Well, we got some nerfs. Should we do pseudo-knights?

[Sambojin]

Just as a change of meta, this would be silly to run. I might have to TTS it, to see shifts of power after our nerfs.

 

 

 

Not Magic Knights (1995 points)

Chaos Space Marines
Strike Force (2000 points)
Slaves to Darkness


CHARACTERS

3x Daemon Prince with Wings (195/585 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: CU/ Slaanesh/ Khorne
  • 1x Warlord
  • 3x Hellforged weapons
    3x Infernal cannons

Honestly, just more deepstrike knights. I bet actual Knight players wish they got this. With occasionally funny strategems. Also, they can melt stuff like Vortex Beasts do after a charge, when they need to. So lots is good. If you do manage a multi-charge, it's a lot of auto MWs.

 

BATTLELINE
4x Cultist Mob (55/220 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
  • 1x Cultist Champion
      7x Cultist firearm
      1x Cultist grenade launcher
      1x Flamer
      1x Heavy stubber

Need them for the Nurglings, need them for the sticky objectives, need them to make an actual tactical army out of this. See above, on Knights wishing they had it so good.

It's also nice in how much home objective screening save you from Grey Knights/ Inceptors, or how much stickys you can have forward. For the price of a Venomcrawler, you win!

Could also chuck Tzeentch on one of them, for good measure.

 
OTHER DATASHEETS
2xPredator Annihilator (130/260 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
  • 1x Armoured tracks
    1x Combi-bolter
    1x Havoc launcher
    2x Lascannon
    1x Predator twin lascannon

It's nice to have lascannons. Especially ones that ping off extra shots sometimes. Also a surprising amount of anti-infantry work done too. Very light knights.


3xForgefiend (200/600 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: 1xCU, 2xNurgle
  • 1x Armoured limbs
    3x Ectoplasma cannon

200pts/per is still good. One mister reliable, two mister "how many shots?". Your everything-compatible death choice, always.

 
2x Venomcrawler (120/240 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
  • 2x Excruciator cannon
    1x Soulflayer tendrils and claws

Sorta just a light/cheap "knight". Tzeentch keeps them punching above their weight, and 12" movement helps them Champ-in, in other ways. You can just go 6+ sustained, if it's a true horde you're facing. It's not like you can't just pact for melee with anything on the list either, depending on what you're doing.

ALLIED UNITS
2x Nurglings (40/80 points)

  • 3x Nurgling Swarm
    • 3x Diseased claws and teeth

We *do* have deepstriking, infiltrating troops, even at +5pts. Cultists cover the nurgle impost. Nice. Nurglings are never bad at stuff. Could almost drop a Cultists mob for another, while still Nurgling at 3.
 

 

 

Well, it's still doable. And I think it'd be pretty fun. It's only a 70pt loss from the last dataslate, so that should be fine.

 

((Note: I'm not saying this is a good army. Just trying to show how far CSM can skew if it needs to, around most things))

 

(Oh, and Chaos Demons got a big glow-up, so there's heaps of random options. A bit cheaper than normal)

Edited February 1 by Sambojin

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

The daemon buffs dont really help CSM because of the stupid battleline requirement.  You get hit by a 100+ point tax if you want to take anything good.  These changes really suck for CSM mostly because they just kill a lot of the fun aspects of the army.  Points adjustments would have been enough.

[Sambojin]

It's even funnier in the app for TSons. Apparently they missed a keyword, so Rubrics don't count as Tzeentch battleline, so any list with Daemon allies gets flagged as "you don't have the minimum blah....".

 

There is all kinds of marks. It's usually a 55pt impost for Cultists, but I guess you could use Legions too. it'd have to be pretty specific with a list built around them for that though.

 

Sorta dying to fit Harkon in this list somewhere, for reploying infantry, should you not just backfield the Cultists. It'd only cost another Venomcrawler, for +1 Harkon and +1 Nurglings. Hmmmm.

Edited February 1 by Sambojin

[Fuggorf]

I think you're misreading the rule. 

 

Cultists,  legionaries and thousand sons units are irrelevant.

 

You need a Daemons BATTLELINE for each Daemons non-BATTLELINE you include.

 

Nurglings are BATTLELINE and so you can ally them in no problem. But you'd need a unit of Nurglings before you could add a GUO for example

[Sambojin]

Yeah, I totally did. Hmmmm, that really messes up TSons, but is a little irrelevant to CSM that just want to pop down some Nurglings (since they're battleline anyway).

 

What a strange rule.

[Indy Techwisp]

18 hours ago, Sambojin said:

Yeah, I totally did. Hmmmm, that really messes up TSons, but is a little irrelevant to CSM that just want to pop down some Nurglings (since they're battleline anyway).

 

What a strange rule.

 

To quote someone from Reddit quoting Warhammer from Facebook:

"This change was made in order to allow for better balancing of the Chaos factions."

 

I'd personally assume this was done as it's kinda hard to see how well, say, CSM are doing if your top tourney players are winning games by spamming souped-in Greater Daemons.

 

For TSons specifically, yeah it sucks that we can't just chuck in The Changeling for practically free anymore, but considering how expensive Rubrics are as our main Battleline (and how Tzaangors are so bad the literal "ported straight from CSM in 9th" Cultists are superior to them), needing to bring in what is essentially a cheaper Battleline alongside The Changeling is actually a boon in some ways.

[Sambojin]

Yeah, it does hurt those lists that just wanted a unit or two of flamers though. A stealth nerf, especially to TSons who don't have a lot of unit roles, but no biggy. I'm even vaguely wondering if a unit of Blue Horrors is that bad of a thing. Compared to Nurglings, yes. Actually, compared to most things, they are. Oh well. If only they got the Thousand Sons keyword in a Thousand Sons List (psychic shooting counts for a lot).

 

I hope it goes pretty well for actual Daemon players though. They can have good units now, without external problems from every other chaos list grabbing their good stuff.

 

 

[Sambojin]

Well, still theoretical, or Virtual TT, but here's an updated list. It's not Jim, as we know it....

 

 

 

Not Magic Knights (1995 points)

Chaos Space Marines
Strike Force (2000 points)
Slaves to Darkness


CHARACTERS

Heretic Astartes Daemon Prince with Wings (195 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: Chaos Undivided
  • Warlord

All the Princes below also get 1/2W's worth of mortal wounds on charges. Before combat! It's good to stack these options. They also all Deepstrike, in case that becomes a thing. This is just your "mister reliable" on pacting, and shows it's a "fluffy" army. Lol.

(Yes, another Slaneeshi one would be "better", but hey, take the rerolls. You'll be fine)

 

Heretic Astartes Daemon Prince with Wings (215 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: Khorne
  • Enhancement: Talisman of Burning Blood

Kinda gets nearly decent Strength and attacks on a charge with Khorne. A rather melee'y list, in its own way. Rapid Ingress does become a thing, to sort locked-out non-movement firepower duels. Splat 5 wounds, do the other 5-10 or so in combat. Surprisingly strategic and tactical as a unit.

 
Heretic Astartes Daemon Prince with Wings (210 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: Slaanesh
  • Enhancement: Intoxicating Elixir

5+FNP. And lethals and +2 movement. It does come up. Tankier, and hits other things. But usually hits them alongside another Prince.


BATTLELINE

3x 10 Cultist Mob (165 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: 2xTzeentch, 1 Nurgle
    • 10x Close combat weap
      7x Cultist firearm
      1x Grenade Launcher
      1x Flamer
      1x Heavy stubber

(Something like that. Crappy lasguns and special weapons)

Do screening vs World Eaters or anything super-fast. Do sticky objectives on turn 2-3. Do all kinds of weird stuff. 5+ lethal hits punch up a bit, but so do sustained. Knights with useful cheap infantry!

 
OTHER DATASHEETS

3x Chaos Predator Annihilators (390 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: 3x Nurgle

Combi-bolters, lascannon sponsons, havoc launchers. How many lascannons do you have? x9-12'ish S12-14 ones given the 5+'s. And a bit of anti infantry to boot.


3x Forgefiends (600 points)
  • Mark of Chaos: 1xCUnd, 2xNurgs
  • 3x Ecto Cannons

Two sustained hits on pact types ones, one "safe" one (note: not that safe for others). Still lots of damage at 200pts for each. Hazard away!


ALLIED UNITS

2x Nurglings (80 points)

Deepstrike, infiltrate, cheap. Why shouldn't you? Battleline, so no problems with the recent daemon thingy.

War Dog Karnivore (140 points)
  • 1x Havoc Multilauncher
    1x Reaper chaintalon
    1x Slaughterclaw

Why not have some indirect? Oh, and some fast lascannon melee, so your list has that too. In case melty Daemon Prince charges are too slow. Tank Shock strat? It's not like we've got grenades.
 

 

 

It's marginally better than before. Yay!

If you don't have strike's first or anti-tank or a horde, it's a mulching. But sometimes, even if you do, it's a mulching. It's nice like that. It does do shooting too. It doesn't do proper OC or taking points heavily. But it's sometimes funny that it can cosplay on all three, and even daemon break-tests (we all know they don't exist. Lol)?

There's a lot of stuff it's not great at, but you know, that'll be a topic or thought for later.

Pew Pew Pew , slash, strike, Kaboom!

It does some stuff well. Like, better than you'd think with low OC.

 

((I'll eventually work out a way to add Huron into the list. Because there's nothing worse than re-deployable infantry in a pseudo-knights list to fight against.

Ok, done. Drop the Wardog, and add Huron and another splat of Tzeentch Cultists to the list. Could kit them for whatever (Khorne? Slaanesh? Whatever), considering one's a fake and will go to strat reserves, just to mess with your opponent even more. Feels good, being correct in every deployment in every match is nice to feel. WE? SM? Space Elves? Weeboos? Doesn't matter, this happens after you find out their ideas. And how they deploy their troops.

 

The first four units you'll deploy every game are Cultists. That can be redeployed because of Huron, other than one real one. The rest of your army comes after that. Yes, that's worth a fast melee Wardog level of "f'ing with your opponent's movement/ deployment" in an already pretend wardoggy build. Each and every single game. At worst, there's 30OC of bullet sponges strung out on your front-line and one on your home-objective. Then you try and find out if a SM player actually can shoot out 30-40 wounds and OC30-40, on your home objective with plasma or bolters. Having to fire at three-four different units really skews the maths, while you kill all their other things.

 

But yeah, 4x Cultists, 2x Predators, 1x Forgefiend, and one Prince, and then Huron somewhere in the backfield should be good for a laugh on "lazy deployment" step 9-10, still knowing you've still got all the rest, they've just seen what you did, and they've barely fallen to it yet. But Huron's here))

 

While Chaos Knights have slightly tougher units with more OC, I bet they wish they had the absolute grab-basket of random stuff CSM can do with their list.

Edited February 19 by Sambojin