BA Supplement Speculation

[Blindhamster]

So, based on dark angels, what do we think will happen with blood angels? Now we have a clearer idea of what changed?

 

I think our unique dreads will go as the box dread did and the patter DA seemed to take was to drop things that got dropped from the core codex.

 

feels like our death company will indeed go, but I’m really not sure what the replacement plan will look like, gut feel is they will be handled purely by an upgrade set and come in all three non-gravis intercessor varieties from a rules standpoint. I think they’ll mostly work like current DC intercessors and lose most of the fun options. Maaaybe they’ll get 4th edition treatment and all their attacks will get devastating wounds or lethal hits or something (like when they had rending).
 

sanguinary guard will get a new kit, I think it’ll either become a 4 man squad like company heroes (let’s face it, they should have stats at least as good as those) or it’ll be a 3 man squad. I don’t think they’ll change dramatically rule wise other than that though

 

despite dark angels getting an entirely new unit, I doubt we will see the same. Much as I think that would be cool and interesting to see (I’d love to see a new unit or a new character)

 

our detachments will be the current one, a jump infantry one (focused on movement shenanigans), probably something themed around death company otherwise, not sure how though as the current one covers brutal melee well enough as is. Honestly I’d kind of like them to have all our detachment rules be red thirst, with the difference being the stratagems and enhancements, but I’m not convinced that will be how it works. It’s entirely possible we DONT get three detachments though

 

i think our characters will remain entirely unchanged for Dante and Mephiston. I think we will lose a few though, probably tycho, lemartes and maybe even the generic sanguinary priest (much like the loss of interrogator chaplains)

 

I don’t think we will see plastic updates for all our remaining characters, probably just one.

 

i think the baal predator is safe because predators remain for now

[Goranged]

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

So, based on dark angels, what do we think will happen with blood angels? Now we have a clearer idea of what changed?

 

I think our unique dreads will go as the box dread did and the patter DA seemed to take was to drop things that got dropped from the core codex.

 

feels like our death company will indeed go, but I’m really not sure what the replacement plan will look like, gut feel is they will be handled purely by an upgrade set and come in all three non-gravis intercessor varieties from a rules standpoint. I think they’ll mostly work like current DC intercessors and lose most of the fun options. Maaaybe they’ll get 4th edition treatment and all their attacks will get devastating wounds or lethal hits or something (like when they had rending).
 

sanguinary guard will get a new kit, I think it’ll either become a 4 man squad like company heroes (let’s face it, they should have stats at least as good as those) or it’ll be a 3 man squad. I don’t think they’ll change dramatically rule wise other than that though

 

despite dark angels getting an entirely new unit, I doubt we will see the same. Much as I think that would be cool and interesting to see (I’d love to see a new unit or a new character)

 

our detachments will be the current one, a jump infantry one (focused on movement shenanigans), probably something themed around death company otherwise, not sure how though as the current one covers brutal melee well enough as is. Honestly I’d kind of like them to have all our detachment rules be red thirst, with the difference being the stratagems and enhancements, but I’m not convinced that will be how it works. It’s entirely possible we DONT get three detachments though

 

i think our characters will remain entirely unchanged for Dante and Mephiston. I think we will lose a few though, probably tycho, lemartes and maybe even the generic sanguinary priest (much like the loss of interrogator chaplains)

 

I don’t think we will see plastic updates for all our remaining characters, probably just one.

 

i think the baal predator is safe because predators remain for now

quite inspirational lol, in a nutshell, so after seeing the DA codex ... we are

Edited January 25 by Jolemai
Swear filter dodge

[Blindhamster]

I dunno about that, I think enough nice things will remain that it isn’t too bad, honestly if DC went back to something like the 4th Ed rending approach where all their attacks came with lethal hits or devastating wounds, they’d be alright. They 100% won’t retain the insanity that is every model getting a fist and inferno pistol lol.
 

And if sanguinary guard end up more along the lines of company heroes.. I could get behind 4 wound 2+ save bodyguard for Dante. 

 

Character wise, dark angels got two updates, and already had 2, I imagine we will be similar, my first guess would be sanguinor and astorath because that covers the parallels of Dante and Mephiston visually. I’d like a new corbulo and/or a sanguinary priest but honestly I think apothecaries will get treated as sanguinary priests.

 

losing the dreads.. I never liked that we got librarian dreads but nobody else did, felt weird. The brutalis is already basically a better furioso. Not sure what to think about DC dread.

[Paladin777]

Honestly, tenth has largely been an edition of loss and disappointment, so I’m just trying very hard to not think about it and just enjoy the index for as long as I can, while future-proofing what I make now (other than a few things that I already owned but hadn’t painted).

 

Sorry to be Debbie Downer, but I’m genuinely dreading the codex release.

Edited January 25 by Paladin777

[Karhedron]

Valrak has rumoured that new Sanguinary Guard and a Sanguinary Priest will be coming. I tend to give his rumours credence based on his current track record.

 

I think a large upgrade sprue is probably likely. Perhaps this will contain enough parts to convert Intercessors (of all 3 flavours) into Death Company Intercessors. I strongly expect Firstborn DC with all their juicy weapon options to be retired to Legends.

 

I suspect we will actually retain our unique Dreanoughts, at least for this edition. My reasoning is that DAs have kept their unique Speeders and aircraft which are of similar vintage. The only units that have been retired is where a new kit has come out which no longer has the options to build that version (such as Deathwing Command Squads). So I am cautiously optimistic that Dreads will remain for now. After all, Boxnaughts are still in the latest codex so there is no particular need to get rid of variants.

[Jolemai]

Worthy of it's own topic imo, so new thread created.

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

Valrak has rumoured that new Sanguinary Guard and a Sanguinary Priest will be coming. I tend to give his rumours credence based on his current track record.

 

I think a large upgrade sprue is probably likely. Perhaps this will contain enough parts to convert Intercessors (of all 3 flavours) into Death Company Intercessors. I strongly expect Firstborn DC with all their juicy weapon options to be retired to Legends.

 

I suspect we will actually retain our unique Dreanoughts, at least for this edition. My reasoning is that DAs have kept their unique Speeders and aircraft which are of similar vintage. The only units that have been retired is where a new kit has come out which no longer has the options to build that version (such as Deathwing Command Squads). So I am cautiously optimistic that Dreads will remain for now. After all, Boxnaughts are still in the latest codex so there is no particular need to get rid of variants.

 

Really good point on the dreadnoughts, maybe it won't be so bad!

 

Yeah I'd heard the same rumours about a sanguinary priest, I'm wondering now, if that might actually be Corbulo. Often the rumours valrak gets can be a bit vague and the sources may not know the difference, especially as I've a feeling of our remaining characters to get an update, corbs feels like the one I'd expect to change the most if/when he gets done. (im still convinced our current sanguinary priest model was initially planned to be him).

[ThaneOfTas]

7 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Yeah I'd heard the same rumours about a sanguinary priest, I'm wondering now, if that might actually be Corbulo. Often the rumours valrak gets can be a bit vague and the sources may not know the difference, especially as I've a feeling of our remaining characters to get an update, corbs feels like the one I'd expect to change the most if/when he gets done.

I'm holding out hope that we get a dual purpose kit similar to Lord Invocatus/Chaos Lord on Juggernaut, that can be either Corbulo or a generic Sanguinary Priest.

[Tokugawa]

Unique dreads would survive in this edition. New DC model would look less stylish and decorated, more close to "death company intercessor with jump back", or just straightly be "intercessor with jump pack sprue + upgrade bits".

 

Guessing the epic heroes updates:

BT receive 3, but they just had 3 so all of them updated. In view of GW it is "3", not "all".

DA receive 3. Belial, Asmodai, Azreal(very late 9th release so could also count towards this wave).

So I guess BA going to receive 3. 

[Blindhamster]

3 minutes ago, Tokugawa said:

Unique dreads would survive in this edition. New DC model would look less stylish and decorated, more close to "death company intercessor with jump back", or just straightly be "intercessor with jump pack sprue + upgrade bits".

 

Guessing the epic heroes updates:

BT receive 3, but they just had 3 so all of them updated. In view of GW it is "3", not "all".

DA receive 3. Belial, Asmodai, Azreal(very late 9th release so could also count towards this wave).

So I guess BA going to receive 3. 

 

Dark Angels have 4 primaris plastic characters, you forgot the new dude, so don't think its as simple as "3". They had the two before, and got 2 in the update. Which is why I'm guessing at 2 in the update as well. Technically the DA have the Lion as well. So IMO I don't really think there is a precise pattern to it.

Edited January 25 by Blindhamster

[DemonGSides]

Let tycho die already. Poor guy has been stuck in two worlds for fifteen years. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

12 hours ago, USNCenturion said:

Also, wouldn't it be cool if DC got a rule for mixed armor squads like Deathwatch get? Aggressors, Eradicators, and Incursors fall to the black rage too…

while yea, they do - it wouldn’t make sense in-game or in lore. 

Blood Angels fall to the Black Rage on the eve of battle, when chaplains have the Marines pray and focus on Sanguinius’ sacrifice. It’s done to weed out those who fall before they go rampant in battle and disrupt the battle formations or endanger their brothers.

sooo…if a guy from an aggressor squad would succumb to the black rage, he’d not be given the extra armour plates and wargear that makes out Gravis armour, and likewise for any Phobos armour types. 

Back on topic. 

I don’t partake in the whole model release rumours…I just hope we’re being spared an AoS-style Sanguinor. It’s my opinion that GW can’t do larger-than-marine scale humanoid characters well. 

I’d go so far to say that I’d much rather prefer him being legends instead of a goofy, massive centerpiece model that makes our faction even more gimmicky than the one-shot wonder that DC squads used to be. I mean people can go play UM and DA if they want that kind of goofyness. 
 

From a rules perspective though:

 

- I reckon SoS will stay largely unchanged. We’ll know if anything changes during the dataslate and can go from there, my guess is that GW thinks that SoS is the pinnacle of how BA should be played. 
 

- any footslogging characters should be able to join tacticus armoured infsntry units. Period. 
 

- possibly one detachment could focus on Deepstriking units such as terminators, JP marines and getting those into close combat after setting up. Could also double as a “speed” detachments, granting advance and charge/Boni to charges and advance rolls via strats and enhancements 

- another detachment could focus on transport vehicles and getting out and into close combat. We’ve seen this in the SM codex (I think it’s the salamanders one?) and BA also like to close the distance but then get stuck in.

 

it is my expectation that GDF will stay better suited for BA play style competitively after seeing the DA codex.

[Adorondak]

I personally expect that we'll lose corbulio and the sanguinary priest all together, probably the libby dread as well, dc dread and furioso dreads could just as easily be new paint jobs (ie. A couple of upgrade bits on a sprue) for the brutalus dread so I figure they will stick around. 

 

I also imagine we'll lose both versions of tycho as well. Maybe even lemartes, but maybe not. I figure astoroth and the saguinor both get upgrades, astoroth will go primaris, and as much as I personally hate the idea I figure they'll turn the sanguinor into some kinda primarch sized "greater demon of sanguinius" nonsense.

 

Obviously, SoS will stay exactly the same, but I do believe we'll get a "golden host" detachment that will basically be a boost for anything that deep strikes, and I imagine there will be a death company detachment that includes a death company captain and a death company lieutenant as 2 of the four enhancements but I have no idea what they might make as a detachment rule, unless they were to give all melee weapons equipped by <DEATH COMPANY> units sustained hits 1 or something.

 

What the upgraded sanguinary guard unit might look like rules wise, I haven't the first idea, but I'm hoping they manage to keep their ornate look, I'd hate to see them become golden jump pack assault intercessors with some new weapons, helmets and maybe a new shoulder pad each...

 

Edit: bloody auto correct...

Edited January 29 by Adorondak

[Alternis]

The feeling I’m getting is pretty overall about the new BA codex, so I’ll break this down into subjects. 
 

The Codex Supplement
So following Dark Angels trend we should be getting 2 new detachments as well as the index detachment, naturally I figure the index detachment will probably get some sort of adjustment or nerf 

But I suspect the detachments we might see is 

• A death company themed detachment

• A golden host themed detachment 

• A generalist detachment that will be be loosely themed around jump

infantry in melee 

 

Characters/Units to cross the rubicon

So straight off the bat I have this nagging suspicion Lemartes may get redone, the only characters I can see following into 10th is Sanguinor, Lemartes, Astaroth and Corbulo, as well as naturally Dante & Mephiston.

i think out of all of those Astaroth and Corbulo are low priority, but Lemartes should be hopefully getting a glow up to go into a Death company themed detachment, and if we very lucky, Sanguinor, I’ve heard a number of rumours now about Sanguinor may potentially get a new model from different places/sites and YouTubers. 
When Astaroth does eventually get his glow up I also suspect it might be with his personal entourage of Erelim (think Sanguinary Guard but in black armour) could be a future addition to the Death company range in future? Maybe? 

As for the units, Sanguinary Priest and Sanguinary Guard are right up there with high priority on what’s getting redone from a number of different rumour sources and channels so I’ll be genuinely very shocked if they don’t re-do these two 

so to top that off what I think will be redone this edition. 

• Sanguinor

• Sanguinary Guard

• Sanguinary Priest

• Lemartes

 

 

Upgrade Kits options

Ok so I didn’t cover it in the above section but that’s because it makes more sense to put it here, if we follow GW’s trend with the Deathwing terminators, it falls to reason that death company will now just be upgrade kit options ontop of their associated Intercessor options 

eg

 

Terminator Squad > DA upgrade sprue > Deathwing Terminators

 

following this logic 

 

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs > DC upgrade sprue > Death Company Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs

 

When you look at the current DC Intercessors they are essentially just standard intercessors with a DC upgrade kit, so it should follow the same process then they will

phase out the first born DC units. 
 

So that’s my run down of what I THINK we will see with the BA Supplement.

[Cleon]

1 hour ago, Alternis said:

When Astaroth does eventually get his glow up I also suspect it might be with his personal entourage of Erelim (think Sanguinary Guard but in black armour) could be a future addition to the Death company range in future? Maybe? 

 

 

If re-done Sanguinary guard come with an alternate build for skull helms and mace and shield for Erelim, I will buy all of them.

[Alternis]

10 minutes ago, Cleon said:

 

If re-done Sanguinary guard come with an alternate build for skull helms and mace and shield for Erelim, I will buy all of them.

That’s a good viewpoint, erelim could just be an upgrade kit for Sang guard

[Leonaides]

Honestly, I think a dc detachment would be about as likely as a sang guard detachment (ie: not very). Chances are they'll retire the older firstborn dc kit with the new codex, which would leave us with either primaris dc with packs or without, a dc dreadnought and a couple of chaplains. Unless that detachment gave them an OC value, any bonus would be just as applicable to any other jump pack unit.

 

I think we'll continue to have SoS, a new jump assault detachment and maybe a flesh tearer detachment (non-jump assault). Perhaps we get something close to the day of revelation 5++ save when deep striking, or a shock-and-awe battleshock test with modifier on a unit within 12 of a deep strike squad (which would shut down overwatch if successful)... Additional charge benefit from DS maybe?

[Alternis]

On 1/30/2024 at 4:34 PM, Leonaides said:

Honestly, I think a dc detachment would be about as likely as a sang guard detachment (ie: not very). Chances are they'll retire the older firstborn dc kit with the new codex, which would leave us with either primaris dc with packs or without, a dc dreadnought and a couple of chaplains. Unless that detachment gave them an OC value, any bonus would be just as applicable to any other jump pack unit.

 

I think we'll continue to have SoS, a new jump assault detachment and maybe a flesh tearer detachment (non-jump assault). Perhaps we get something close to the day of revelation 5++ save when deep striking, or a shock-and-awe battleshock test with modifier on a unit within 12 of a deep strike squad (which would shut down overwatch if successful)... Additional charge benefit from DS maybe?

I want to agree with this but you only have to look at the DA detachments to give you a strong idea of what they are going with. 
they won’t give any detachments focused on successor chapters and instead focusing on the different flavours of playstyles within the parent chapter 

 

I.e 

 

base detachment > death wing > raven wing 

 

the Deathwing detachment is heavily terminator based with army structure but the flavour is 100% Deathwing, Ravenwing while its rules affect everyone it’s definitely geared more towards bikes.

 

it makes more sense we would see something DC flavoured, I’m just at a loss of what the 3rd detachment would be but I do agree with you on a jump assault focused detachment is pretty much a given 

Could be the jump assault style detachment might work for the whole army but include a lot of enhancements / stratagems specific to Death Company 

 

the problem is you look at space wolves who have multiple faceted flavours in their army (Wulfen, mounted, dreadnoughts) then DA with Terminators and/or bikes 

 

we get to BA and apart from Jump assault units and DC which are not mutually exclusive of each other makes it difficult to discern a 3rd detachment as the Jump assault detachment and the DC detachment could be one and the same 

 

the only thing that pops to mind is we get a new unit that expands on the golden host and they make it a thing with another jump assault detachment that uses a lot of keywords for units like Sanguinor, Dante, Sanguinary guard, something new 

 

Edited February 17 by Alternis
Expansion of my original reply

[Goranged]

9 hours ago, Alternis said:

I want to agree with this but you only have to look at the DA detachments to give you a strong idea of what they are going with. 
they won’t give any detachments focused on successor chapters and instead focusing on the different flavours of playstyles within the parent chapter 

 

I.e 

 

base detachment > death wing > raven wing 

 

the Deathwing detachment is heavily terminator based with army structure but the flavour is 100% Deathwing, Ravenwing while its rules affect everyone it’s definitely geared more towards bikes.

 

it makes more sense we would see something DC flavoured, I’m just at a loss of what the 3rd detachment would be but I do agree with you on a jump assault focused detachment is pretty much a given 

Could be the jump assault style detachment might work for the whole army but include a lot of enhancements / stratagems specific to Death Company 

 

the problem is you look at space wolves who have multiple faceted flavours in their army (Wulfen, mounted, dreadnoughts) then DA with Terminators and/or bikes 

 

we get to BA and apart from Jump assault units and DC which are not mutually exclusive of each other makes it difficult to discern a 3rd detachment as the Jump assault detachment and the DC detachment could be one and the same 

 

the only thing that pops to mind is we get a new unit that expands on the golden host and they make it a thing with another jump assault detachment that uses a lot of keywords for units like Sanguinor, Dante, Sanguinary guard, something new 

 

 

A fly focused detachment makes sense to me, including better use of aircrafts.

[The Unseen]

Maybe they'll do something like say, a Lucifer Armored Company? That used to be a thing BA did really well, between Rhino Rush, or the old rules that I think were in a White Dwarf with stripped down Land Raiders (AV 13 I believe) who picked up Fast and lorewise were what Tycho used to great effect vs the Orks during the 2nd War for Armageddon.

 

Frankly I'm just hoping they fix the frankly stupidly anemic stratagems and enhancements in the SoS detachment. At least with the recent FAQ buff GW recognizes that it isn't performing. Buffs to combat damage that only trigger when you're the aggressor and absolutely no bonus' to successfully getting into combat, and therefore making use of your bonuses, just doesn't work very well compared to other options.

 

 

[Leonaides]

14 hours ago, Alternis said:

I want to agree with this but you only have to look at the DA detachments to give you a strong idea of what they are going with. 
they won’t give any detachments focused on successor chapters and instead focusing on the different flavours of playstyles within the parent chapter 

 

I.e 

 

base detachment > death wing > raven wing 

 

the Deathwing detachment is heavily terminator based with army structure but the flavour is 100% Deathwing, Ravenwing while its rules affect everyone it’s definitely geared more towards bikes.

 

it makes more sense we would see something DC flavoured, I’m just at a loss of what the 3rd detachment would be but I do agree with you on a jump assault focused detachment is pretty much a given 

Could be the jump assault style detachment might work for the whole army but include a lot of enhancements / stratagems specific to Death Company 

 

the problem is you look at space wolves who have multiple faceted flavours in their army (Wulfen, mounted, dreadnoughts) then DA with Terminators and/or bikes 

 

we get to BA and apart from Jump assault units and DC which are not mutually exclusive of each other makes it difficult to discern a 3rd detachment as the Jump assault detachment and the DC detachment could be one and the same 

 

the only thing that pops to mind is we get a new unit that expands on the golden host and they make it a thing with another jump assault detachment that uses a lot of keywords for units like Sanguinor, Dante, Sanguinary guard, something new 

 

True, perhaps I phrased it badly. The DA only have DA detachments as their successors have never had distinct rules. There will be a jump assault detachment of some kind (and I don't think it will be DC specific, as the bonuses to jump troops would apply to dc as well), a foot-assault/armoured infantry detachment (that would work well with seth on foot and cover flesh tearers, and foot dc). The third detachment- who knows...

[Tokugawa]

DA successors don't have products. Flesh tearers have one Seth model for many years.

[Blindhamster]

thing is.

The Sons of Sanguinius detachment suits flesh tearers really well as its just 100% about hitting harder.

This is the thing, we already have a "hit harder in melee" detachment, which is realistically what a "flesh tearer" or "death company" detachment would be about.

It's entirely possible we DON'T get 3 new detachments, we might get just 2, or even just the 1.

 

If we get any more, one is almost certainly going to deal with jump infantry and making them work better in some way. Outside of that is anyones guess.

[Alternis]

I don’t know if anyone saw Valraks video last week about BA. 
 

the rumours are stirring about BA and seem to be reinforcing what I suspected 

[Alternis]

On 1/29/2024 at 5:06 PM, Alternis said:

The feeling I’m getting is pretty overall about the new BA codex, so I’ll break this down into subjects. 
 

The Codex Supplement
So following Dark Angels trend we should be getting 2 new detachments as well as the index detachment, naturally I figure the index detachment will probably get some sort of adjustment or nerf 

But I suspect the detachments we might see is 

• A death company themed detachment

• A golden host themed detachment 

• A generalist detachment that will be be loosely themed around jump

infantry in melee 

 

Characters/Units to cross the rubicon

So straight off the bat I have this nagging suspicion Lemartes may get redone, the only characters I can see following into 10th is Sanguinor, Lemartes, Astaroth and Corbulo, as well as naturally Dante & Mephiston.

i think out of all of those Astaroth and Corbulo are low priority, but Lemartes should be hopefully getting a glow up to go into a Death company themed detachment, and if we very lucky, Sanguinor, I’ve heard a number of rumours now about Sanguinor may potentially get a new model from different places/sites and YouTubers. 
When Astaroth does eventually get his glow up I also suspect it might be with his personal entourage of Erelim (think Sanguinary Guard but in black armour) could be a future addition to the Death company range in future? Maybe? 

As for the units, Sanguinary Priest and Sanguinary Guard are right up there with high priority on what’s getting redone from a number of different rumour sources and channels so I’ll be genuinely very shocked if they don’t re-do these two 

so to top that off what I think will be redone this edition. 

• Sanguinor

• Sanguinary Guard

• Sanguinary Priest

• Lemartes

 

 

Upgrade Kits options

Ok so I didn’t cover it in the above section but that’s because it makes more sense to put it here, if we follow GW’s trend with the Deathwing terminators, it falls to reason that death company will now just be upgrade kit options ontop of their associated Intercessor options 

eg

 

Terminator Squad > DA upgrade sprue > Deathwing Terminators

 

following this logic 

 

Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs > DC upgrade sprue > Death Company Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs

 

When you look at the current DC Intercessors they are essentially just standard intercessors with a DC upgrade kit, so it should follow the same process then they will

phase out the first born DC units. 
 

So that’s my run down of what I THINK we will see with the BA Supplement.

 Quoting my own post because I touched on many of the rumours that Valrak believes is legit (but as he says rumours are rumours) 

 

But yes it looks like it may end up being a big Death company focus, with Sang guard and Sanguinor 

 

but 0% mention of Sang priest, which concerns me a lot