Blindhamster Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 If actually say the fact he is walking and not running shows a sign of restraint lol Wispy and Inquisitor_Lensoven 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 The old model told a story. The new model could be any aggro marine. And with that, I think I will rest my case. Inquisitor_Lensoven, Kastor Krieg, DemonGSides and 7 others 7 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:23 PM, Scribe said: The old model told a story. The new model could be any aggro marine. And with that, I think I will rest my case. Expand Are you sure the story the old model told isn't one you pieced together yourself over the years? I'm sure the new model will create some stories, given enough time. HolyPestilience, Blindhamster, Cenobite Terminator and 8 others 6 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:23 PM, Scribe said: The old model told a story. The new model could be any aggro marine. And with that, I think I will rest my case. Expand I could see the new one as shouting orders to his brothers, controlling them from the front. I think the last one was a wonderful model, I don’t really agree that it embodied the actual story/persona of lemartes. to me lemartes should look angry, barely controlled. The old one never looked like that. It was a wonderful model and probably the best chaplain model, period. But I really like this new one as Lemartes personally. Cenobite Terminator and skylerboodie 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:13 PM, DemonGSides said: This is exactly Scribes point; the new Lemartes model is definitely just full on rage boner mode. The old model could be argued to hew too close to restrained. I think there's a better middle ground that would fit the "Guy gripped by rage but is holding onto it quite well" that isn't "This is Wolverine." Like we got. I don't hate the new model. Just liked the old one more. Expand Well the tabletop is a battlefield, so it makes sense that lemartese would let more of the rage out, and for the model to reflect that… Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:23 PM, Scribe said: The old model told a story. The new model could be any aggro marine. And with that, I think I will rest my case. Expand What story did it tell exactly? And which old model? One is ridiculous, and one looks like a lamer version of the bear hug chaplain. ThaneOfTas, Cenobite Terminator and HeadlessCross 1 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:51 PM, Blindhamster said: I could see the new one as shouting orders to his brothers, controlling them from the front. Expand He's a better pose for Khârn. I'm not saying the new one is bad. Its fine, but the last metal sculpt is far better than fine. There is nothing in this new model that is unique. Slap some Lightning Claws on him, and hes a literal stand in for the typical Wolverine pose. Which is fine, but we've seen it a million times. DemonGSides 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:44 PM, Orange Knight said: Are you sure the story the old model told isn't one you pieced together yourself over the years? Expand Yep, I am sure. Cenobite Terminator and DemonGSides 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 Perfectly happy to agree to disagree mate, and can see where you’re coming from best thing about the hobby is having things for everyone and I can’t see anyone stopping you using the old model (which was always going to be a struggle to top or even equal, which I think is part of why I am so pleased, I expected much less haha) Gamiel 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 8:59 PM, Blindhamster said: Perfectly happy to agree to disagree mate, and can see where you’re coming from best thing about the hobby is having things for everyone and I can’t see anyone stopping you using the old model (which was always going to be a struggle to top or even equal, which I think is part of why I am so pleased, I expected much less haha) Expand Yeah I mean it could have been the next Coteaz, and nobody wants that. ThaneOfTas, Blindhamster, Kharn13 and 1 other 2 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharn13 Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 I personally love both of the new sculpts. Lemartes is mint. The more I look at it the more I like it - shackled into his armour around his legs and chest. Has the rage overcome him and he’s now locked inside of his suit? Aarik 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 (edited) On 7/30/2024 at 7:42 PM, Scribe said: The entire point being for Lamartes, that he retains his lucidity while in the grip of the Black Rage...but whatever I suppose. Expand that doesn't mean he's calm, that means he's six seconds from going from a wrathful, directed rage to totally uncontrollably berserk. the idea that the old model represented constrained rage is silly. there's no storytelling there, it's an exercise in contradiction and you need third hand knowledge to know he's dealing with rage. in fact if i was looking to depict a chaplain who was not constantly fighting-to-remain-in-control-of-rage-lest-it-consume-him, i would probably pick the guy 'calmly and carefully lining up a shot with his pistol.' Edited July 30, 2024 by Wispy Inquisitor_Lensoven, Cenobite Terminator, ZeroWolf and 2 others 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 9:21 PM, Wispy said: that doesn't mean he's calm, that means he's six seconds from going from a wrathful, directed rage to totally uncontrollably berserk. the old model could be any other chaplain and never conveyed this. Expand Perhaps the ongoing decline of the lore is to blame, but no. The whole point is that Lemartes, as a Chaplain (the group that the DC follow) while afflicted with the Black Rage, can still be trusted to remain in control. He was not killed, because he can maintain that control. That doesnt mean he becomes Wolverine once he hits the field, and is just another DC marine. It means he.. maintains control as a Chaplain would, despite being afflicted. The old model reflects that control. The new model, while again passable, its at least not Coteaz tier, does not, and could just as easily be the framework for a new World Eater character. As far as telling a story, its a clear step down. Thats cool if folks still like the new model, its fine, but it doesnt hold a candle to the last one, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise. Its like the new Lelith vs the last metal one (and guess who scultped the last Lemartes AND Lelith). Wispy, HolyPestilience, Cenobite Terminator and 4 others 4 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephaston Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 9:18 PM, Kharn13 said: I personally love both of the new sculpts. Lemartes is mint. The more I look at it the more I like it - shackled into his armour around his legs and chest. Has the rage overcome him and he’s now locked inside of his suit? Expand He probably gets shackled along with his DC brethren in solidarity. His constant struggle for lucidity could also be lost at any moment, so better safe than sorry. Kharn13 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 (edited) He doesn’t remain in control to the level you’re suggesting. He literally sees the events of the heresy still, it’s just they’re overlaying the real world rather than all he can see. It’s a constant struggle for him to retain even the base knowledge he is lemartes and not sanguinius. That is in fact the test they use to decide if it’s time for him to die. But once he fights, he does in fact fight with rage more or less like the rest of the death company, the difference is that he has just barely enough lucidity to direct his brothers whilst doing so (or at least to get there). Hell, that’s even been his thematic rules basically forever. to me, the new model fits the fury unbound aspect of his character. The point is that he fights to retain control enough to lead his brothers till It’s time to cut lose, when he does so, he really does. the book; Lemartes: guardian of the lost depicts this pretty well IMO On 7/30/2024 at 9:42 PM, Nephaston said: He probably gets shackled along with his DC brethren in solidarity. His constant struggle for lucidity could also be lost at any moment, so better safe than sorry. Expand He gets shackled up because he doesn’t trust himself to be around his brothers outside of battle, he views his ate struggle with the rage as a losing battle, but also views the curse as a way for him to still serve. Corbulo doesn’t entirely agree edit: it’s also worth noting that during battle basically all blood angels are noted as fighting as berserkers when the red thirst kicks in, let alone the black rage. There’s a reason it traditionally mirrors the world eaters army rule lol Edited July 30, 2024 by Blindhamster Gamiel, Inquisitor_Lensoven, Rhavien and 3 others 4 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 Blood Angels Chaplains before Lemartes; Kharn13, Gamiel, divad8 and 1 other 3 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 9:51 PM, Blindhamster said: it’s also worth noting that during battle basically all blood angels are noted as fighting as berserkers when the red thirst kicks in, let alone the black rage. There’s a reason it traditionally mirrors the world eaters army rule lol Expand All the more reason to go a different direction. Let Seth and the Flesh Tearers reflect this aspect of the Blood Angel line, and let the Angels, be the Angels. But alas, I am just one man in the wilderness... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 In 3rd edition, my man had a minor re-pose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonGSides Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 If Lemartes is just the same as all other Black Rage inductees, then he isn't special at all. His reserved model helped distinguish him amongst a group of feral monsters. But sure, more Wolverine poses are better. Whatever floats your boat. Opinions are like... Well you guys know the rest of that saying. We can probs move on from litigating who likes which pose better. Cenobite Terminator, ThaneOfTas, Scribe and 1 other 1 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephaston Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 It probably doesn't help that the discussion is also always the same one when a model is revealed. Some will argue it's somehow never as good as what came before, everything is worse now and will never be good again, others will focus on the positives. It doesn't matter, were talking about our subjective perception of plastic dollies that are a momental snapshot of characters, and we apply ethereal values like lucidity to them. Gamiel, Rhavien, Blindhamster and 7 others 5 4 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 It was metal. ThaneOfTas, kooper, Kastor Krieg and 3 others 1 3 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted July 30, 2024 Share Posted July 30, 2024 (edited) On 7/30/2024 at 10:06 PM, Scribe said: All the more reason to go a different direction. Let Seth and the Flesh Tearers reflect this aspect of the Blood Angel line, and let the Angels, be the Angels. But alas, I am just one man in the wilderness... Expand But it’s literally the Blood Angels, the chapter, not just a general reference to the sons of the angel. the flesh tearers go even further. if you want to focus on the noble aspect of the chapter and gene line that’s fine, that’s why the sanguinor, and Dante and corbulo exist. mephiston, astorath, and lemartese embody the darker side of the chapter, and imho trying to push that to the side for any of them does the character themselves and the chapter a great disservice. Edited July 30, 2024 by Inquisitor_Lensoven jaxom, skylerboodie, Gamiel and 2 others 3 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 31, 2024 Share Posted July 31, 2024 On 7/30/2024 at 11:36 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said: But it’s literally the Blood Angels, the chapter, not just a general reference to the sons of the angel. the flesh tearers go even further. if you want to focus on the noble aspect of the chapter and gene line that’s fine, that’s why the sanguinor, and Dante and corbulo exist. mephiston, astorath, and lemartese embody the darker side of the chapter, and imho trying to push that to the side for any of them does the character themselves and the chapter a great disservice. Expand My friend, you have said that everything after 8th is an improvement over the Lemartes model in discussion. We have no common ground here, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to ignore you, but we just will never see eye to eye. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted July 31, 2024 Share Posted July 31, 2024 (edited) On 7/30/2024 at 10:16 PM, DemonGSides said: If Lemartes is just the same as all other Black Rage inductees, then he isn't special at all. Expand Looking like a regular Chaplain calmly taking his time aiming his pistol doesn't make him feel special or distinct either. He's not supposed to be a cerebral character. Edited July 31, 2024 by Wispy DemonGSides and Inquisitor_Lensoven 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted July 31, 2024 Share Posted July 31, 2024 On 7/31/2024 at 4:18 AM, Wispy said: Looking like a regular Chaplain calmly taking his time aiming his pistol doesn't make him feel special or distinct either. Expand A Death Company Character noted for his self control, calmly taking a shot instead of assuming the aggro pose of other Death Company isnt distinct? But the Wolverine pose is? DemonGSides and ThaneOfTas 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/382499-blood-angel-boxset/page/17/#findComment-6053164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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