Apparently, I'm Doing the Primaris Thing

[Brother Christopher]

Enough talk ;) It's time to move to something more concrete. Today I've made my first attempts at painting my non-Black Space Marines. It's been pretty fun, I must say. And the results are somewhat promising. I wanted to focus on practising painting purple. Here are some photos:

 

 

For the left-hand side of the model (as viewed in the photo), I attempted at creating a bit of a gradient. I suppose that for my first attempt at such a thing, the result is okay. I think it's better visible on the photo below:

 

 

It probably could use some additional work, especially the lightest part on the lower leg is somewhat rough but I think I've gotten a general feel of doing this.

 

For the right-hand side of the model, I went for a more basic approach with a splash of lighter purple to add a sense of more detail and 2-3 layers of edge highlighting.

 

 

Unfortunately, one of the paints I got (Emperor's Children) that I intended to use for the final layer of highligting is a bit too bright and pink, I suppose. See the edge right above the foot in the photo below:

 

 

However, when watered down the pinkness is slightly dumbed down and this, I suppose, does the trick pretty well (I used it on the top part of the knee pad). Right now, Emperor's Children appears to be a bit too strong/saturated and I kinda feel that I probably shouldn't have bought it. On the other hand, it adds a lot of contrast and maybe I could make it work on the better-defined edges of the Parimaris sculpts, with an extremely fine line. I'll need to see the model in daylight, though, to pass any final judgements.

 

So, for my first attempt - I'll give myself a passing grade. I think I'll stick with the simpler technique for rank and file models and maybe try the gradient for sergeants and other 'character' models. Most certainly, I'd need to refine it but I'm not sure if I like the result which makes the armour look a bit too metallic-y and too fancy.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I like how the lower left leg came out, colour-wise.  As you say, Emperor's Children is a bit much for the highlight colour (unless you were going for a "synthwave" army )

 

This might be a bit of a dumb question, but have you considered mixing in an ivory colour to the base colour?

Edited February 16 by Firedrake Cordova

[Brother Christopher]

3 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

This might be a bit of a dumb question, but have you considered mixing in an ivory colour to the base colour?

 

No, I haven't, at least not until now. I'll give it a go during my next painting session.

 

It's a bit silly but this side project makes me feel giddy. I think this is a honeymoon stage of the relationship with non-black power armour. The experimentation is quite exciting, even though these test miniatures are probably a waste of time (especially since I've got around 50 of my 'proper marines' to finish).

 

Having said that, I think I'll try to recreate the modern 'eavy metal style, provided that I have the skills (which I probably don't, at east not within the self-imposed time limit). I don't know why, but I find their 'clean' approach particularly appealing. Don't get me wrong, I'm also loving what people here do (I'm saying 'here' because I rarely see works of people elsewhere online), with NMM power armour or the gritty-grimy styles or other 'modern' things that I don't have the vocabulary to name. I love how some of the minis look, especially done with an airbrush. But I don't feel those things and, as such, don't see my army done like that.

 

Unless my experiments prove otherwise, currently I'll be aiming at an 'eavy metal-esque style with perhaps more battle damage and perhaps some dirt.

[Firedrake Cordova]

The 'Eavy Metal painting style is quite attractive - it certainly creates a very "readable" model, although from a "realism" perspective it doesn't make much sense. If you want an eye-opening demonstration of how they paint marines, have a look at Infernal Brush's - they're a former Eavy Metal painter, and have a few videos, e.g. this one on Ultramarines (spoiler: they create "volumes" with glazes, and then edge-highlight to create sharp definition).

 

55 minutes ago, Brother Christopher said:

No, I haven't, at least not until now. I'll give it a go during my next painting session.

It's what Angel Giraldez normally recommends - adding yellow to increase the value without losing saturation.

[Brother Christopher]

I'm impressed by how much advice and guidance you're giving me. You're like a wise old hermit who knows about the art of painting miniatures.

 

I sincerely mean it. Many thanks to you and all the other members of this wonderful community. I feel you're summarising a very broad body of knowledge and how-to in a customised way that just might meet my needs. Based on your advice, as well as the resources you recommend, I now have a way better understanding of how to work with colours, paints in my search for how I want to paint my miniatures.

[Firedrake Cordova]

I'm glad it's been of help  

[Brother Argent]

Thats what people here do mate.  Why its always an awesome community.  As an aside if you find the colour is separating too much with your layers or is possibly too bright I sometimes find a glaze of a purple similar in colour to your darker tones can help.  Or if you are sticking with GW colours hit it with a Leviathan Purple wash.

 

Guys like @Firedrake Cordova have a much more technical knowledge of these things then me.  I've just developed a rough slap dash method over years of cutting corners so listen to these guys more then me.  I am loving that purple @Brother Christopher .  Purple is my personal favourite colour and its good to see it done so well.  I imagine it will translate better with the crisp lines of Primaris marines.  I am looking forward to what you come up with.

[LameBeard]

Catching up with this thread. My reactions:

1) The white legs on the first test mode look great, you don’t have anything to fear from white.

2) Purple looking great too - and purple and white look great together. Consider green for the eye lenses.

3) I feel you can get a lot of variety mixing in helmets and shoulder pads from older ranges. It really isn’t worth converting backpacks, I don’t think. Even chest eagles could be a lot of work. You’re just gonna have to learn to love the weird knee and neck rims if you’re joining the Primaris world!

[Brother Christopher]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:46 PM, Brother Argent said:

Purple is my personal favourite colour and its good to see it done so well.

 

This made my day and even further reassured me that I'm going in the right direction. Thanks!

 

13 hours ago, LameBeard said:

Catching up with this thread. My reactions:

1) The white legs on the first test mode look great, you don’t have anything to fear from white.

2) Purple looking great too - and purple and white look great together. Consider green for the eye lenses.

 

Thank you, I appreciate this. And thank you for the suggestion about the lenses' colour; I haven't gone that far in my plans but green should definitely work.

 

13 hours ago, LameBeard said:

3) I feel you can get a lot of variety mixing in helmets and shoulder pads from older ranges. It really isn’t worth converting backpacks, I don’t think. Even chest eagles could be a lot of work. You’re just gonna have to learn to love the weird knee and neck rims if you’re joining the Primaris world!

 

And thank you for the words of caution. I suppose that your suggestion is the reasonable thing to do, especially time-wise. However, the dreamer in me wants to take conversions a bit further and try some modifications to the lower legs, knees and torsos. I honestly don't know whether I'll have enough determination to go through with this on more than, say, five models. But I definitely will want to give it a try. Unfortunately, I think that my favourite 'rectangular-ish' knee pads, like on Mk IV, will pose the biggest problem.

 

***

In other news, I think I have a formula for my purple. The result is more-or-less similar to the previous test model but I've taken notes of the process and should be able to consistently recreate it. The major difference is probably in the last stage of edge highlighting, using a mix (alien) purple (Army Painter) and white instead of the pinkish 'Emperor's Children' paint.

 

Note: I only 'finished' the legs, though; the upper body is only base-coated.

 

 

 

For the actual models, I'll be aiming at a thinner edge highlight an will try to hit more edges than in the photo. I wanted to get the colours right here and didn't feel like doing the full model. Also, the actual models will require a layer of matte or satin varnish or I'll have to change my wash for the recesses. I'm using Army Painter's Dark Tone (that I like a lot) but it leaves a glossy finish.

 

All things considered, I feel I'm ready to start the actual Primaris ProjectTM. I just have to wait for the models to arrive.

Edited February 18 by Brother Christopher

[Firedrake Cordova]

I do really like that purple

[LameBeard]

Don’t let your dreams be dreams! Ignore me and take the knife and putty to those knee-pads!

[Guiltysparc]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:40 AM, Brother Christopher said:

I'm impressed by how much advice and guidance you're giving me. You're like a wise old hermit who knows about the art of painting miniatures.

 

I sincerely mean it. Many thanks to you and all the other members of this wonderful community. I feel you're summarising a very broad body of knowledge and how-to in a customised way that just might meet my needs. Based on your advice, as well as the resources you recommend, I now have a way better understanding of how to work with colours, paints in my search for how I want to paint my miniatures.

 

Firedrake is awesome, he helped me out a ton with Angron.

[Brother Christopher]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:56 PM, LameBeard said:

Don’t let your dreams be dreams! Ignore me and take the knife and putty to those knee-pads!

 

I'll definitely give it a go, at least on one model. Then, I'll probably realise how much time it takes and concede with the regular sculpts. But, yeah, the plans are there ;)

 

While I wait for green stuff to cure in my other project, I decided to do some more tests. This time, I used a reclaimed Mk IV Marine and worked on a model that's not on a sprue. I managed to paint one leg and tried to add more gradient/shining, similarly to one of the first attempts, but - dare I say - the execution is slightly better.

 

 

 

 

I think that the most tricky part is finding the right places for the lighter parts, highlights and shadows. While I've always understood the basic concept, i.e. to find a (imaginary) source of light and stick to how shadows and highlights are on an actual model the execution always eluded me and I think keeps eluding.

 

What I wanted to do here is imagine that the light source is directly above the model so that there are lights and shadows on the front and back. Hence, theoretically, the darkest parts of the leg should be on the inside, as well as on the middle section of the shin guard (since the leg is a bit to the back), while the side of the shin guard to the outside should get the most light. However, I'm not sure about the 'shiny gradient:' the position is probably more-or-less okay, but I think I might've missed the angle.

 

Still, I think I'll be going in this direction.

 

Also, I'm quite persistant with trying to find an application for the Emperor's Children paint and, dare I say, I might've found it. The most extreme edge highlights use a mix of Emperor's Children with white and are looking quite okay. I think they should be slightly thinner, though, but the colour seems to work way better than in my previous attempts.

 

[ZeroWolf]

Looking sharp as a slice of lemon jabbed into someone's eye  

 

I love the gradient you got going on there.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Looking good  

 

9 hours ago, Brother Christopher said:

I think that the most tricky part is finding the right places for the lighter parts, highlights and shadows.

Have you considered using the zenithal priming method on a model to help illustrate where the light would land?

[Brother Christopher]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:59 AM, Firedrake Cordova said:

Have you considered using the zenithal priming method on a model to help illustrate where the light would land?

 

After you mentioned this, I experimented a bit more. I'm currently leaning towards trying to go with a model that's 'realistically highlighted' (although, I'm not sure I'll be able to competently pull it off).

 

I think I'll start working on models by placing two light sources (one from the front and one from the back) and taking a couple of photos of the model, from different angles. The photos should be enough to show mark which parts of the armour should be darker, which lighter and which edges catch the most light for the fine highlighting.

 

I suppose that this should also make painting the model more engaging and fun. On the downside, the model will probably look 'good' only from a specific angle. As I understand, the 'eavy metal style of painting results in more 'flat' lighting but more striking models, with all edges highlighted, regardless of the viewing angle. This is also what I (used to) do with my Templars. While I like the style, I'm really trying to feel frisky and try something else, with more blending or what-not.

 

The bottom line is this: there's a big problem with me not knowing what I want. That's also why I've started prepping for the project weeks in advance.

 

Speaking of not knowing what I want, there's the issue of the models' utility. I'm doing my best to convince myself that I have my Templars for the main 40k and should treat these as a conversion project first and foremost, with the potential of using the models in Kill Team. However, my heart is with 40k-proper or the ideal of playing it someday.

 

It's silly how big of a mental barrier it is for me to build models I'd like (e.g. a Primaris with a sword and Storm Shield who is not a Bladeguard Veteran or a single Jump Pack marine) without thinking about squads of 5 that are useful in a game. It doesn't help either that there are no rules for Inferno Marines or Terminators in Kill Team.

[Firedrake Cordova]

The 'Eavy Metal team are sneaky ... they don't quite paint the models with "flat" lighting - they establish some volumes with glazes, and then edge highlight everything to ensure the model is "readable". The Infernal Brush on YouTube is an ex-Eavy Metal painter - it's quite instructional to see how they paint a Space Marine.  

 

On the models, I'd say build and paint the models you like, because GW could change the rules, but there again I have the luxury of preferring skirmish-scale narrative-driven games where that's a much easier approach to take.  

 

 

[Brother Christopher]

I've already watched his channel, after you recommended it, and dumbed down his process to the tools and skills I have available and incorporated it into my 'recipe.'

 

Once again, I currently refrain to painting one leg of the test models (due to time restraints).

 

This is the newest version:

 

The thing I'm not sure about is this 'reflection:'

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

And this is compared to the last one:

 

I think that the newer one (model on the blackish base) is somewhat more striking. Maybe the reason for that is that I dry-brushed some metallics on the primer and later painted on the purple.

 

And the other paint style, that I'd perhaps aspire to, is something similar to a photo I've found online. Needless to say, the photo of the model in the spoiler tag below is not mine:

Spoiler

 

However, it appears to have a somewhat achievable 'painted-on highlight' (i.e. reflection of light) that I'm considering.

[Firedrake Cordova]

Ah, I forgot I'd previously recommended The Infernal Brush to you  

 

I think your latest attempt at the lower leg looks great.

 

The photo you found online looks very striking! I wonder if it's possible to get a similar effect with a metallic base coat, followed by a purple Contrast/ink glaze..?

Edited February 27 by Firedrake Cordova

[Brother Argent]

Dude. That last purple is amazing mate. I’m envious of that level of skill. Keep up the good work.

[Brother Christopher]

On 3/1/2024 at 9:41 AM, Brother Argent said:

Dude. That last purple is amazing mate. I’m envious of that level of skill. Keep up the good work.

 

Thank you, that's very generous and kind. Unless you've meant the property finished marine in the spoiler tag - that's someone else's work ;)

 

***

So, things change and there's progress. Last week I received the Leviathan Box I won here and now am more and more excited to get things properly going. Buuuuuuut... I'm managing my excitement and really want to finish assembling my squat Marines first. It turns out that the Leviathan kit and me wanting to start playing with the new, shiny toy is a great source of motivation for rushing the old, long-overdue project.

 

I want to stress that this project wouldn't have started without this amazing forum and @Triszin who generously bankrolled something I personally really wanted but ideologically and financially actively strived not to do: get some larger, modern Space Marines. Now I can enjoy new hobby avenues without directly supporting GW, which is a win-win for me!

 

Admittedly, after inspecting the contents of the box... I've started feeling doubts. Doubts about my hobby plans; the kits are cool (despite the absurd, ridiculous and questionable way miniatures are split into parts) and I'm a bit concerned that my conversion will 'ruin' the models. It seems that Primaris models should be pretty easy to paint with larger and generally well-defined details and fiddling with the models by cutting, filing and using putties will negatively affect the painting experience.

 

Also, I'm worried that I'll fall into the same bad habits of wasting too much time on conversions. It's something I like a lot but it's also fairly time-consuming: I think that I'm an extremely slow and hesitant conversion maker.

 

However, with all that said, the alternative is having vanilla Primaris Marines - something that's not particularly appealing. Sure, the prep and painting should be more streamlined and enjoyable but I'm not sure I want to have ~30 nearly identical marines for a project that's supposed to be a small, self-contained hobby project (hobby project understood as a pretext to assemble, convert (?) and paint models with a models-first approach, without much concern for the game(s) the models can be used in). With this alternative, I think I'll try to go with trying to customise the models at the expense of the quality of details and ensuing paintjob. I'll probably make a final decision after I process the first couple of models.

 

***

There is a very reassuring part to all of this planning. It seems, I think, that I've learnt something in the past and am quite cautious with the scope of the project. Firstly, I am determined to keep the model count limited, at least until I get the majority of the mode models painted. Admittedly, this isn't easy since I am still prone to excessive buying. Luckily, for the time being, I have enough self-awareness and restraint not to fall into the old habits.

 

Secondly, I am able to revisit my plans and adjust accordingly. For example, initially I wanted to go all-in on the use of leftover 'firstborn' parts for the Primaris models. Yet, seeing the kits and the actual size differences, this would've been to big of a bother and that'd also be somewhat detrimental to the final product. After all, Primaris arms have some nice-ish gubbins on them: extra armour, buttons, etc. It also turns out that Primaris chainswords and arms significantly differ from 'firstborn' ones - the Primaris have the armour/shield thingy; the shape and length of the chainswords differ. And, on top of that, there are the slight difference in aesthetics, something that I've probably seen in photos online but haven't truly understand before close inspection of the sprues in person.

 

In consequence, I think, I'll stick to using Primaris sprues for this project. Partly because of the amount of work needed to adapt the older bits and partly because I think I'll want an aesthetically uniform 'army.' My squat-Templars are a diverse bunch; I want my Primarines to be more more coherent.

 

As such, I think I'll embrace the modernised, tacti-coolish weapons and armour; I guess I won't be swapping bolt rifles for shorter bolters, nor the new chainswords for the older, more ornate, yet more boxy ones. I'll do this mostly out of convenience but, I think, it'll be a good choice in the long run - being able to worn on more ready-made bits that are also completely new to me should be more fun.

 

As a side-note, after taking some time with the new sprues, I have a better understanding of why I "don't like Primaris." They don't feel like the Space Marines that I've grown to like over the years. They don't feel like something from GW's studio. They feel like a piece of fan art, a modern take on a Space Marine, with the silhuette and basic assumptions there, but missing the mark of being the real thing. They feel like something posted on DeviantArt. I think that the upscaled models for Horus Heresy are doing a way better job at representing proper Space Marines.

 

And for this project, I'll embrace the DeviantArt-eque nature of standard Primaris kits and see whether I'll be able to competently imbue them with some much-needed diversity.

[TheArtilleryman]

I definitely understand a lot of your sentiment here. While I have taken the plunge slightly into the primaris world, I haven’t gone full-tilt (although I’m probably just lying to myself to make myself feel better XD). I have a small number of Raven Guard Phobos marines which I have converted with MKVI helmets, and one squad of lightning claw vanguard veterans which I kitbashed out of assault intercessors, and again gave beaky heads. I don’t feel like going full-on primaris (not yet anyway).

My next space marine project will be (hopefully) getting the Age of Darkness box and building it in a way that means I can double up as many units as possible for both 30k and 40K. Because I don’t have a single bolt rifle in the army (Phobos bolters are much more similar to old bolters in size) and the Phobos guys are a little smaller in stature than intercessors, I’m hoping the scale will look OK together. If not I’ll add some stuff to the bases of the MKVI guys to lift them a touch.

 

The main thing with the primaris marines is that they do look too uniform as you say. They haven’t had the decades of different armour marks and dozens of different space marine kits from several different factions, and they don’t have the cross-compatibility between kits that gave old-style marines so much variety. This fits with the lore around primaris, that basically says they were mass-produced by Cawl, so even their fictional personalities have less character.

 

That said, however, the models themselves are good to look at and feel good to have. I’m really interested to see what you do with your conversation work, as I know how carefully you think things through. The Leviathan box is actually quite inspiring and most of the models fit in with my idea of how GW should have launched bigmarines in the first place i.e. sticking with classic marines and just giving them upscaled kits.

 

 

 

Edited March 4 by TheArtilleryman

[Firedrake Cordova]

If you want to individualise the models, but don't want to spend too long cutting them up. are there any third-party providers of parts (i.e. 3D printed or cast) that can be added as replacements for shoulder pads, heads, etc? I'm just thinking that might be a low-effort way of satisfying your desire to make them a little different.  

[TheArtilleryman]

25 minutes ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

If you want to individualise the models, but don't want to spend too long cutting them up. are there any third-party providers of parts (i.e. 3D printed or cast) that can be added as replacements for shoulder pads, heads, etc? I'm just thinking that might be a low-effort way of satisfying your desire to make them a little different.  

Actually head swaps are pretty easy as most of the firstborn heads look good on primaris bodies. So raiding the bits box for heads would be a nice start.

[Brother Christopher]

@TheArtilleryman Thanks for a very thoughtful response. I think that we're in many respects in a similar boat. With the reservation that Primaris models are quite samey, they are have a more striking presence and should be pretty cool to have in limited numbers, more like collector's items, rather than game pieces.

 

Good luck with your project. I think that you have a very reasonable approach: trying to 'optimise' your collection to be usable in two game systems.

 

22 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

The main thing with the primaris marines is that they do look too uniform as you say. They haven’t had the decades of different armour marks and dozens of different space marine kits from several different factions, and they don’t have the cross-compatibility between kits that gave old-style marines so much variety.

 

I'm worried that it's not really a matter of time but of GW's design philosophy. The old kits had 'pre-installed' variety: the poses were meh but at least you had different chests, legs and helmets in all kits. Primaris are more like I see the Age of Sigmar Marines (Sigmarites?) - from what I've seen there's some variety but fundamentally, all have the same armour design.

 

I am hopeful that GW will finally quit this nonsense and for 10th edition, we'll get a tactical and devastator squad, much like they did with Terminators and Sternguard.

22 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

That said, however, the models themselves are good to look at and feel good to have. I’m really interested to see what you do with your conversation work, as I know how carefully you think things through. The Leviathan box is actually quite inspiring and most of the models fit in with my idea of how GW should have launched bigmarines in the first place i.e. sticking with classic marines and just giving them upscaled kits.

 

These are my thoughts, too. That's why I'm so glad I won the box and can do this project without stressing about the game and such. I'm struggling to go through the models-first approach but I think I'll manage ;) I'd just love for GW to introduce rules for Terminators for Kill Team (I'd love to see Termies instead of Heavy Intercessors).

 

21 hours ago, Firedrake Cordova said:

If you want to individualise the models, but don't want to spend too long cutting them up. are there any third-party providers of parts (i.e. 3D printed or cast) that can be added as replacements for shoulder pads, heads, etc?

 

My biggest gripe is with the legs and chest pieces; I have some leftover helmets and more ornate shoulder pads so I should be okay with that. But legs and torsos are more problematic. And admittedly, I've failed to find 3D models that are cool enough: the majority of 3D models I've seen feel wrong. Maybe there are better renders on some sites but from what I've been able to find, the models are generally not to my liking.

 

So I feel I'm bound to the oldschool methods ;)  But with >30 models, it feels a lot more manageable that my main force.