Rumour Blood Angel Boxset

[Blindhamster]

If actually say the fact he is walking and not running shows a sign of restraint lol

[Scribe]

The old model told a story.

 

The new model could be any aggro marine.

 

And with that, I think I will rest my case.

[Orange Knight]

19 minutes ago, Scribe said:

The old model told a story.

 

The new model could be any aggro marine.

 

And with that, I think I will rest my case.

 

Are you sure the story the old model told isn't one you pieced together yourself over the years?

 

I'm sure the new model will create some stories, given enough time.

 

 

[Blindhamster]

23 minutes ago, Scribe said:

The old model told a story.

 

The new model could be any aggro marine.

 

And with that, I think I will rest my case.

I could see the new one as shouting orders to his brothers, controlling them from the front. 
 

I think the last one was a wonderful model, I don’t really agree that it embodied the actual story/persona of lemartes. 
 

to me lemartes should look angry, barely controlled. The old one never looked like that. It was a wonderful model and probably the best chaplain model, period. But I really like this new one as Lemartes personally.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

37 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

This is exactly Scribes point; the new Lemartes model is definitely just full on rage boner mode. The old model could be argued to hew too close to restrained.

 

I think there's a better middle ground that would fit the "Guy gripped by rage but is holding onto it quite well" that isn't "This is Wolverine." Like we got.

 

I don't hate the new model. Just liked the old one more. 

Well the tabletop is a battlefield, so it makes sense that lemartese would let more of the rage out, and for the model to reflect that…

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

29 minutes ago, Scribe said:

The old model told a story.

 

The new model could be any aggro marine.

 

And with that, I think I will rest my case.

What story did it tell exactly?

And which old model? 
One is ridiculous, and one looks like a lamer version of the bear hug chaplain.

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I could see the new one as shouting orders to his brothers, controlling them from the front. 

 

He's a better pose for Khârn. I'm not saying the new one is bad. Its fine, but the last metal sculpt is far better than fine.

 

There is nothing in this new model that is unique. Slap some Lightning Claws on him, and hes a literal stand in for the typical Wolverine pose. Which is fine, but we've seen it a million times.

[Scribe]

11 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Are you sure the story the old model told isn't one you pieced together yourself over the years?

 

Yep, I am sure.

[Blindhamster]

Perfectly happy to agree to disagree mate, and can see where you’re coming from 
 

best thing about the hobby is having things for everyone and I can’t see anyone stopping you using the old model (which was always going to be a struggle to top or even equal, which I think is part of why I am so pleased, I expected much less haha)

[Scribe]

3 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Perfectly happy to agree to disagree mate, and can see where you’re coming from 
 

best thing about the hobby is having things for everyone and I can’t see anyone stopping you using the old model (which was always going to be a struggle to top or even equal, which I think is part of why I am so pleased, I expected much less haha)

 

Yeah I mean it could have been the next Coteaz, and nobody wants that.

[Kharn13]

I personally love both of the new sculpts. Lemartes is mint. The more I look at it the more I like it - shackled into his armour around his legs and chest. Has the rage overcome him and he’s now locked inside of his suit?

[Wispy]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

 

The entire point being for Lamartes, that he retains his lucidity while in the grip of the Black Rage...but whatever I suppose.

that doesn't mean he's calm, that means he's six seconds from going from a wrathful, directed rage to totally uncontrollably berserk. 

 

the idea that the old model represented constrained rage is silly. there's no storytelling there, it's an exercise in contradiction and you need third hand knowledge to know he's dealing with rage. in fact if i was looking to depict a chaplain who was not constantly fighting-to-remain-in-control-of-rage-lest-it-consume-him, i would probably pick the guy 'calmly and carefully lining up a shot with his pistol.' 

Edited July 30 by Wispy

[Scribe]

Just now, Wispy said:

that doesn't mean he's calm, that means he's six seconds from going from a wrathful, directed rage to totally uncontrollably berserk. 

 

the old model could be any other chaplain and never conveyed this. 

 

Perhaps the ongoing decline of the lore is to blame, but no. The whole point is that Lemartes, as a Chaplain (the group that the DC follow) while afflicted with the Black Rage, can still be trusted to remain in control. He was not killed, because he can maintain that control.

 

That doesnt mean he becomes Wolverine once he hits the field, and is just another DC marine. It means he.. maintains control as a Chaplain would, despite being afflicted.

 

The old model reflects that control. The new model, while again passable, its at least not Coteaz tier, does not, and could just as easily be the framework for a new World Eater character.

 

As far as telling a story, its a clear step down. Thats cool if folks still like the new model, its fine, but it doesnt hold a candle to the last one, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.

 

Its like the new Lelith vs the last metal one (and guess who scultped the last Lemartes AND Lelith).

[Nephaston]

22 minutes ago, Kharn13 said:

I personally love both of the new sculpts. Lemartes is mint. The more I look at it the more I like it - shackled into his armour around his legs and chest. Has the rage overcome him and he’s now locked inside of his suit?

He probably gets shackled along with his DC brethren in solidarity. His constant struggle for lucidity could also be lost at any moment, so better safe than sorry.

[Blindhamster]

He doesn’t remain in control to the level you’re suggesting. He literally sees the events of the heresy still, it’s just they’re overlaying the real world rather than all he can see. It’s a constant struggle for him to retain even the base knowledge he is lemartes and not sanguinius. That is in fact the test they use to decide if it’s time for him to die. But once he fights, he does in fact fight with rage more or less like the rest of the death company, the difference is that he has just barely enough lucidity to direct his brothers whilst doing so (or at least to get there). Hell, that’s even been his thematic rules basically forever. 
 

to me, the new model fits the fury unbound aspect of his character. The point is that he fights to retain control enough to lead his brothers till It’s time to cut lose, when he does so, he really does.
 

the book; Lemartes: guardian of the lost depicts this pretty well IMO
 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

He probably gets shackled along with his DC brethren in solidarity. His constant struggle for lucidity could also be lost at any moment, so better safe than sorry.

He gets shackled up because he doesn’t trust himself to be around his brothers outside of battle, he views his ate struggle with the rage as a losing battle, but also views the curse as a way for him to still serve. Corbulo doesn’t entirely agree

 

edit:

 

it’s also worth noting that during battle basically all blood angels are noted as fighting as berserkers when the red thirst kicks in, let alone the black rage. There’s a reason it traditionally mirrors the world eaters army rule lol

Edited July 30 by Blindhamster

[Valkyrion]

Blood Angels Chaplains before Lemartes;

 

 

 

 

 

[Scribe]

13 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

it’s also worth noting that during battle basically all blood angels are noted as fighting as berserkers when the red thirst kicks in, let alone the black rage. There’s a reason it traditionally mirrors the world eaters army rule lol

 

All the more reason to go a different direction. Let Seth and the Flesh Tearers reflect this aspect of the Blood Angel line, and let the Angels, be the Angels.

 

But alas, I am just one man in the wilderness...

[Valkyrion]

 

In 3rd edition, my man had a minor re-pose. 

[DemonGSides]

If Lemartes is just the same as all other Black Rage inductees, then he isn't special at all. His reserved model helped distinguish him amongst a group of feral monsters.

 

But sure, more Wolverine poses are better. Whatever floats your boat. Opinions are like... Well you guys know the rest of that saying.  We can probs move on from litigating who likes which pose better. 

[Nephaston]

It probably doesn't help that the discussion is also always the same one when a model is revealed. Some will argue it's somehow never as good as what came before, everything is worse now and will never be good again, others will focus on the positives. It doesn't matter, were talking about our subjective perception of plastic dollies that are a momental snapshot of  characters, and we apply ethereal values like lucidity to them.

[Scribe]

It was metal.

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Scribe said:

 

All the more reason to go a different direction. Let Seth and the Flesh Tearers reflect this aspect of the Blood Angel line, and let the Angels, be the Angels.

 

But alas, I am just one man in the wilderness...

But it’s literally the Blood Angels, the chapter, not just a general reference to the sons of the angel.

the flesh tearers go even further.

 

if you want to focus on the noble aspect of the chapter and gene line that’s fine, that’s why the sanguinor, and Dante and corbulo exist.

 

mephiston, astorath, and lemartese embody the darker side of the chapter, and imho trying to push that to the side for any of them does the character themselves and the chapter a great disservice.

Edited July 30 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Scribe]

2 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

But it’s literally the Blood Angels, the chapter, not just a general reference to the sons of the angel.

the flesh tearers go even further.

 

if you want to focus on the noble aspect of the chapter and gene line that’s fine, that’s why the sanguinor, and Dante and corbulo exist.

 

mephiston, astorath, and lemartese embody the darker side of the chapter, and imho trying to push that to the side for any of them does the character themselves and the chapter a great disservice.

 

My friend, you have said that everything after 8th is an improvement over the Lemartes model in discussion. We have no common ground here, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to ignore you, but we just will never see eye to eye.

[Wispy]

6 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

If Lemartes is just the same as all other Black Rage inductees, then he isn't special at all. 

 

Looking like a regular Chaplain calmly taking his time aiming his pistol doesn't make him feel special or distinct either. He's not supposed to be a cerebral character.

 

Edited July 31 by Wispy

[Scribe]

46 minutes ago, Wispy said:

Looking like a regular Chaplain calmly taking his time aiming his pistol doesn't make him feel special or distinct either.

 

A Death Company Character noted for his self control, calmly taking a shot instead of assuming the aggro pose of other Death Company isnt distinct?

 

But the Wolverine pose is?