Iron Hands - 2000pt List

[Ignatius Numen]

Looking for some comments and feedback on a list I've dreamt up. 

2k points, going to use this in some Siege of Cthonia missions to start. 

 

I love my tanks and own lots, but have had such a hard time with them blowing up very fast lately and although I've employed some different tactics, I'm going to try and lean into the Iron Hands legion strengths of -1S vs shooting instead.

 

No Rite of War

 

HQ's

145pts - Centurion - Moritat Consul 

2x Grav Pistols

Chainsword

Warhawk Jump Pack 

 

95pts - Centurion - Master of Signals Consul

BP/CS

 

160pts - Legion Centurion Tartaros - Warmonger Consul - Warlord - Silver Iron Will Warlord Trait

Switch for Gorgon Armor

1 Lightning Claw

1 Power Fist

Cyber Familiar for 4+ Invul

 

ELITES

45pts - Apothecary Detachment

1x Legion Apothecary

 

380pts - Terminator Cataphractii Squad

Sergeant with Chainfist and Cyber Familiar

7x Cataphractii all with Power Firsts and Bolters

Legion Vexilla

 

TROOPS

211 pts - Reconnaissance Squad

Sergeant and 7x Recon Marines with Nemesis Bolters

 

100pts - Tactical Squad - Bare Bones

 

100pts - Tactical Squad - Bare Bones

 

100pts - Tactical Squad - Bare Bones

 

225pts - Deredeo Dreadnought Squad

Hellfire Plasma Cannonade

Twin Heavy Bolter

Aiolos Missile Launcher

 

125pts - Heavy Support Squad

5x Volkite Culverins

 

315pts - Leviathan Dreadnought Talon

Storm Cannon

Siege Claw

Twin Linked Volkite Calivers

Phosphex Discharger

 

Total: 2001 Pts

 

 

Plan is to run the tactical's to objectives as their are a decent amount in the game we will play - get that FnP. Deredo going for power armor squads mainly but even terminators or other elites is fine. Leviathan is for a scare factor and he will head for other scary units, Terminators, HQ squads, dreads, whatever, maybe draw some fire. Volkite Culverins to take out other heavy weapon squads or objective takers. Recon squad, hopefully pin units, take out HQ's. Master of signals will go with Recon Squad so they have night vision and +1BS, he will also be using his jammer to push off enemy deepstrikes and help the snipers do an interceptor if the enemy does deepstrike in. Apothecary will *probably* go with the volkite. The Moritat with the Grav is for anti tank/dreads.

Warmonger with the Cataphractii will deepstrike in to hit enemy warlord and his squad, getting slay the warlord and taking out elites. Hopefully I can pre-empt their deepstrike by softening up their target the turn or 2 prior. Reason for the Gorgon armor is he can take 1 claw and 1 fist for wargear with gorgon armor and still get a 4+ invul. Someone correct me if I'm crazy but I believe you can swap any character from other terminator armor into gorgon armor for free, no I am using the wargear option from gorgon terminators which says they can swap a gun for a claw, then a power weapon for a fist. Let me know if I'm wrong lol Just be nice to choose what profile I want. 

Night fighting is fine for this list I feel, lots of negative strength to shooting, and the snipers can still do work with the master of Signal. in these missions its usually short table sides for deployment so running units is ok. I would usually take rhinos and land raiders but they just seem to die so fast to 1 lucky 6 lately. Considered taking 1 predator or a Sicaran punisher instead of the HSS and Apothecary but I am unsure. 

 

Your help is appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pearson73]

I think that with swapping Gorgon armour you still use the Praetor entry for determining weapons, but I'm not 100%. 

 

I'm typically inclined to run larger tactical squads, but maybe with three small ones you get the benefit of target saturation! Maybe you could swap one to an assault squad to join the Moritat? I also run my Iron Hands infantry heavy and often feel like they're very slow, so some scoring mobility might be appreciated! 

 

Love to see a Leviathan! I ran one recently and they are such beasts with our legion rule. Just look out for rending! Also bloody slow though, so the storm cannon is a good choice I think.

 

Would love to see some photos of your force by the way!

[Razorblade]

1. I'm pretty sure terminator characters can't dual wield outside of Twin lightning Claws 

2. That Terminatorsquad is going to be massacred by any warlord (and their retinue) worth their salt. You'd need Morlocks or a TH Command Squad to deal with elite targets in Melee.

3. This is personal pedantism but what's with the odd-numbered Squads? 

4. When foot-slogging tacticals I think it is vastly preferable to run larger (15) squads with apothecaries

[Ignatius Numen]

14 hours ago, Pearson73 said:

I think that with swapping Gorgon armour you still use the Praetor entry for determining weapons, but I'm not 100%. 

 

I'm typically inclined to run larger tactical squads, but maybe with three small ones you get the benefit of target saturation! Maybe you could swap one to an assault squad to join the Moritat? I also run my Iron Hands infantry heavy and often feel like they're very slow, so some scoring mobility might be appreciated! 

 

Love to see a Leviathan! I ran one recently and they are such beasts with our legion rule. Just look out for rending! Also bloody slow though, so the storm cannon is a good choice I think.

 

Would love to see some photos of your force by the way!

Thanks for your feedback great points. I will post some pictures later of what i'v got. 

 

I think you are right, I was looking at the gorgon terminator squad wargear options not a centurion/praetor. 

 

I have lots of tacticals to run bigger squads and that's a good idea throwing an apothecary in with them. I unfortunately don't have an assault squad built yet but will be adding one in the future for quick objective grabbing. 

 

The leviathan has ALWAYS done great work for me in the past, I usually run the melta and claw on him but thought I would go with the storm cannon for this match, also like it. He is a slow boy is the only thing. 

 

[Ignatius Numen]

9 hours ago, Razorblade said:

1. I'm pretty sure terminator characters can't dual wield outside of Twin lightning Claws 

2. That Terminatorsquad is going to be massacred by any warlord (and their retinue) worth their salt. You'd need Morlocks or a TH Command Squad to deal with elite targets in Melee.

3. This is personal pedantism but what's with the odd-numbered Squads? 

4. When foot-slogging tacticals I think it is vastly preferable to run larger (15) squads with apothecaries

Hey thanks for your feedback. 

 

1. Your correct I was looking at the Gorgon term squad not a centurion/praetor. 

2. Fair point on the term squad. I want an elite HQ squad and I have a bunch of regular cataphractii tooled up, my half gorgon armor half cataphractii terminators that I am making into Morlocks are in my pile of shame still, but your right I should use a 5 man Morlock squad instead. I will just call my regular guys Morlocks for the time being. 

3. I literally just played around with some spare points that I had, I couldn't find anything meaningful to add so I just slapped a couple extra bodies in squads. My OCD also hates it but I was at a loss for what to do. 

4. I am going to rework this list with that recommendation, I want 3 scoring units, Ideally I think I would have 2x 15 man w/apothecaries and a single 10-15 man assault squad but all I have built and painted are tactiacls at the moment. I think I have 40 ish tacticals total to use.

 

Question though - How do you typically run Tactial squads with upgrades? I was religiously using AA, chain bayonets and the odd power weapon but I just cant seem to get ANY mileage out of them, thus going bare bones and spending the points somewhere else. 

[Pearson73]

8 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

 

The leviathan has ALWAYS done great work for me in the past, I usually run the melta and claw on him but thought I would go with the storm cannon for this match, also like it. He is a slow boy is the only thing. 

 

 

I've only fielded it once and used the grav bombard because it looks so cool. Tremendously underwhelming rules-wise though. Defo need to pick up the ranged weapons upgrade for it.

8 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

 

Question though - How do you typically run Tactial squads with upgrades? I was religiously using AA, chain bayonets and the odd power weapon but I just cant seem to get ANY mileage out of them, thus going bare bones and spending the points somewhere else. 

 

I had been running a twenty/fifteen man squad with chainswords, power blade and artificier on the sergeant, but the chain swords are just too expensive. The feeling I have is that against other tacticals/support squads/etc the upgrades are really beneficial, but if you get caught by a proper combat unit, you get massacred regardless. Last game a unit of eight or so Night Raptors charged my fifteen tacticals and just obliterated them in one round... For small ten man squads I do like a combi-plasma or something on the sergeant. Gives them an extra bit of utility.

[Razorblade]

9 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

Question though - How do you typically run Tactial squads with upgrades? I was religiously using AA, chain bayonets and the odd power weapon but I just cant seem to get ANY mileage out of them, thus going bare bones and spending the points somewhere else. 

I like fifteen with an apo. AA on the sergeant and a Vexilla if you have the points. Nuncios are great if you're running high value templates (Scorpii) anyway but not worth it purely for the nightfighting buff. The units job is to be hard to remove while scoring objectives, it gets worse at that point-for-point if you invest in offensive upgrades.

 

9 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

2. Fair point on the term squad. I want an elite HQ squad and I have a bunch of regular cataphractii tooled up, my half gorgon armor half cataphractii terminators that I am making into Morlocks are in my pile of shame still, but your right I should use a 5 man Morlock squad instead. I will just call my regular guys Morlocks for the time being. 

Be sure to build one with a legion standard so you get that extra line unit ;) 

Aldo, I believe you will have to look for alternate methods of transportation or cut the moritat as the morlocks are going to take up a HQ Slot one way or another

[AdamR]

4 hours ago, Pearson73 said:

 

I've only fielded it once and used the grav bombard because it looks so cool. Tremendously underwhelming rules-wise though. Defo need to pick up the ranged weapons upgrade for it.

 

 

 

Love Leviathans - especially Drill & Claw versions.

First 2.0 event I did, my Leviathan managed to take down a Cerastus!

 

Good times :p

[AdamR]

12 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

 

 

Question though - How do you typically run Tactial squads with upgrades? I was religiously using AA, chain bayonets and the odd power weapon but I just cant seem to get ANY mileage out of them, thus going bare bones and spending the points somewhere else. 

 

I tend to go either all out 20 man with artificer, fist, vexilla, chainblades, apothecary, similar but 10 man in a rhino or basic 10 man bare bones home objective sitter.

20 man squad can be tough to shift especially with some kind of leadership buff.

 

EDIT: on your warmonger, is there a reason you've not just stuck him in cataphractii for the 3++ with familar?
And - in your Cataphractii, maybe drop one fist to a power weapon and upgrade two of the others to thunder hammers?

Edited January 26 by AdamR

[Ignatius Numen]

19 hours ago, Pearson73 said:

 

I've only fielded it once and used the grav bombard because it looks so cool. Tremendously underwhelming rules-wise though. Defo need to pick up the ranged weapons upgrade for it.

 

I had been running a twenty/fifteen man squad with chainswords, power blade and artificier on the sergeant, but the chain swords are just too expensive. The feeling I have is that against other tacticals/support squads/etc the upgrades are really beneficial, but if you get caught by a proper combat unit, you get massacred regardless. Last game a unit of eight or so Night Raptors charged my fifteen tacticals and just obliterated them in one round... For small ten man squads I do like a combi-plasma or something on the sergeant. Gives them an extra bit of utility.

I agree the grav flux is my favorite weapon but soooo underwhelming. It was better in 1.0 imo. 

 

I agree with you, Tactical Squads I feel you need to know what mission your playing or their ALWAYS kitted out wrong. I choose to go full CS's /AA/Pwr fist, vexilla ect.....and they get wiped out by long range fire or an elite cc unit that doesn't even notice them. Next game their bare bones and I reeeeally coulda used the chain bayonets to gain an edge. Its hard to find a balance, I recently tried pwr sword on sarg, chain bayonets only and one squad got SMASHED by a large assault squad, the other got mowed down by combined shooting and finished off by veterans. They were hardly a speed bump...haha 

 

If you have a specific goal for them ahead of time you can properly equip them and they are fine. Some games I play are random and I don't have a choice really with what I need them to do and usually the upgrades are wasted. Vexilla is one upgrade that's usually a good choice I will say. 

[Ignatius Numen]

18 hours ago, Razorblade said:

I like fifteen with an apo. AA on the sergeant and a Vexilla if you have the points. Nuncios are great if you're running high value templates (Scorpii) anyway but not worth it purely for the nightfighting buff. The units job is to be hard to remove while scoring objectives, it gets worse at that point-for-point if you invest in offensive upgrades.

 

Be sure to build one with a legion standard so you get that extra line unit ;) 

Aldo, I believe you will have to look for alternate methods of transportation or cut the moritat as the morlocks are going to take up a HQ Slot one way or another

Apo is a great on 15+ man unit, get lots of value I feel. Vexilla yes it usually pays off when I actually spare the points for one. Unfortunately my Scorpius is still in pieces on my hobby table otherwise I would do the augury, I always bring 2 for my vindicators. I feel if their just for scoring, make them just survivable enough to do that and dont count on bolt guns for much help. if they kill some guys, sweet. if not their like a wound pool for objectives in alot of games. which sucks because I love tacticals and want to field 50 every game but they suck lol 

On the Legion standard - Yes, its an auto include I feel, always get use out of it. Yeah I forgot they take an HQ slot.......darnit. I was thinking they were just a retinue. Man I wish we got Morlocks as a elite choice, 3-10 guys, and thunderhammers. That was WAY too much to ask for though apparently. Just be happy we got anything haha 

[Ignatius Numen]

16 hours ago, AdamR said:

 

Love Leviathans - especially Drill & Claw versions.

First 2.0 event I did, my Leviathan managed to take down a Cerastus!

 

Good times :p

 

Knights and Titians are scared of the Leviathans drill claw haha Most of the weapon options are awesome, they just need to do something with the grav flux. 

[Ignatius Numen]

16 hours ago, AdamR said:

 

I tend to go either all out 20 man with artificer, fist, vexilla, chainblades, apothecary, similar but 10 man in a rhino or basic 10 man bare bones home objective sitter.

20 man squad can be tough to shift especially with some kind of leadership buff.

 

EDIT: on your warmonger, is there a reason you've not just stuck him in cataphractii for the 3++ with familar?
And - in your Cataphractii, maybe drop one fist to a power weapon and upgrade two of the others to thunder hammers?

I'm thinking now 2x 15 man squads with an Apo, vexilla, maaaaybe something on the Sargent but I'm not sure yet, get them to objectives to gain HOTL and they will be decently tough to shift. 

 

On my Warmonger I was thinking putting him to be in Gorgon armor because he still got a 4+ like the rest of the unit with a Cyber Familiar but that I might be able to get the enemy to fail the blind test from his armor and derp themselves by shooting at me in overwatch, just take a 2+ save from a bolter and try and get it. HOWEVER, I think its probably better and safer to just take the Catiphractii, get the 3+ Inv, he can only take claws or 1 fst so Im going to go with claws because I just finished my 'Gabriel Santar' conversion and am dieing to use him lol He would fit well with Morlocks. 

TH would be great I just dont have any modeled with them yet. I have a box a cataphractii to build and some are getting hammers.....when I get there haha 

Edited January 27 by Ignatius Numen

[Ignatius Numen]

Thank you guys for the thoughts and comments I really appreciate it and it helps a ton!

 

Looking at 2x 15 man tacticals so far bare bones maybe a vexilla, but each with an Apo.

Deredeo Dread

Leviathan 

Snipers probably just 5 man

 

Then the hard stuff:

 

So if I take Morlocks, I get 5x WS5 Terminators, scoring with the banner, lots of goodie options, roughly 400 pts say, fists, banner, vex, cyber familar, 1 CF. To take them I need a MOTL. So a delegatus or a praetor, I figure might as well take a praetor for the points its very similar. Then the Morlocks take an HQ slot so I have to drop either my anti dead/tank moritat, or my deepstrike blocking bs1+ master of signal. That's a tough choice for me...

Then I lose deepstrike because I had to turn my Warmonger into a praetor. So now I need a LR Proteus - 220 pts base, have to drop the Heavy Support Volkite squad for sure and tune the snipers down to a 5 man group.  If I drop the Moritat I can keep the volkite squad I think...

OR

I take the Warmonger in Catiphractii, Cyber Familiar, LC x2 - 165pts

A  man Cataphractii Squad with fists, a LC or 2, a CF, Cyber Familiar, Vexilla - 460 pts

Trim the snipers to 5 men

lose the HS squad

I have like 50-70 pts left.

I could trim it like 1 terminator and maaaybe the odd thing to get the 125pts to leave the HS squad in or take something else meaningful. 

 

I love Morlocks for their WS5 and scoring way over just 8-10 regular catiphractii. Just not sure its worth dropping an HQ in this list but I'm very open to options. 

Thoughts??

 

[Pearson73]

Those guys looks ace, particularly the Santar conversion! I guess you could run Gorgons instead of Morlocks? They take an elite slot instead and you can hope that shooting incurred by their deepstrike will trigger blind on a target worth charging, countering their WS4. A grav gun or two can also help you out with the concussive debuff.

[Razorblade]

5 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

So if I take Morlocks, I get 5x WS5 Terminators, scoring with the banner, lots of goodie options, roughly 400 pts say, fists, banner, vex, cyber familar, 1 CF. To take them I need a MOTL. So a delegatus or a praetor, I figure might as well take a praetor for the points its very similar. 

I would take the delegatus over the praetor, picking up a pinned tactical squad is likely going to be more impactful than the slight increase in offensive capabilities and you get it at a discount. You can also just take them as a separate HQ without character.

 

5 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

 Then the Morlocks take an HQ slot so I have to drop either my anti dead/tank moritat, or my deepstrike blocking bs1+ master of signal. That's a tough choice for me...

Then I lose deepstrike because I had to turn my Warmonger into a praetor. 

The Morlocks don't take up an extra HQ if taken as a Retinue so you'd only have to cut the MoS/Moritat if you intend to DS them.

5 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

I love Morlocks for their WS5 and scoring way over just 8-10 regular catiphractii. Just not sure its worth dropping an HQ in this list but I'm very open to options. 

Thoughts??

 

This basically comes down to how committed you are to deep striking the Terminators, as you essentially have 2 HQs occupied with that. Now you absolutely cannot run a unit this expensive from DS without a MoS, however with only a min-size HSS he doesn't add much to your list after that. 

Ultimately if you have the Model I'd put them in a Raider, but if not I think this List can still do just fine without the Gravitatatat

[Ignatius Numen]

8 hours ago, Pearson73 said:

Those guys looks ace, particularly the Santar conversion! I guess you could run Gorgons instead of Morlocks? They take an elite slot instead and you can hope that shooting incurred by their deepstrike will trigger blind on a target worth charging, countering their WS4. A grav gun or two can also help you out with the concussive debuff.

Thank you! I'm really happy with how Santar turned out. 

So with deep striking the terminators with the warmonger, they each have to have a d6 rolled once they land and any rolls of a 1 they take an invul save or suffer a wound. I would rather have 4+ than a 5+ for that. Quite a downside to gain a deepstrike but oh well. I have a small chance to blind the enemy with Gorgon armor, but honestly I've never been able to get anyone blinded in my games yet haha Grav guns would be nice to get -1WS on the enemy, could take 1 on the Morlocks too as an option.

 

[Ignatius Numen]

7 hours ago, Razorblade said:

I would take the delegatus over the praetor, picking up a pinned tactical squad is likely going to be more impactful than the slight increase in offensive capabilities and you get it at a discount. You can also just take them as a separate HQ without character.

 

The Morlocks don't take up an extra HQ if taken as a Retinue so you'd only have to cut the MoS/Moritat if you intend to DS them.

This basically comes down to how committed you are to deep striking the Terminators, as you essentially have 2 HQs occupied with that. Now you absolutely cannot run a unit this expensive from DS without a MoS, however with only a min-size HSS he doesn't add much to your list after that. 

Ultimately if you have the Model I'd put them in a Raider, but if not I think this List can still do just fine without the Gravitatatat

Ok reading the morlocks again, yes I can just have them as a retinue, perfect. I have 2 LR's so good there and its a 20pt difference taking a delegatus over a praetor....toss up there if I don't have to cut another HQ now. 

 

So I can get a catiphractii praetor w/ claws, Cyber - 165pts

Morlock Retinue 5x guys, Cyber Familiar, Banner, 1x CF, 4x PF - 295pts

LR w/TL Las - 230 pts 

If I go this way with the rest of the list its perfectly 2000pts........thats not a bad setup at all. 

 

If I run a warmonger hes also 165 pts claws and cyber guy

10 catiphractii, vexilla, 1x CF, 8x FP, 1x set of claws - 460 pts 

I'd have 70 pts left....If I shave 15 pts somewhere I can have a base recon squad for another scoring unit, or I cound add some upgrades to the tacticals like a vexilla and maybe 1 squad could have chain bayonets or 2x power weapons for sergeants......options.

 

I am leaning towards the Morlocks because their scoring, a 'more elite' CC unit, and I love LR tanks.

BUT if the deepstrike is pulled off without casualties, it could be a VERY disruptive unit for my opponent, I will probably just hit whatever is the best target when they come in whether that is the HQ squad or some other annoying Elite unit or maybe just a scoring unit to win the mission.... options again haha 

 

Sorry I went on a rant this reply haha

 

 

[Razorblade]

4 hours ago, Ignatius Numen said:

BUT if the deepstrike is pulled off without casualties, it could be a VERY disruptive unit for my opponent, I will probably just hit whatever is the best target when they come in whether that is the HQ squad or some other annoying Elite unit or maybe just a scoring unit to win the mission.... options again haha 

First up don't forget that the morlocks add the "hidden" cost of having to stick with the MoS as you can't put 50pts in DS without rerollable reserve rolls. 

Between their WS and Battlehardened I think 5 Morlocks probably will Command as much attention as the 10 regular guys, but they score and also give your opponent their LR to worry about

[Ignatius Numen]

Thank you everyone for the input on this army list. 
This is what I’m thinking so far:

 

HQ's

145pts - Centurion - Moritat Consul 

2x Grav Pistols

Chainsword

Warhawk Jump Pack 

 

95pts - Centurion - Master of Signals Consul

BP/CS

 

165pts - Legion Praetor in Cataphractii -  Warlord - Silver Iron Will Warlord Trait

Twin Lightning Claws

Cyber Familiar for 4+ Invul

 

295pts - Morlock Terminator Squad - Retinue

Augmentor with Chainfist 

4x Morlock’s all with Power Firsts and Bolters

Legion Standard 

 

235pts Dedicated Transport - Land Raider Proteus 

Twin linked las cannons 
 

ELITES

90pts - Apothecary Detachment

2x Legion Apothecary

 

TROOPS

135pts - Reconnaissance Squad

Sergeant and 4x Recon Marines with Nemesis Bolters

 

150pts - 15x man Tactical Squad - no upgrades

150pts - 15x man Tactical Squad - no upgrades

HEAVY SUPPORT

225pts - Deredeo Dreadnought Talon

Hellfire Plasma Cannonade

Twin Heavy Bolter

Aiolos Missile Launcher

 

315pts - Leviathan Dreadnought Talon

Storm Cannon

Siege Claw

Twin Linked Volkite Calivers

Phosphex Discharger

 

Total: 2000 Pts

 

Only thing bothering me, is if my opponent doesn’t bring a dreadnaught and/or tanks the gravitat is almost useless lol 

Half of me loves the insurance he brings but the other half thinks that’s worth a HSS and a couple upgrades sheesh. 
 

Otherwise Apo runs with tactical for objectives, dreads kill things along with the LR and Morlocks trying to kill/score deeper objectives, snipers snipe heads/pin with the MoS giving night vision, +1bs so the darn snipers ACTUALLY HIT SOMETHING, and shutting down enemy deep strikes. Hopefully the gravitat gets to….grav. 
 

Things I wish I had points for: vexilla and chain bayonets for tacticals. 
More anti infantry killing power like a choom squad. (Hoping the deredo is enough)
Something else with high strength weapons. Can’t think what I would add though. 
(Need to build my lascannon squad one day) 

[Razorblade]

List looks great mostly however the Recons need an augur scanner and what exactly is the MoSs Job (there's no Reserves to reroll and no HSS as far as I can see?)

I wouldn't worry about the moritat doing nothing. Chances are everyone is going to bring at least a Deeadnought and getting off even a single chainfire on one will break his points even.

[Ignatius Numen]

10 hours ago, Razorblade said:

List looks great mostly however the Recons need an augur scanner and what exactly is the MoSs Job (there's no Reserves to reroll and no HSS as far as I can see?)

I wouldn't worry about the moritat doing nothing. Chances are everyone is going to bring at least a Deeadnought and getting off even a single chainfire on one will break his points even.

MoS will go with the snipers, he has an augury scanner and cognus signum which grants night vision to the squad. And I want to use the MoS ability to cause enemy disordered drop on a 1, 2, and 3 because several of my regular opponents like to deep strike. 
Yeah I’m thinking even if there isn’t much to grav at, the moritat can run up with the morlocks and grav the enemy squad, concussive 1 is nice and with 12 shots it should go off.