Upcoming BL Stuff 2024

[Master Ciaphas]

10 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Ex Libris is something people put in books in their private collection. Ex Libris John Doe means from the library of John Doe. I've seen it at work when people have sold off the private libraries of lawyers who have passed away.

 

I have a bunch of books from my grandfather - and he, like me, was a bibliophile. He designed his own Ex Libris mark to put into the books he loved the most.  

[Bestkeptsecret]

Anyone has any idea how Typhus manages to escape Terra after The End and the Death book 3? Will the story of how the Death Guard marines escaped the Siege ever be told? Last time he was fighting a Dark Angels squad right? After Horus fell I imagine it must have been very hard for some CSM factions to make their escape. Especially the insane World Eaters, the hedonistic and wild Emperor's Children (who lack self control of any kind to be coordinated enough to make an escape), and the very slow and decaying Death Guard. Also, if Guilliman, Space Wolves, and Dark Angels ships arrive at the end, how do the CSM manage their escape at all? I hope we get a detailed story about that. I think, the Imperium good guys would definitely attempt to overwhelmingly shoot and torpedo the CSM space vessels, so it would be astounding if and how the CSM manage to make their escape to the Eye.

[DarkChaplain]

The entire retreat suffered greatly from Dan not giving a damn about it in TEATD3. Also: Where the feth is Fulgrim? The only traitor primarch not accounted for in the final 6 books of the Siege. They could afford to neckslice Mortarion twice, but Fulgrim never even gets mentioned as being a threat to the Loyalists after Saturnine.

 

The retreat as a whole just got handwaved with the top-down narrative at the end. As it was presented, it is neither believable nor logistically possible for the traitors to pull out when Guilliman's free to head into the system now and the Traitors were stuck at the hardest defenses in the Palace. Nevermind the Phalanx and its part of the fleet heading back in, too.

And then Dan went and bungled up the Iron Warriors, too - the ONLY fleet we knew had actually left the system numerous books ago already. The ONLY one who could make a clean getaway. Instead of bringing them in to at least make the retreat of the others somewhat plausible, he used them for a prologue chapter. Great. And don't even get me started on Lorgar's prologue, which then didn't even get followed up on with anything involving Narek, or the problem with the Trisagion....

[darkhorse0607]

You guys are really focused on the big topics where I'm still mad that one of the cornerstone pieces of 40k artwork since the beginning was Sangiunius lying at Horus' feet while he is confronted by the Emperor but Abnett decided to change it so now all I can think everytime I see one of the artworks is that it didn't happen that way because of reasons

[Jareddm]

51 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

You guys are really focused on the big topics where I'm still mad that one of the cornerstone pieces of 40k artwork since the beginning was Sangiunius lying at Horus' feet while he is confronted by the Emperor but Abnett decided to change it so now all I can think everytime I see one of the artworks is that it didn't happen that way because of reasons

To me, that just makes it like every single Renaissance painting of an event.

[Scribe]

4 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

You guys are really focused on the big topics where I'm still mad that one of the cornerstone pieces of 40k artwork since the beginning was Sangiunius lying at Horus' feet while he is confronted by the Emperor but Abnett decided to change it so now all I can think everytime I see one of the artworks is that it didn't happen that way because of reasons

 

I was working on this long post a few days ago, after much time and thought into the whole Siege fiasco, and TEATD and...I just cannot do it. It was, when taken as a whole, such a massive letdown, missed the mark, cost too much, so much bloat...better instead to just suppress the emotions, and choke it back because man did he ever swing and miss.

 

Some good stuff in there, dont get me wrong, but the promise of a tightly collaborative effort? Nope.

 

And now this supposed anthology? Nope x 2.

[grailkeeper]

If thry do a scouring series I think I'd rather a clean slate rather than a direct continuation of the Heresy. Big ask as there's loads of unresolved story lines. But the idea of a book series where you need to have read a series of 60+ other books could be unappealing.  Marvel movies have the same problem these days. You need to have watched dozens of movies and several TV series to understand what's going on. You can skip some stuff in both cases but it's... sub optimal.

[Felix Antipodes]

I don’t think there is any chance of a Scouring clean slate start.  GW will want to drag in as many HH readers as possible from a sales point of view.  I’m more worried that it will be bogged down by editorial wanting to tie up the bazillion loose ends left over from that series, rather than just concentrating on the big beats of the period.

[TrevorLoLz]

13 hours ago, DarkChaplain said:

The entire retreat suffered greatly from Dan not giving a damn about it in TEATD3. Also: Where the feth is Fulgrim? The only traitor primarch not accounted for in the final 6 books of the Siege. They could afford to neckslice Mortarion twice, but Fulgrim never even gets mentioned as being a threat to the Loyalists after Saturnine.

 

The retreat as a whole just got handwaved with the top-down narrative at the end. As it was presented, it is neither believable nor logistically possible for the traitors to pull out when Guilliman's free to head into the system now and the Traitors were stuck at the hardest defenses in the Palace. Nevermind the Phalanx and its part of the fleet heading back in, too.

And then Dan went and bungled up the Iron Warriors, too - the ONLY fleet we knew had actually left the system numerous books ago already. The ONLY one who could make a clean getaway. Instead of bringing them in to at least make the retreat of the others somewhat plausible, he used them for a prologue chapter. Great. And don't even get me started on Lorgar's prologue, which then didn't even get followed up on with anything involving Narek, or the problem with the Trisagion....

 

Why does Fulgrim matter? It's been in the background for a long, long time that the Emperor's Children quit the Siege. This is what happened. Bringing Fulgrim back would just undermine that.

 

Why would Iron Warriors, who picked up and left, turn around to go and help the others (who they abandoned) retreat safely? Noble comrades in arms, the Iron Warrior's ain't. They are paranoid, bitter and cruel.

 

The retreat was handled fine - diving into the weeds of each Legion's retreat would have dragged the book out well past what's feasible. Again, it was always the case that the Traitors suffered greatly when they retreated, being harrowed all the way to the Eye of Terror. It's made clear in the book that if it wasn't for the defenders being disorganised and shocked, the Traitors would have been wiped out or close enough to it. 

 

The armies and fleets of the Warmaster were meant to be vast, on a scale utterly overwhelming to Terra's defenders. It's entirely feasible that plenty escaped when the time to cut and run came.

[darkhorse0607]

I guess it boils down to just the choices to include and not include things in general (IMO of course)

 

If the Iron Warriors aren't going to go back (or do anything substantial), why even include them at all (and this is coming from someone who thinks they were underrepresented during the siege and will never forgive Gav Thorpe for The First Wall)? Their story is done and was done in Mortis. On the topic of Fulgrim, if he doesn't need to be in the book because it's known that the Emperor's Children leave the Siege, then why are the Iron Warriors in the last book? Or Lorgar for that matter. Or half of what's in the End and the Death

 

When you're opening that can of worms and wrapping up some legions but not others then you're inviting the "what about" questions

Edited August 4 by darkhorse0607

[Scribe]

33 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

When you're opening that can of worms and wrapping up some legions but not others then you're inviting the "what about" questions

 

Almost nothing was even 'wrapped up'. Thats the worst part. The man had 4 over sized novels, and accomplished shockingly little.

[DukeLeto69]

54 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Almost nothing was even 'wrapped up'. Thats the worst part. The man had 4 over sized novels, and accomplished shockingly little.

I am not for one moment defending Abnett or tEatD being three volumes. And I am saying this as a big fan of Abnett…tEatD could have been a cracking single (still big) book. It didn’t need three books (the way it turned out)..,

 

but…

 

Why does everything actually have to be wrapped up? Barring those who died in the siege, and some plotlines that naturally would conclude with the siege, many characters continue forward in the “historic” timeline, for centuries or even millennia (ie for many it wasn’t actually either the end or the(ir) death!)

[darkhorse0607]

Before we get further into the End and the Death discussion, next week has a decent amount of releases

 

Daemonbreaker-Jude Reid (all formats including Limited Edition and miniature)

 

Daemonhammer- Darius Hinks (print, audio, ebook, no Limited Edition)

 

Ravenor (anniversary edition)- Dan Abnett

 

Oaths of Damnation- Robbie MacNiven (print, audio, ebook, no Limited Edition)

 

Saints and Martyrs Omnibus (contains Celestine: The Living Saint, Ephrael Stern: The Heretic Saint and The Triumph of Saint Katherine, plus short story Celestine: Revelation)

 

French/German editions of Daemonbreaker and Ahriman Undying

 

*also I think the problem with things not getting resolved at the end of the Siege is the fact that we don't know if they'll ever be resolved. How long since we have heard from Sevetar? How long have we been waiting for things like Black Legion 3, etc. There is no clear definitive path forward, and that makes it feel like it was now or never

Edited August 4 by darkhorse0607

[Scribe]

57 minutes ago, DukeLeto69 said:

Why does everything actually have to be wrapped up?

Doesn't have to be. The core Suege story, the known beats, the existing characters, it's all compelling enough to have a tightly controlled collaborative climax to the series.

 

We didn't get that.

We also didn't get a whole lot of wrap up.

 

It was just a miss all around, to the point where I have some books in my collection I have read over and over, some being in my possession for over 30 years...and meanwhile TEATD I couldn't sell off fast enough.

[Casual Heresy]

3 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

Before we get further into the End and the Death discussion, next week has a decent amount of releases

 

Daemonbreaker-Jude Reid (all formats including Limited Edition and miniature)

 

Daemonhammer- Darius Hinks (print, audio, ebook, no Limited Edition)

 

Ravenor (anniversary edition)- Dan Abnett

 

Oaths of Damnation- Robbie MacNiven (print, audio, ebook, no Limited Edition)

 

Saints and Martyrs Omnibus (contains Celestine: The Living Saint, Ephrael Stern: The Heretic Saint and The Triumph of Saint Katherine, plus short story Celestine: Revelation)

 

French/German editions of Daemonbreaker and Ahriman Undying

 

*also I think the problem with things not getting resolved at the end of the Siege is the fact that we don't know if they'll ever be resolved. How long since we have heard from Sevetar? How long have we been waiting for things like Black Legion 3, etc. There is no clear definitive path forward, and that makes it feel like it was now or never

Oh between the three novels I want, 2x Aveline (one to paint as is, one for parts to make a cool bloody rose character) and the Imperial Agents book it’s an expensive day next Saturday. 
 

can’t quite bring myself to be upset about that though!

 

I am sorely tempted by the LE of Daemonbreaker though. Very pretty book and I’m a fan of Jude’s work. 

[byrd9999]

I might be alone in that I really enjoyed the Siege, and especially Dan Abnett's books.

 

Gav Thorpe and John French really raised their game (tho Mortis was a slog). Haley was solid as always. ADB and Chris Wraight were excellent, and Dan Abnett gives me my favourite literary Warhammer vibes that I don't quite get from any other author.

 

I saved the last 3 books until I could read them one after the other, and I loved the length of it. I felt a sense of relief when it ended, but in the best ways. I wouldn't have cut anything. The psychic and metaphysical duel between E and Horus? It blew my mind. No one else could have written it better.

 

I'm not sure why everyone has such a jones for a Scouring series. It doesn't sound like anyone here actually likes any series BL has ever put out. Hypothetically, sure it could be the best thing since sliced bread. Realistically, we'd get a Heresy II, or a Beast Arises II, or Dawn of Fire II, or A Siege II, and this board would be full of posts about how BL/editors/Haley/Abnett/Thorpe/favourite bugbear have messed it up yet again and everyone can't sell their Ltd editions (which will be poor quality, or website issues, or eBay scalpers.... ) fast enough.

[Scribe]

8 minutes ago, byrd9999 said:

It doesn't sound like anyone here actually likes any series BL has ever put out.

 

If we are talking multi-author? Yeah, accurate. I cant think of a good one.

 

Self contained (single author) works? Plenty of great trilogies, or works like the Scars arc.

[byrd9999]

I'm clearly talking multi-author series.

 

Do you honestly think there is any chance of a single author Scouring series? I don't. 

[Scribe]

16 minutes ago, byrd9999 said:

I'm clearly talking multi-author series.

 

Do you honestly think there is any chance of a single author Scouring series? I don't. 

 

No, I just hope they dont even try to make it a 'narrative arc'.

 

Tell the stories that happened, dont have any attempt at crossing author's/characters, and let things stand alone as they should.

 

They dont have what it takes to make a good combined narrative.

[DarkChaplain]

19 hours ago, TrevorLoLz said:

 

Why does Fulgrim matter? It's been in the background for a long, long time that the Emperor's Children quit the Siege. This is what happened. Bringing Fulgrim back would just undermine that.

 

Fulgrim matters because he simply dropped off the narrative and not only did he bugger off and "quit" the Siege - his absence went entirely unremarked for half the series, when nobody, least of all Dorn, should have thought him gone. To the very end, he would have been a threat in waiting, even if he was gone. He was dropped off the Siege by Abnett, in a way that doesn't even makes much sense in the grand scheme of things, and we are to believe the Loyalists no longer planned for his presence for the remaining months of the Siege?

 

If he was gone, he needed to be shown as such. Properly. Heck, if Abnett can put dozens of fragments in his finale, including a bunch of interludes to show Lorgar or Perturabo at the edge of the Sol System, the least he should've done is given us a glimpse of Fulgrim diddling his dingdong, maybe even in front of Lucius, who everybody forgot about after The Crimson King. "Lucius, my boy, you wouldn't belieeeeve what's happening on Terra" or somesuch. At least that would have cleared up both their whereabouts during the final stretch.

 

Quote

Why would Iron Warriors, who picked up and left, turn around to go and help the others (who they abandoned) retreat safely? Noble comrades in arms, the Iron Warrior's ain't. They are paranoid, bitter and cruel.

 

Because there is literally no other reason for them to still be in system, from a narrative standpoint. Dan Abnett made the conscious choice to show that they were still sitting in system, despite supposedly having left it months before time and space went completely bonkers around Terra. The decision to bugger off was taken so early into the Siege that it surprised many, it's not like he left just before TEATD.

If they're still here, keeping them as observers makes no sense and adds nothing of value. They'd either have to a) hold back Guilliman at the system edge during the retreat or b) bugger the hell off immediately instead of chilling for months, watching a war they abandoned.

 

Quote

The retreat was handled fine - diving into the weeds of each Legion's retreat would have dragged the book out well past what's feasible. Again, it was always the case that the Traitors suffered greatly when they retreated, being harrowed all the way to the Eye of Terror. It's made clear in the book that if it wasn't for the defenders being disorganised and shocked, the Traitors would have been wiped out or close enough to it. 

 

I disagree. The retreat, or what little we got of it, was handwaved in large parts. Much of that section relies heavily on the reader being in-the-know on the wider 40k setting and plotlines, rather than actually conveying the scale of the traitor retreat and Loyalist reinforcements saving the day. There needn't have been a legion-by-legion rundown, but damn, we're talking about three fat books that were overspilling with fragmentary bits of redshirt characters x and y, and this is where we draw the line and decide not to pay attention to even the key players we've been following so far?

 

 

[darkhorse0607]

I mean in Vol 1 there are literally 3 pages dedicated to the layers of dirt between the Imperial Dungeon and the surface. That could've easily put a pin in some of the other legions or characters, albeit a short pin

 

[Scribe]

10 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

I mean in Vol 1 there are literally 3 pages dedicated to the layers of dirt between the Imperial Dungeon and the surface. That could've easily put a pin in some of the other legions or characters, albeit a short pin

 

 

The fact it was a 3 volume 'Book' is indefensible. V1 especially was just a train wreck. In no way did he need 3 books, and even 2 is a massive stretch.

[Roomsky]

I'm still coutning on a third McNeill Siege book to give time for the Third Legion (and Taranis.) 

 

The Heresy is what got me into the hobby and I love it, warts and all. What it and the other Black Library multi-author affairs teach time and again, though, is that setting is the way to go. The Heresy has a ton of my favourite Black Library books in it because most of the good books didn't rely on you having read the bad ones. Like, being allowed to play in this era at all will inevitably produce some heinous stuff (poor Konrad,) but would I trade The First Heretic to get that stuff excised? My brain says yes, but my heart says no.

 

IF the Scouring is just the Heresy again, and we get a giant mixed bag that nevertheless produces no small amount of gems, I'm totally on board (Monkey's Paw curls.) I just want my Iron Cage, my Eskrador, my Caliban, my Thessala not attached to a Dark Imperium novel, my breaking of the legions, and a whole bunch of people on Terra trying to pick up the pieces. The mystique of the era is already gone, keeping some of those formative events as vague as they are at this point adds nothing, IMO.

Edited August 5 by Roomsky

[cheywood]

I gotta say I’m way more interested in the upcoming novels we’ll get in three weeks than continuing to discuss why the siege was or wasn’t a huge disappointment, but that opinion might be in the minority.

Edited August 5 by cheywood

[Scribe]

10 minutes ago, cheywood said:

I gotta say I’m way more interested in the upcoming novels we’ll get in three weeks than continuing to discuss why the siege was or wasn’t a huge disappointment, but that opinion might be in the minority.

 

Apologies, it was something bouncing around my head the last few weeks, I'll take it elsewhere. :D