opinions on HH legends rules in 40k

[MaximusTL]

I know that they aren't tournament legal, but for those of you who have played games with them, what are your opinions on the viableness of HH tanks in 40k? i havent been playing alot of 10th edition largely due to scarcity of nearby FLGS, but some online friends and I are beginning to play some games on tabletop simulator. are any of the HH units good/worth the points? any standout stuff? alot of this stems from my general lack of playing in 10th, but is the 2 wounds, 4 lascannon shots, and 16 transport capacity worth the extra 75 points to take a spartan over a landraider? the tyhon looks murderous, but is it worth 385? the Kratos is one of my favorite tanks in all of warhammer, but its rule seem just alright.  any opinions/stories/mathhammer is appreciated.

[Bouargh]

Tricky question. As far as I am concerned I field them msinly because:

1 I own the models already

2 I like how they look

 

I do not specifically look for a tactical or perfile advantage in general. Some exceptions though: transport capacity for a Spartan or a Stormeagle. 

 

There is IMHO nothing really worth comparing between codex and HH legends rules. I mean that eventual disparities and unbalances between both sources are not worse than internal unbalances within the sole codex itself...

 

As far as the fun aspect prevail, I would say that HH units are great. Yet I would not advise buying fir gaming purpose in 40k, except if you maitain a HH army too or have a modelling purpose.

 

My 2 cents...

 

[TheArtilleryman]

They look pretty fun to me. Kratos battle cannon looks like it will wreck, especially with the heavy keyword on the S18 profile so it can hit on a 2+. Even at the blast profile with D6+3 S10 Damage 3 it is going to do some work.

Leviathan siege dreadnought with grav-flux bombard - anti vehicle 2+, 2D3 shots at Damage 2, and the -1 damage reduction is nice. Pair it with meltaguns and the siege drill with anti-vehicle 3+ damage 3 for a tank-hunting behemoth.

Spartan has transport capacity of 28!!! So even more than in HH. Only problem is finding an army build to take advantage of it, because it’s going to be fairly rare when you have that many models in a single unit. But seeing as the land-raider rush is a big tactic this edition, carrying double the number of terminators or aggressors right into the enemy’s face is going to be pretty nasty. It doesn’t have the assault ramp but it does have the fire support rule which is quite nice. Also the quad lascannons are insane - 8 full shots at SM BS is lethal, especially with the buff to their profile in 10th.

 

Sure all these things are expensive but you don’t take them for the meta, you take them for the fun :)

Edited March 9 by TheArtilleryman

[Tokugawa]

Unless in formal tournaments, just say "this Spartan is a land raider" or "this Leviathan is a Redemptor". Opponent won't question anything.

[crimsondave]

5 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

They look pretty fun to me. Kratos battle cannon looks like it will wreck, especially with the heavy keyword on the S18 profile so it can hit on a 2+. Even at the blast profile with D6+3 S10 Damage 3 it is going to do some work.

Leviathan siege dreadnought with grav-flux bombard - anti vehicle 2+, 2D3 shots at Damage 2, and the -1 damage reduction is nice. Pair it with meltaguns and the siege drill with anti-vehicle 3+ damage 3 for a tank-hunting behemoth.

Spartan has transport capacity of 28!!! So even more than in HH. Only problem is finding an army build to take advantage of it, because it’s going to be fairly rare when you have that many models in a single unit. But seeing as the land-raider rush is a big tactic this edition, carrying double the number of terminators or aggressors right into the enemy’s face is going to be pretty nasty. It doesn’t have the assault ramp but it does have the fire support rule which is quite nice. Also the quad lascannons are insane - 8 full shots at SM BS is lethal, especially with the buff to their profile in 10th.

 

Sure all these things are expensive but you don’t take them for the meta, you take them for the fun :)

 

You're looking at the old rules.  They updated the Spartan to no longer have "fire support" but DOES have "assault ramp."  It was an obvious error that is now corrected.

 

Spartan.pdf

[TheArtilleryman]

2 hours ago, crimsondave said:

 

You're looking at the old rules.  They updated the Spartan to no longer have "fire support" but DOES have "assault ramp."  It was an obvious error that is now corrected.

 

Spartan.pdfUnavailable

Well even better! I downloaded those rules this morning from Warhammer Community so they clearly haven’t updated the link on the original post.

[crimsondave]

1 hour ago, TheArtilleryman said:

Well even better! I downloaded those rules this morning from Warhammer Community so they clearly haven’t updated the link on the original post.

That doesn't surprise me.  The whole thing is too big to attach here.  I downloaded it from somewhere on their site.

 

Edit:

 

Here is is.  It's listed as "Horus Heresy Legends:  Adeptus Astartes" last updated 24/8/2023.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/

Edited March 9 by crimsondave

[Waaagh?]

I know I'm going to get disliked for this but it's my opinion that if you like 30k models then play 30k. I'm glad GW are doing things to make each game separate and have their own range of specific models. I'm glad new HH stuff seems to not be getting 40k rules at all.

Edited March 9 by Waaagh?

[Interrogator Stobz]

Yep, many of us will disagree with that opinion.

But neither you nor us need to play together so you won't be offended by us that do love the variety.

 

What new HH stuff has no 40k rules?

I haven't checked for a few months.

[crimsondave]

1 hour ago, Waaagh? said:

I know I'm going to get disliked for this but it's my opinion that if you like 30k models then play 30k. I'm glad GW are doing things to make each game separate and have their own range of specific models. I'm glad new HH stuff seems to not be getting 40k rules at all.

I don’t like the 30k game, therefore I don’t play 30k.

[Waaagh?]

8 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

Yep, many of us will disagree with that opinion.

But neither you nor us need to play together so you won't be offended by us that do love the variety.

 

What new HH stuff has no 40k rules?

I haven't checked for a few months.

 

They stated in the Solar Auxilia reveal that stuff wouldn't be getting 40k rules. Stuff like the Malcador already did but obviously the 3 new sentinels, dracosans etc. There's also a bunch of the plastic marine releases that didn't get 40k rules unless they had them already. 

[Cleon]

If you have the 30k models or really like them then go ahead and use them in 40k, but how I read GWs behaviour is that there's no guarantee the Legends rules will survive next edition, so make any purchase decisions so you'd be happy if you only get a couple of years use of the model.

[crimsondave]

3 hours ago, Cleon said:

If you have the 30k models or really like them then go ahead and use them in 40k, but how I read GWs behaviour is that there's no guarantee the Legends rules will survive next edition, so make any purchase decisions so you'd be happy if you only get a couple of years use of the model.

While I would agree that not counting on rules in the next total revamp (12th edition maybe?) is the safe play, I was shocked at how much stuff they rolled over to the legends indexes for 10th that I figured they would just life end.  I have a lot of FW Guard stuff that I did not think would be supported via legends sheets but ended up having one.

[MegaVolt87]

9 hours ago, crimsondave said:

While I would agree that not counting on rules in the next total revamp (12th edition maybe?) is the safe play, I was shocked at how much stuff they rolled over to the legends indexes for 10th that I figured they would just life end.  I have a lot of FW Guard stuff that I did not think would be supported via legends sheets but ended up having one.

 

Its not really a shock, firstborn erasure is happening. GW has decided they cannot co-exist in 40k for whatever reason. If they could, we would still have what we had in 8th ed otherwise for firstborn- which was their 40k and 30k units. 

[The Spitehorde]

My usual gaming group run quite a lot of Legends stuff. I suppose that might be because in general we're all old farts with a love of the lore where ancient machinery is venerated and only taken out of the armouries for the direst of emergencies. 

 

My personal fav (which also adds some much needed firepower to a WE side) is a Spartan running laser destroyers. It's just hilarious when you scoot it across the table and chuck out a unit a turn for three turns ( 2 x 10 'zerks, 1 x 5 'zerks & MoE). It's like a Pez dispenser of hatred. 

[Helias_Tancred]

On 3/9/2024 at 3:54 PM, Waaagh? said:

I know I'm going to get disliked for this but it's my opinion that if you like 30k models then play 30k. I'm glad GW are doing things to make each game separate and have their own range of specific models. I'm glad new HH stuff seems to not be getting 40k rules at all.

 

I agree! More times than not in editions past the 40k Forgeworld stuff had better rules, and more times than not it was the munchkin players in the game stores that played random peeps, that loved using them, for that reason: WAAC, nerd gamer ego, etc. 

 

But especially now since there is a viable HH game, if you want to run that stuff you should be playing 30k. 

 

Among friends, not usually a big deal. But some local Waac nerd I don't know from Adam, wrecking people new to the hobby in Pete's House of Dragons with his 30k unit loaded 40k army? lol nope. Hard pass. 

 

 

Edited March 12 by Helias_Tancred

[Interrogator Stobz]

That's the opposite of correct.  

Far more regular units have been broken than anything from FW. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

When playing games that aren't tournament games or matched play games, my opinion is that all 10th edition data sheets are viable. Legends or not. They're all usable and whilst some might need some extra support (like many datasheets across the board) they're all viable. 

 

I use my Sicaran for my Red Corsairs often and it's usually the MVP

Edited March 11 by TrawlingCleaner

[crimsondave]

2 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

That's the opposite of correct.  

Far more regular units have been broken than anything from FW. 

The few FW units that were a problem got lots of notice.  Fact is most of the FW stuff was way inferior.  It was just cool.

[Petitioner's City]

On 3/9/2024 at 8:54 PM, Waaagh? said:

I know I'm going to get disliked for this but it's my opinion that if you like 30k models then play 30k. I'm glad GW are doing things to make each game separate and have their own range of specific models. I'm glad new HH stuff seems to not be getting 40k rules at all.

 

I take it you never really read old Imperial Armour books? IA2 second edition or IA13, or the Badab duology, all of which really show well how 'heresy' things existed in the 41st millennium (and its predecessors). 

 

IA2 (space marines, second edition) - https://warhammer-vault.com/publication/2Sw0Pixx32tpApvzEnAhE6

 

IA13 (chaos) - https://warhammer-vault.com/publication/5RXGlTpYhoG8rHqEP2fCxE

 

Relevant also for malcadors, macharius, baneblades, etc - IA1 (imperial guard, second edition) - https://warhammer-vault.com/publication/5dqjQhY8g6sVaogT5PGszB

 

The statement you are making is blind to the history and origins of many of these models, but also blind to the narrative they each represent as relics in the modern era!

 

 

[Helias_Tancred]

....

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12 by Helias_Tancred

[Cpt_Reaper]

Seeing as us 40k players having heresy-era stuff doesn't take away from 30k players then there is no reason for us to not have heresy-era stuff.

 

I had no intention of playing 30k. Now, I have very little reason to buy 30k tanks because I don't own shelf queens.

[Helias_Tancred]

17 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

That's the opposite of correct.  

Far more regular units have been broken than anything from FW. 

 

By grace of the number of units FW made that could be used in 40k versus the number of regular 40k units made, definitely. It didn't change the fact the FW units were stronger, which was usually the primary reason someone wanted one in their 40k marine army. 

 

Why did someone want to run a Sicarran over a Predator? It was kinda obvious. 

 

 

Edited March 12 by Helias_Tancred

[crimsondave]

39 minutes ago, Helias_Tancred said:

 

By grace of the number of units FW made that could be used in 40k versus the number of regular 40k units made, definitely. It didn't change the fact the FW units were stronger, which was usually the primary reason someone wanted one in their 40k marine army. 

 

Why did someone want to run a Sicarran over a Predator? It was kinda obvious. 

 

 

It was also almost double the points.

[Noserenda]

Yeah the OP FW units from over the years you could probably count on one hand, people used them because they liked the models usually, or were flexing their wallet, or they already had it for 30k and wanted to get some more use out of it :D