how many points is the dark angels inner circle going to be?

[Lion El Johnson]

ive been working on a dark angels army and ive been wondering how many points the dark angels inner circle going to be worth

[Karhedron]

Probably similar to Bladeguard Vets or a little more IMHO. Maybe 100 points for 3?

 

Just a guess of course

[Tacitus]

I'm pretty curious about this... I don't see any 4++ Storm Shields - which is one of the big attractions and points costs from BGV.   Maybe they have an Iron Halo instead of a Storm Shield. 

[Marshall Bretton]

Black templar sword brethren are 140 PTS for 5. My assumption is that it would be something similar given they look to be a similar unit

[Tacitus]

13 hours ago, Marshall Bretton said:

Black templar sword brethren are 140 PTS for 5. My assumption is that it would be something similar given they look to be a similar unit

They look like two and only two based on the photos - like the Victrix Guard for UM.  They may have an Ancient upgrade option.  They may have a Heavy Bolt Pistol (or it may be limited to the Ancient Upgrade version.  They may just be an all Greatsword and Heavy Bolt Pistol version of the Company Heroes squad. 

 

The PPM is going to depend on a few things:  Are they a squad, or do they join the hero that then joins a squad like the Victrix + Calgar?  Do they have a 4++?   Or even better a 4+++?

Without a 4++ they're worse off than BGV/Victrix.  If they're they're own squad like Company Heroes they're less than the Victrix.   If they're essentially 2BGV per HQ you can assign to each and every HQ that can then still join a BGV etc squad they're going to be the best of the best out of all of them and I wouldn't blink at something closer to 40PPM if Victric are 35ish. 

[WrathOfTheLion]

There are three distinct poses in the images, so they're almost certainly in a box of three, not two. They should be pretty equivalent to a BGV squad as far as size goes, so 3 or 6.

[Tacitus]

1 hour ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

There are three distinct poses in the images, so they're almost certainly in a box of three, not two. They should be pretty equivalent to a BGV squad as far as size goes, so 3 or 6.

Good catch - so that likely answers one of the questions - they'll likely be a 3/6 Squad to be joined instead of bonus Character models. 

[Marshall Bretton]

Yeah squad size definitely looks like 3 - 6. Purely using sword brethren as a comparison as I think they will be pretty close in terms of rules and capabilities: elite bodyguard unit with no option for shield but made up for with extra rules or wargear options.

 

So if sword breth are 140 for 5, that's 28 ppm which would put companions at something like 83 PTS for 3.

[Karhedron]

But more info here, looks like a squad is 6 (5 + Ancient).

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/15/under-the-hood-with-the-inner-circle-companions-of-the-dark-angels/

 

I see 3 poses there so it looks like 2x3. Whether you can run a 3-man squad remains to be see.

 

Edited January 15 by Karhedron

[unrealchamp88]

One thing to consider is the Ancient here is actually armed with a power weapon, unlike the BG Ancient who, weirdly, only has a heavy bolt pistol and no power weapon.

 

Not sure if anyone has noted this in their points estimate, but thought i'd mention it.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I doubt it's a separate character, but that one member of the squad can be upgraded with a banner.

[Karhedron]

27 minutes ago, WrathOfTheLion said:

I doubt it's a separate character, but that one member of the squad can be upgraded with a banner.

 

Like the Heroes of the Company, it probably just confers +1OC or something similar.

[Marshall Bretton]

I would be interested to know what the very prominent censer represents. Given how much it stands out I would be surprised if it was just to make the model look cooler.

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Marshall Bretton said:

I would be interested to know what the very prominent censer represents. Given how much it stands out I would be surprised if it was just to make the model look cooler.

 

It really puts me in mind of the Judiciar's Tempormortis/Hourglass. Maybe it does the same job and gives them First Strike. I agree it looks too distinctive to be just decoration. I feel it needs a cool rule. 

[Blindhamster]

they look interesting, seems likely to be a 3-6 man unit. Greatswords of ancient calibanite design makes me thing of the.. terranic greatswords? (although their name implies terran). Maybe they'll have basically relic swords with something like devastating wounds built in

 

As others said, the ancient almost certainly provides a simple OC+1.

 

They're actively called out as bodyguards so I'd bet on them having the same -1 to wound that company heroes and sanguinary guard get when joined to a character.

 

I'm torn on saves, could see them being 2+ or 3+/4++ but don't think they'll get both.

 

how many wounds do sword bros have? company heroes are 4, bladeguard are 3, sanguinary guard are 2.

 

I have a feeling these guys may be WS 2+

 

As for points, I'm going to guess similar to bladeguard as others have said, I think their offensive output will be a bit better, and their bodyguard rule will be what gives them resilience, similar to company heroes.

[Tacitus]

I think if they don't get an invuln/FNP save they have a pretty rough road to viability/meta.  BGV will just take their spot by having MC Powerswords and a 4++. 

[aura_enchanted]

it basically the lion + a bunch of useless junk, as theres no real use for a bunch of terminators without storm shields and cyclones so actually the box is pretty damn useless. and until the lion gets a rework on his actually doesnt work at all on tabletop shield he is also useless. TLDR dont buy this box.. pretty much ever

Edited January 16 by aura_enchanted

[Marshall Bretton]

8 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

 

how many wounds do sword bros have? company heroes are 4, bladeguard are 3, sanguinary guard are 2.

 

Sword breth have 3 wounds. They are also ws 3+.

 

Whilst they are technically a bodyguard unit their special rule is focussed toward offense with the ability to add 1 attack or 1 damage to their melee weapons.

The key difference I think is wargear as it looks like the companions are stuck with greatswords and heavy bolt pistols whilst sword breth get multiple melee and ranged weapon options.

 

It will be interesting to see how they compare given most of the specialist chapters have something similar in terms of unit so would be a benchmark potentially moving forward (SW wolf guard, BA sanguinary guard etc)

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, aura_enchanted said:

it basically the lion + a bunch of useless junk, as theres no real use for a bunch of terminators without storm shields and cyclones so actually the box is pretty damn useless.

 

Now that Termies get a native 4++, I think Storm Shields are a lot less important than they were in 8th/9th. Besides, the DWKs are coming with Storm Shields.

 

[Tacitus]

Yeah Termies with a native 4++ are a bigger upgrade than Termies with a native 4++ and 1 extra wound.   With that said, I could see them going a weird/fluffy route and give them the No targetting outside 12 thing like I do with Phobos Libby + Infiltrators which makes Guilliman and the Infils basically an entire brick of Lone Operative + some.   If these guys do that, they don't necessarily need the 4++ by doing the targetting thing, and it would be sort of hunter fluffy as they "stalk their prey".  But I'm just wishcasting and theory crafting.  We'll really just have to wait a couple weeks and see. 

[Tokugawa]

They looks like DA unique company heroes, so I guess the point cost will be underpriced, but must leaded by character/only trigger main abilities when leaded by character.

[Tacitus]

Yeah, I think most people are on that page now, but if they're not a good bodyguard, they're going to be overpriced even if they're free.  The Company Heroes unit fell flat because they're not a good bodyguard.   One Melee, One Heavy Bolter, no Apothecary/Invuln/defensives. They're just not durable enough to actually guard a body.  So its going to come down to what these guys have to make them worth taking more than a BGV/Terminator/T6 Gravis bodyguard. 

[Blindhamster]

7 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Yeah, I think most people are on that page now, but if they're not a good bodyguard, they're going to be overpriced even if they're free.  The Company Heroes unit fell flat because they're not a good bodyguard.   One Melee, One Heavy Bolter, no Apothecary/Invuln/defensives. They're just not durable enough to actually guard a body.  So its going to come down to what these guys have to make them worth taking more than a BGV/Terminator/T6 Gravis bodyguard. 

... you do realise that company heroes havent fallen flat, they're cheap enough that they've been seen used in fairly major tournaments.

[Lion El Jason]

I hope they don't have a inv save so I can use them with Azrael for max synergy.
With Deathwing Knights being nerfed to total unplayability I just really need these guys to have Damage 2 Power Swords.

 

Overall the "Dark Angel Range Reduction" looks terrible.  I may have to get as many games in as I can before this disaster of a codex hits.

[Karhedron]

Stats for the Inner Circle Companions have leaked, the following comes courtesy of Valrak's stream.

 

Quote

Inner Circle Companions:
3-6 per unit. Can be attached to any Character that can be attached to Sternguard Veterans.
W3 T4 no invuln.
Weapons Profile: Heavy Bolt Pistol Calibanite Great Sword Strike Profile: Lethal Hits A4 WS3 S6 AP-1 D2 Sweep Profile: Sustained Hits 2 A4 WS3 S6 AP-1 D1
Braziers of Judgement: "while a character model is leading this unit each time an attack targets this unit, subtract 1 from the hit roll"
Enmity of the Unworthy: "each time a model in this unit makes an attack that targets a character unit, add 1 to the hit roll"

 

As expected they seem to be slightly hittier than BGVs but lacking a native Invuln. They have impressive synergy with Azrael who gives them a 4++ while they give him -1 to Hti on incoming attacks. He also gives them both Lethal Hits and Sustained 1 for both attack modes.

 

Not sure they are much good if you are not taking Azzy though. For most other Charaters, BGVs seem better. However what is interesting is that they have some Character options not open to BGVs. For example, a squad with a Captain/Azzy can still attach an Apothecary which is not an option for BGVs.

 

Depending on price, I can see these guys seeing some play.