January 2024 MFM and Dataslate

[TrawlingCleaner]

Wait there's a whole new DE detachment?! 

 

It's actually pretty good?!

[chapter master 454]

Imperial Knights only getting what looks like more akin to reversion of points for the sins of Towering that no longer exist, ok.

Lay Low the Tyrants is now AUTO PICK even harder now but bondsman is still worthless so Imperial Knights will still see no actual success because 50% of our abilities still suck and points drops don't help that.

 

Space Marines actually see overall nerfs, making our weak faction weaker with no real buffs. Inceptors we all saw but Devastator Centurions is purely because of Uriel Ventris and Vanguard Spearhead. Intercessors going down 5 whole points is NOT going to make them appealling GW, you've just make the basic 5 man people take cheaper and likely won't be noticed (and that's for the people that do, most don't bother). I do notice Tacticals didn't go down.

 

Tau getting some...buffs? No-one will take the other commanders GW, and nerf crisis all you like, they are still the best unit and will always take triple cyclic, you failed in balancing them. lol at the riptide going down in points but the Y'Vahra and R'Varna not getting anything.

 

Overall:

Only good thing is Aeldari getting their kneecaps seen to properly and this will likely now get them down from their high horse but other than that this dataslate is a big fat waste of time imo.

Well ok, if you are DRukari I hope those changes and additions give you a better time but personally, this dataslate is so disappointing that the lack of Bondsman reversion for Knights still makes them garbage tier still. And Lay Low the Tyrants getting buffed is just hilarious, because no-one picked Reclaim the Realm anyway! At this point, we need our Bondsman brought back for them to be worth anything so Chaos Knights are still the better knights overall just because they don't have a neutered and completely butchered core mechanic.

Edited January 30 by chapter master 454

[Kastor Krieg]

So Helbrecht and Grimaldus get a 26% (25 pts) more expensive each and the Firstborn Crusader Squad is dead in the water at +40 pts now, barely cheaper from the Primaris variant... But they do not touch the Primaris CS or the Sword Brethren... ?

+ OH NO, WHATEVER SHALL WE DO NOW +

 

Also, who in Nottingham has a hate-on for CSM? Because OOF.

Edited January 30 by Kastor Krieg

[DemonGSides]

The BT heroes were very undercosted. I think 115 would've been better but they were too cheap as was. 

Edited January 30 by DemonGSides

[Kastor Krieg]

Just now, DemonGSides said:

The BT heroes were very undercosted. I think 115 would've been better but they were too cheap as was. 

That's my point. Everyone was like "BT are too strong! Prepare to be nerfed in this dataslate".

LOL.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

The wording on Devastating Wounds has been tidied up but no fix to abilities that allow saves vs MWs to work vs Devastating Wounds. 

 

I think that's now in the abilities that give the saves, rather than in the wording of devastating wounds itself - if you look at the balance dataslate, the custodes ability that does that has its wording changed to work against devastating wounds.  That said, there may be other units with similar abilities that are missed - I don't have a broad enough view of 40K this edition to know if such other unit rules actually exist.

 

As a chaos marine player, the changes seem fine though I'm not certain why they felt the need to change profane zeal to undivided only.  Decreasing the "untargetableness" from Dark Obscuration to only units outside of 18" (rather than 12") seems fair, as it was super good and kind of unfun for the opponent.  The change to only being able to use transports with the same mark as the unit embarking makes sense, I guess, but is annoying as typically transports and their units don't benefit from the same marks (especially for units that are Khorne or Slannesh) and it can really limit what can ride in what.  Feels kind of like a step back to the days when dedicated transports could only transport one particular unit.  As for the various point increases, they all seem to target the outstanding unit, so I have no problem with them it it helps bring some diversity to the tournament scene without hampering the army too much - I suspect that was the goal and we'll have to see whether it worked.

 

Funny that the chaos marines forgefiend got bumped up to 200 points while the world eaters forgefiend went down to 145 - not sure that the rational (if any) for the 55 point difference for what should be virtually identical units.

 

For chaos knights, as mentioned above about imperial knights, it seems like a rewind of the point hikes imposed earlier for the sin of being titanic... which seems fair.  I'll have to play around with my list to see if it makes any difference as to what I can actually fit into a list.

 

For chaos demons, lesser demons decreased slightly in points (demonettes went down 1 point to the still too expensive 11 points), but now need one such unit for every other unit with the same mark, meaning that all demon armies need to spend far more points on arguably useless/overpriced chaff.  While my understanding is that competitive demon armies largely ignore lesser demons (for good reason), I'm not certain why "elite" armies are a problem when they are demons but not for literally any other faction. 

 

The wording around "Counts as a Normal Move" is hilariously and extraordinarily clunky - surely there could have been a better way they could have worded that which isn't so convoluted.

 

I do really like the steps they've taken to make clearer what the new changes are - both the + signs on the Dataslate and the different colours for poitns increases and decreases in the Munitorium pdf - big improvement there.

Edited January 30 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Karhedron]

6 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

I think that's now in the abilities that give the saves, rather than in the wording of devastating wounds itself - if you look at the balance dataslate, the custodes ability that does that has its wording changed to work against devastating wounds.  That said, there may be other units with similar abilities that are missed - I don't have a broad enough view of 40K this edition to know if such other unit rules actually exist.

 

Custodes were the biggest victims of the change for sure but there are others scattered around that don't seem to have been picked up on like the Terminator Chaplain's Recitation of Faith, Contorted Epitome, Watchers in the Dark, Norn Emissary, and quite a few more scattered through various indices. That is why it seemed like it should be fixed in the core rules (or at least the Designer's Commentary) rather than on a case-by-case basis.

[Kharn13]

Not sure why WE got hit so hard. They could have just fixed Berserker Glaive and nudged Angron slightly up in points to give other units the opportunity to be picked. Back to dreading facing Custodes!

 

The app update on the other hand is very nice! Favourite certain rules and army rules in the battleforge.

Edited January 30 by Kharn13

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

It is times like this I wish I played enough games of 40k for this too matter. I've had one game this year so far and probably won't get another one until March. 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

Yikes, how come Drukhari were doing so badly? Hope the tweaks make things better for you guys.

[Kaiju Soze]

36 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

Funny that the chaos marines forgefiend got bumped up to 200 points while the world eaters forgefiend went down to 145 - not sure that the rational (if any) for the 55 point difference for what should be virtually identical units.

 

I'm guessing the WE versIon is cheaper because it doesn't get Sustained on 5+ or easy access to Devastating Wounds generating re-rolls.

[Karhedron]

6 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Yikes, how come Drukhari were doing so badly? Hope the tweaks make things better for you guys.

 

Because their faction bonus is a "win more" mechanic in that you actually have to be doing meaningful damage to the enemy in the first place to generate a useful number of pain tokens. They needed a boost to be dangerous enough for the PFP mechanic to actually kick in. I will reserve judgement to see if it is enough to get them to the 45% threshold. My gut feeling is they will still be bottom tier but just inside the 45% winrate margin.

[Holier Than Thou]

2 hours ago, librisrouge said:

Grey Knights changes feel weird. Slightly improved Nemesis Dreadknights but then more expensive Librarians and no actual fixes to the problems...

Yep, still only once per battle for the Grandmaster stratagem ability while the Space Marine Captain can do it every round.

[Nova-V]

Seems that the Index cards have also had Errata as they have all been updated to 30/01/2024.  Seems to range from the minor, Rattling Snipers now have the Rattling keyword, to the more fundamental, AoI armies can now skip the detachment step so can be fielded legally on their own.  It doesn't seem to have been mentioned on the main page.

Edited January 30 by Nova-V

[Guest Triszin]

FYI some hidden updates in indexes.

 

Wulfen now are d2 hammers, but only str 6

[Karhedron]

11 minutes ago, Triszin said:

FYI some hidden updates in indexes.

 

Now I have to go combing through to see what else they have hidden. Marginally annoying as I have just splashed out on the Index cards. 

[Kaiju Soze]

5 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Now I have to go combing through to see what else they have hidden. Marginally annoying as I have just splashed out on the Index cards. 

If you have the app, there's a by-faction list of index card errata under Key Documents.  Doesn't specify when the errate was introduced but does contain the above mentioned change to the Wulfen Hammer.

[Spurspinter1]

Does anyone know where the update is on Chaos Daemons as allies in a knights army is?

 

The screenshot if its worked suggests I can only have as many Tzeench units as I have Tzeench battleline units. And obviously I don't think there's any such Tzeench or or chaos gods battleline units available to knights so have they just made all Daemons ineligible for chaos knights lists?

 

I honestly didn't think they would do that mid edition, from one to the next yeah sure, but in a dataslate? I have two units of nurglings, 1 blood hounds and a changeling and if they're suddenly no good, as dramatic as it is I will be here by declaring no more money to GW as that's super dark in terms of selling tactics.

[Indy Techwisp]

4 minutes ago, Spurspinter1 said:

Does anyone know where the update is on Chaos Daemons as allies in a knights army is?

 

The screenshot if its worked suggests I can only have as many Tzeench units as I have Tzeench battleline units. And obviously I don't think there's any such Tzeench or or chaos gods battleline units available to knights so have they just made all Daemons ineligible for chaos knights lists?

 

I honestly didn't think they would do that mid edition, from one to the next yeah sure, but in a dataslate? I have two units of nurglings, 1 blood hounds and a changeling and if they're suddenly no good, as dramatic as it is I will be here by declaring no more money to GW as that's super dark in terms of selling tactics.

 

I think you need to ally in the Battle line.

I.e. for Tzeentch you need a Unit of Horrors (Pink or Blue) before you can a unit of Flamers.

 

 

As for where the change is, it's in the "Daemonic Pacts" rule change.

This is in the Daemons index or the Balance Dataslate section.

Edited January 30 by Indy Techwisp
Where the change is located

[Redsun]

Poor accursed cultists got a triple nerf. Regen only in your command phase, all OC 1 and a points increase. Oof

[DemonGSides]

Yeah use the allies section, it works fine. Just no more free changeling without attending horrors. Which feels fair. 

 

Edit: Working as Intended;

 

Edited January 30 by DemonGSides

[Indy Techwisp]

Just now, DemonGSides said:

Yeah use the allies section, it works fine. Just no more free changeling without attending horrors. Which feels fair. 

 

Also, since someone else earlier made the mistake, this is only for Daemonic Pacts.

If your actual army is Daemons this rule doesn't apply to you.

[DemonGSides]

Death Guard going up in points for Plague Marines is pretty funny. GW wants us to use our legion marines, but not TOO much. 

[Spurspinter1]

18 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Yeah use the allies section, it works fine. Just no more free changeling without attending horrors. Which feels fair. 

 

Edit: Working as Intended;

 

 

If "fair" means selling more models at any cost then sure.

 

It wasn't a free changeling, it cost real life money and in game points, and now to be able to field it I need to buy more models that I don't particularly want?  Then next edition there'll be no deamon allies so I'll have even more models to gather dust or to give in and start collecting daemons..

 

Thanks to the posters pointing me in the direction of the rules and I don't mean to be arsy with you, it's just insane these kind of changes are considered normal / fair . You can get a chess set for a fiver which is a better game and it's unsurprisingly more balanced, whereas this hobby just bleeds you dry. Yes I know how bitter I sound! 

 

Edit - And I need blood letters to be able to field my flesh hounds, utterly ridiculous. House rules here we come I guess as I'm not buying a load of crap old models that I don't have any desire for.

Edited January 30 by Spurspinter1
Adding on more moaning!

[MysticTemplar]

8 minutes ago, Spurspinter1 said:

 

If "fair" means selling more models at any cost then sure.

 

It wasn't a free changeling, it cost real life money and in game points, and now to be able to field it I need to buy more models that I don't particularly want?  Then next edition there'll be no deamon allies so I'll have even more models to gather dust or to give in and start collecting daemons..

 

Thanks to the posters pointing me in the direction of the rules and I don't mean to be arsy with you, it's just insane these kind of changes are considered normal / fair . You can get a chess set for a fiver which is a better game and it's unsurprisingly more balanced, whereas this hobby just bleeds you dry. Yes I know how bitter I sound! 

 

Edit - And I need blood letters to be able to field my flesh hounds, utterly ridiculous. House rules here we come I guess as I'm not buying a load of crap old models that I don't have any desire for.

From a game design perspective, it's to stop other Chaos armies from just being whatever they're doing + the best Daemon models, I suspect.  Plus, restricting Daemon allies more means that the Daemons can be better for a pure Daemon list.