and Games Workshop's main Citadel teams share and consequently have to block out much more. They can be much more loose with resin as it's far easier to spool up production on the silicon moulds that they use, and it can largely be done at the drop of a hat.

[Elzender]

@Varyn as a counterpoint, both GW and FW sculptors use now digital tools for sculpting, and I want to think they share assets where possible. This would make it possible to, in theory, design resin legion-specific bits to fit directly into the plastic kits, ie: front torso bits that attach to the back torso+legs, lower legs that fit into the rest of the body.

Given that basic infantry kits only have 5 stock poses, making bits locked to one specific body would at least make them more distiguishable and reduce the cookie cutter look. 

 

This is something that I was surprised that GW did not use with primaris when creating chapter specific upgrade sprues, more specifically with the leg front plates that are sometimes separated from the rest of the leg.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Elzender

[Halandaar]

3 hours ago, loginomicon said:

You can literally replace the text by (something) it's so vague. I mean come on... 

 

Right because "mystery army release" on the top row is so specific....

[MoriyaSchism]

5 hours ago, Armchair Warlord said:

I must say I do like the face sculpt on this one. And I'm very happy to see 'Heresy Thursday' get back to 'full size' releases.

 

However, what I do notice is GW's overall trend with marines (30&40k) is were heading back into the realm of some very undynamic / statuesque poses ..... e.g. the new 40k terminators, the previewed death wing knights and in particular the new Tartaros  Imperial Fist preator compared to the old one. Which I can understand fit certain characters or ranks of consul type, but personally I feel is a massive shame.

 

Poses like these two models - Geigor Fellhand and IF preator in mk.III really are ( I feel) what marines really should be represented as, and the latest trend seems to be regressing back to a 2nd/3rd edition 40k (late 90's to early 2000's era) style like said IF preator and the Death Guard preator

 

Probably the worst model release of the year.

[OttoVonAwesome]

Yeah some of the poses aren't very inspiring but standing firm in frowning judgement is exactly what I pictured a Dark emmissary should be doing most of the time.

[Marshal Loss]

Really love this model - perfectly encapsulates how I thought the consul should look. Keen to see more (even the can't-be-run-in-hereticus Phoenix Warden) over the coming months.

[roryokane]

Another excellent piece by GW. Really like this model. Easily convertible for all sorts of 40k purposes too.

[MegaVolt87]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:20 PM, Astartes Consul said:

IIRC, it was fairly explicitly stated last year that although Age of Darkness was receiving new plastics sold through the main Games Workshop channels, Forge World would continue to produce characters, special units and upgrade kits in resin. 

 

Obviously, GW/FW could change this at any time. But given this and what we know about the plastic v resin production process, I think it is unlikely. And I'd much rather the Plastic focus remained on core units and (hopefully) getting non-Marine armies more plastic kits.

 

Thinking about it though, there aren't any special units left in the Core Rules that need a kit, are there?

 

Its not difficult for HH core to say core rules legion specials have kits now when you move units that don't like Iron Havocks, Fulms, DA killbots etc to expanded units. Its better to get the generics out like tanks and missing infantry into plastic instead. 

[Emperor Ming]

That face

 

Maybe he's seen the light of the Emperor and realised he's peddling a lie

 

Or he's found out that the forces of the arch enemy don't offer a great pension fund

[The Scorpion]

On 11/30/2023 at 6:54 AM, Joe said:

 

 

WarCom Article.

 

Another consul this week, for the best legion of course.

 

This fella looks a lot like a Herald / Esoterist, with all his moon iconography and chaosy stuff, so that is what I will run him as.

The proper Dark Emissary rules do him a disservice, as it can only be used on a tiny allied detachment, and locks it out of using a Rite of War, unlike a cheap Delegatus.