Deathwatch: Murderers in Black (OOC Thread)

[Trokair]

@Lysimachus did Bouchard follow Alda/Godfrey up the stairs? 

I have a little scene in mind. 

 

 

[Lysimachus]

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Yep.

 

 

In my defence, I was building Jennings to survive a Round or two of being attacked by multiple opponents and ranged weaponry. However, it's possible those abilities might make him a bit too tough against 1 opponent in CC...? Although Step Aside is irrelevant as Omoc only attacks once per Round. But I might say the Force field is only vs Ranged Attacks, if it seems its making it impossible to push any Hits/Damage through.

 

 

58 minutes ago, Trokair said:

@Lysimachus did Bouchard follow Alda/Godfrey up the stairs? 

I have a little scene in mind. 

 

I think Bouchard would have been allowed past by the Biters, but he probably wouldn't have been bold enough to follow Alda up the steps towards Jennings. So he's hanging around somewhere at the bottom, I guess, if that works for what you had in mind?

 

 

 

[A.T.]

1 hour ago, Lysimachus said:

In my defence, I was building Jennings to survive a Round or two of being attacked by multiple opponents and ranged weaponry. However, it's possible those abilities might make him a bit too tough against 1 opponent in CC...?

 

I was just planning on killing strike-grappling him and then groundpounding him with the triple strength solo mode until his shield gave out. Omoc is not one to overcomplicate things.

[Machine God]

Post edited:

 

https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382431-deathwatch-murderers-in-black-ic-thread/page/27/#findComment-6080920

 

 

 

 

 

[Necronaut]

1 hour ago, A.T. said:

 

I was just planning on killing strike-grappling him and then groundpounding him with the triple strength solo mode until his shield gave out. Omoc is not one to overcomplicate things.

 

<Brother Omoc reaches into his belt pouch and ritually dons an intricately stitched, crimson leather mask, tying it over his blackened ceramite helm, becoming El Escorpión Rojo, a well-regarded folk hero and luchador revered across many Imperial worlds. He then climbs the ropes and stands upon a corner post of the arena.>

 

"Amongst my people, this manoeuvre is called 'The Emperor's Elbow!' FACE HIS JUDGEMENT, HERETIC!" 

 

<El Escorpión Rojo leaps from the top rope performing a swan dive into his signature finishing move. The crowd is brought to tears by the majesty and sheer manliness of the spectacle and erupts into wild cheers.>

Edited December 13 by Necronaut

[Lysimachus]

1 hour ago, A.T. said:

 

I was just planning on killing strike-grappling him and then groundpounding him with the triple strength solo mode until his shield gave out. Omoc is not one to overcomplicate things.

 

Definitely sounds like a good plan to me. I assume you mean either Killing Strike or Grappling, rather than some sort of combo, as Killing Strike only works with an All Out Attack Action, not a Grapple? Killing Strike certainly seems the better option, as Grapple would allow Parry+Counter-Attack? Then I guess it comes down to whether you can take his Field out and his Wounds down before you run out of FP?

 

Anyway, sorry for delay, I'm just getting a post together to kick the duel off.

 

Edited December 14 by Lysimachus

[Mazer Rackham]

Luchador my foot.

 

Man said he does simple:

 

[Necronaut]

@Mazer Rackham I mean the WWE Raw approach is also acceptable. No complaints here.

[Machine God]

If has a built in Cybernetic - Augur Array from character generation (Because there has been no posts in IC to state that he got Zidemi to implant it later!), why didn't he use the Auspex to scan the MotM? 

 

 

 

 

[Lysimachus]

Yep, it's definitely not from character creation, I think the only way for a non-Techmarine to get one at that point is one of the RoB Deeds (and AT took a different Deed)

 

But yeah, it's on the Req sheet, and I don't think(?) you can use Req to take Bionics, hence my confusion...

 

[A.T.]

With regards to the grapple - it is unarmed damage, and marines have unarmed mastery so it isn't primitive.

 

Falling damage is also an option as Omoc could caber toss the guy :p

 

[Mazer Rackham]

36 minutes ago, A.T. said:

With regards to the grapple - it is unarmed damage, and marines have unarmed mastery so it isn't primitive.

 

Beat me to it - yes, and you never count as unarmed. (Still need a weapon to Parry, but that's it due to Unarmed Master, Unarmed Warrior).

 

Grapple for Marines gets...complicated..!

 

36 minutes ago, A.T. said:

Falling damage is also an option as Omoc could caber toss the guy :p

 

Dougie MacIsaac expects....

 

Edited December 14 by Mazer Rackham

[Lysimachus]

That's an excellent point, I wasn't thinking about Unarmed Warrior/Mastery. So that would definitely up the amount of Damage Omoc could potentially put through, though it would still take a few Rounds.

 

Honestly, I think now that the Grapple has succeeded (that Feint Roll was just too good to beat!) it's basically a foregone conclusion, there isn't really any way for him to escape it, so it makes sense to end the Structured fight and let Omoc finish him off narratively?

 

Side point: If you're gonna throw him somewhere, there is the bonfire right there…? 
 

[Lysimachus]

Follow-up rules question (not that I'm planning to apply it in this situation, just curious):

 

Feint says it must be followed by a Standard Attack in order to get the benefit. Fortunately, Standard Attack specifies that this includes a Grapple… but does say ‘if the attacking character is unarmed’.

 

Unarmed Warrior says that someone with that Talent (including all Astartes) does not count as unarmed when facing an armed opponent.

 

So putting those things together, RAW, if the opponent is armed, an Unarmed Warrior can't use Feint+Grapple, as he also isn't unarmed.

 

Is that right, or just a weird wording loophole? 

[Mazer Rackham]

3 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

Unarmed Warrior says that someone with that Talent (including all Astartes) does not count as unarmed when facing an armed opponent.

 

So putting those things together, RAW, if the opponent is armed, an Unarmed Warrior can't use Feint+Grapple, as he also isn't unarmed.

 

Is that right, or just a weird wording loophole? 

 

It's another instance of FFG double-dip on words - since unarmed doesn't mean Unarmed. 

 

In this instance, Unarmed Warrior provides your operator/Rosetta stone:

 

P.129, DW Core: Unarmed Warrior says:

 

'Because of the character’s advanced training against both armed and unarmed foes, he does not count as Unarmed, as defined on page 245, when making attacks against armed opponents.'

 

Ok, let's go there.

 

P.245, DW Core: Unarmed Attacks says:

 

'The attacker then makes a Challenging (+0) Weapon Skill Test, or if his opponent is armed with a weapon, a Hard (–20) Weapon Skill Test.'

 

Essentially, then, a Space Marine never takes the -20 WS Test for using Karate (or in Azadth's case, Taekwondo) against a dude with a sharp stick.

 

He still needs a weapon to Parry, though.

 

Edited December 14 by Mazer Rackham
Formatting

[Lysimachus]

 Ugh. Of course that's what it means. I thought how I was reading it didn't make sense (that's why I was planning on ignoring it) but I just couldn't see why!

Thanks Mazer!

Edited December 14 by Lysimachus

[A.T.]

3 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

Honestly, I think now that the Grapple has succeeded (that Feint Roll was just too good to beat!) it's basically a foregone conclusion, there isn't really any way for him to escape it, so it makes sense to end the Structured fight and let Omoc finish him off narratively?

 

Torn between punching him out and properly smashing him - on the one hand Omoc would know he might have information, on the other hand taking full control of the market is more important and 'krumping 'im proppa ded' means he can probably get the biters to put out the fires and round up the heretics...

[Mazer Rackham]

Perhaps half throttling him, and hurling him down the steps in contempt as not worth killing? Then you get both?

[A.T.]

3 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Perhaps half throttling him, and hurling him down the steps in contempt as not worth killing? Then you get both?

 

Perhaps, but I think ultimately not Omocs way.

[A.T.]

6 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

Yep, it's definitely not from character creation, I think the only way for a non-Techmarine to get one at that point is one of the RoB Deeds (and AT took a different Deed)

 

But yeah, it's on the Req sheet, and I don't think(?) you can use Req to take Bionics, hence my confusion...

 

Regarding this one - there aren't any in-rules blocks against requisitioning bionics, just in character. I had picked up the auger/pict recorder for Omoc thinking this was a slightly longer 'wander the corridors of intrigue' mission where he was going to try and map out places and targets (and lacked the tech ability/stealth to walk around staring at an auger screen :p)

 

Now Iron Hands characters on the other hand need to fight the temptation to spend half of their requisition each mission on 'upgrades'. Deus Ex Ferrum.

[Necronaut]

57 minutes ago, A.T. said:

 

Torn between punching him out and properly smashing him - on the one hand Omoc would know he might have information, on the other hand taking full control of the market is more important and 'krumping 'im proppa ded' means he can probably get the biters to put out the fires and round up the heretics...

 

I believe the word you're looking for here is "power bomb." Leave him a quadriplegic -- he'll be much easier to capture and interrogate later.

[Mazer Rackham]

1 hour ago, Necronaut said:

I believe the word you're looking for here is "power bomb." Leave him a quadriplegic -- he'll be much easier to capture and interrogate later.

 

Son, if you join the Only War game we're playing, I'mma give you so much spiritual direction, you'll be telling time thinking Sunday is the hour hand, and School is for minutes!

[Necronaut]

On that note I need to knuckle down and get to work on character creation. Have a couple of competing character ideas but I'm unsure what to run with.

[Lysimachus]

Mod voice:

 

=][= Some posts removed. Let's chill please. =][=

 

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting any dishonesty on anyone's part, just that we might have a different reading of the rules.

 

To be fair, having reread the opening paragraph of the Cybernetics section, it's not exactly... transparent, is it?

 

At the start it says the Req/Renown for Cybernetics is just listed for reference, but they are used when damaged bits need to be replaced, which certainly implies to me that they aren't available for normal Requisition?

 

However, on the other hand, at the end of the same section (which I hadn't ever spotted) it says that you pay the Req cost for it, but keep it permanently, which implies the opposite, that Cybernetics can be bought with Req.

 

It's very odd to me, because I would have said Requistioned stuff is for the current mission only, and then you give it back? It doesn't carry over? So why would it allow the advantage of Req'ing stuff you then get to keep permanently?

 

I'm very interested in knowing how others view it (if expressed in a respectful manner).

 

 

 

 

I know if the consensus is that you can Req Cybernetics, I'm quite sure I will be seriously considering it in future as a player! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14 by Lysimachus

[A.T.]

2 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

It's very odd to me, because I would have said Requistioned stuff is for the current mission only, and then you give it back? It doesn't carry over? So why would it allow the advantage of Req'ing stuff you then get to keep permanently?

 

I think it stands out more in short-mission games where requisition is refreshed frequently during travel from place to place because the requisition cost becomes a minor inconvenience rather than a life threatening shortage of weaponry.

 

Though I only recall one player - an Iron Hands librarian - taking limbs without losing them first.