what was your experience with the primaris marines?

[terminator ultra]

I got in the the hobby in 2017 so when I got my first set (first strike) they were normal to me. when I got my first tactical squad a few months later, I thought these guys have dwarfism or something. but I'm sure that's not your view. 

(keep it constructive)

[Grotsmasha]

I was a massive fan of "true scaling" marines, so the models were a welcome addition to the range. I haven't played since 2nd Ed, so gameplay wise I was unaffected. Lore-wise, I haven't really kept up since before Psychic Awakening, so their "shoe-horning" into the lore also largely didn't affect me either 

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, terminator ultra said:

I got in the the hobby in 2017 so when I got my first set (first strike) they were normal to me. when I got my first tactical squad a few months later, I thought these guys have dwarfism or something. but I'm sure that's not your view. 

(keep it constructive)

I generally like them.  I'm not a fan of the slow release they're (still) getting or the squatting of the older guys (especially if they're squatted before their replacement). 

[AutumnEffect]

It caused me a lot of heartache at first.

I had a full biker White Scars army of firstborn, many models converted and with a lot of time, energy and love poured into them. Command squad, Librarian, Chaplain, Khan, etc. It was pretty obvious to me they were going to get shuffled off into retirement in legends so I put some in my display case and sold the others while I could.

I love the new Primaris models. Lore was/is a bit clunky but I think it's weird to get bent out of shape over.

[Gamiel]

I like them, and I like the way they were introduced and how they are used in the story to keep the Imperium afloat after giving Chaos a humongous victory. 

[Tokugawa]

I am not really a fan of primaris features or MKX armor or their story,  what I actually love are models with better scale and proportion. 

 

I didn't buy and build any old scaled marine models since ~2020. All I want to say is shown in this photo:

 

 

[Subtleknife]

There is/was too much. I like the Mk10 intercessor design and the better proportions are great too.

 

But I feel some of it just doesn't fit Space Marine aesthetics - particularly phobos armour which looks to tacticool for my liking.

 

There is also a problem with putting way to many guns on things. I quite like the shape of the repulsor but it has too much on, similarly with those new(ish) missile dudes (I forget the name of them as I really didn't like the look of them).

 

And some of the designs just look derpy in my eyes. For instance the suppressors. I just hope then not getting a wider release means they are being reworked.

 

Personally I would have just preffered a refresh/upgrade of the first born with a few new primaris units sprinkled in.

 

I quite like the new lore and seeing it move forward is a welcome change.

 

On the tabletop as they are GWs new money maker I'm sure if any new unit isn't effective it will be buffed to being at least usable.

Edited March 13 by Subtleknife

[Wormwoods]

They're fine, especially now that they're letting some truescale firstborn units in with the Sternguard (kinda) and taller terminators. Not all of the new primaris units and models work, but they're generally fine, and I like a lot of the current crop, those ugly missile guys aside. 

 

Would have been fine with them just making firstborn taller and not explaining it, but the primaris lore and models are fine. 

 

Now, don't get me started on Primarchs coming back, that's my real modern 40k complaint. 

[One Paul Murray]

From a narrative perspective I don't like the Rubicon Primaris. The conflict and tension between old and new was potentially quite rich, but has been hand-waved away. Also, it allows the endless continuation of named characters like Dante or Calgar.

 

Narratively there is no tension with those guys because they can't be allowed to die, and that is boring. Coupled with the tendency for recent novels to focus on a core of characters and it has taken some interest out of it, for me.

 

Appreciate this is a narrative answer though; the mass culling of older characters may obviously be unpopular with people.

[DemonGSides]

Should've killed a lot more characters. But people would flip. 

[Tacitus]

53 minutes ago, One Paul Murray said:

From a narrative perspective I don't like the Rubicon Primaris. The conflict and tension between old and new was potentially quite rich, but has been hand-waved away. Also, it allows the endless continuation of named characters like Dante or Calgar.

 

Narratively there is no tension with those guys because they can't be allowed to die, and that is boring. Coupled with the tendency for recent novels to focus on a core of characters and it has taken some interest out of it, for me.

 

Appreciate this is a narrative answer though; the mass culling of older characters may obviously be unpopular with people.

Yes, killing off models and units is unpopular - of course dying and being squatted are not the same thing.  And killing off main characters would more than likely unravel the fluff.  Without Abaddon the Black Legion loses a disproportionate level of power within the Chaos Legions.  There is one character I want replaced by a new one.  Tycho.  Ironically also for narrative reasons.  He would have never met let alone commanded a Primaris marine. 

[Tacitus]

2 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Should've killed a lot more characters. But people would flip. 

I originally imagined Crossing the Rubicon Primaris would have been the fluff reason they cycled some of the old characters out and some new characters in to reset some of the subfactions - For example, I kind of suspected they wanted to go more Tor Garadon than Lysander - so Lysander crosses the Rubicon, dies, and gets replaced by an Imperial Fist Libby - but not anymore. 

[Orange Knight]

I absolutely love the Primaris Marines.

 

Not only did they breathe new life into an idea which had begun to grow stale, but they also ushered a new age for the lore itself.

 

Their introduction was flawed, and they did cause a lot of grief for some hobbyists - although some of the negativity and nit-pickings went WAAAY too far. I think people forget that the lore exists to service the models and hobby, not the other way around.

 

I think GW do hold some blame because they detailed the chapters too much - it made any expansion or development basically impossible from a narrative sense. The initial lore offerings around the Primaris were also lacking, and some things even contradicted. I would say it took them almost 3 years to clean up the lore, but it's in a very good place now.

 

Ultimately, the original Marines had been driven into a creative dead end. The Primaris are not perfect, but enough of the core models succeed for me to be happy with the range. The basic Tacticus models, as well as the newer Gravis releases are all absolutely excellent. 

 

I think the community became very toxic during the transition period, but that seems to have passed for the most part.

 

 

[terminator ultra]

3 hours ago, One Paul Murray said:

Appreciate this is a narrative answer though; the mass culling of older characters may obviously be unpopular with people

yeah that's true. if you had to choose 3 characters to die, witch ones?

 

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

as well as the newer Gravis releases are all absolutely excellent

gravis captain=flawless

[DemonGSides]

7 hours ago, terminator ultra said:

yeah that's true. if you had to choose 3 characters to die, witch ones?

 

Literally every chapter master. Not all have to die in the Rubicon, but they should have pushed the time forward more (Hard to reconcile that the Badab War was less than 100 years before the Indomitus Crusade) and had a bunch of known quantities die 

 

I understand that the firstborn fanboys would probably lose their minds, but it would have been cool and a big shake up instead of the half measures they took, without being as insane of a shakeup as Age of Sigmar was, in comparison. 

Edited March 14 by DemonGSides

[terminator ultra]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Literally every chapter master. Not all have to die in the Rubicon, but they should have pushed the time forward more (Hard to reconcile that the Badab War was less than 100 years before the Infiniti's Crusade) and had a bunch of known quantities die 

if calger died on the operating table that would be epic honestly

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

The general idea is to collect marines all over again which I won´t do. Do I have Primaris? A couple from the Leviathan box, Command & Recruit edition of the previous rule iteration although the aim here was to collect a couple of bots for Oldhammer games. Do I hate them? The sculpts I got are fine although it must be said they have some of the worst units in the entire game which is a shame for the poster boys:

 

- Mario Kart

- Pole Vaulters

- Baby Car Seats

- Ork missile launchers

 

If they had just said this is armour mark "XYZ" no one would have batted an eye but they felt the need to be stupid and threw out this half-baked idea that machine man on Mars had a Legion of lab tube marines sitting in his alcove for 10K years ready to be unleashed should Abbadon would get ever uppity in the future. No one bought that crap.

[Brother Christopher]

I can't comment on the lore because I stopped following it around the release of Primaris models.

 

I definitely don't like the problems they created in the game leading to the the inevitable invalidation of many 'Firstborn' models. I also don't appreciate GW's makde-do, piecemeal handling of the 'scale' of models. I think that in their pursuit of money and wanting to sell people 'truescale' Space Marines, GW failed to consider the consequences of introducing upscaled models. In consequence, we have a a modelling landscape where Primaris Space Marines (or just Space Marines, as they will have been called next edition) are ridiculously larger than Grey Knights, Custodes or Chaos Space Marines. This is a problem that could've been avoided by just selling slightly larger and better models, just like those in the Space Marine Heroes series or the refreshed Horus Heresy models.

 

In terms of design, in a vacuum, I am okay with the look of Tacticus armour. However, I find it overwhelmingly annoying that all these Marines wear the exact same armour. The variety of older marks meant a lot to me.

 

Gravis, with the exception of individual models (I find the Apothecary, Iron Hands' character and Heavy Intercessors are more palatable) is ridiculous.

 

Bladeguard and other Elite Primaris (Sword Brethren, Dark Angel dudes) are cool in principle but suffer from somewhat clumsy poses and their accessories make the models look heavy, ridiculous and unpractical - even more so that many 'Firstborn' models. How in the world is a Bladeguard Vet supposed to get his armour of his backpack or move around with a 1.5 m scabbard or holster? With 'regular' Primaris (shooty and stabby Intercessors), wo got more 'realistic' marines; the size of accessories on the new kits are a huge miss in terms of making Marines more 'truescale.'

 

The light armour is okay with some tacticool options but the design of the greaves is a huge miss for me.

[One Paul Murray]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Literally every chapter master. Not all have to die in the Rubicon, but they should have pushed the time forward more (Hard to reconcile that the Badab War was less than 100 years before the Infiniti's Crusade) and had a bunch of known quantities die 

 

I understand that the firstborn fanboys would probably lose their minds, but it would have been cool and a big shake up instead of the half measures they took, without being as insane of a shakeup as Age of Sigmar was, in comparison. 

Not sure I am necessarily in for everyone being killed all at once in a big 'End Times' bonfire, but I do think that having named characters survive everything is narratively uninteresting. 

 

Dante could have gone out after his latest exertions and that would have seemed to be a fitting end to an epic arc. Calgar could easily go for me too, he doesn't interest me and it would give space for the promotion of another Ultramarine named character. But to be fair, that doesn't mean dying per se, he could be banged into a dreadnought. 

 

That all said I wouldn't just take aim at Loyalists. I find Abbadon dull, just as I found Archaon dull. The stock, "holds all chaos Gods at bay through sheer force of will" character holds no interest for me. Sometimes villains are supposed to lose because the flaws that make them villains betray them at the moment of their victory, and I think it would be miles more exciting from a narrative standpoint if someone like Huron Starscreamed Abbadon and divided chaos in their hour of victory.

[One Paul Murray]

6 hours ago, Tacitus said:

Yes, killing off models and units is unpopular - of course dying and being squatted are not the same thing.  And killing off main characters would more than likely unravel the fluff.  Without Abaddon the Black Legion loses a disproportionate level of power within the Chaos Legions.  There is one character I want replaced by a new one.  Tycho.  Ironically also for narrative reasons.  He would have never met let alone commanded a Primaris marine. 

This is 100% the case too. Killing off characters shouldn't mean they need to be pushed to Legends or pushed out of the codex. If they were bothered about potential game breaking combos from special characters then you could easily limit certain options.

 

For instance, if Uriel Ventris replaced Calgar you could have a Chapter Master Ventris, a Captain Ventris and Calgar in the codex, but no option of taking CM Ventris and Calgar in the same list.

[Blindhamster]

I loved them from the very first leaked lieutenant that so many people here thought was fake lol. The moment dark imperium was out I boxed up my old marines, and eventually sold them on.

[terminator ultra]

36 minutes ago, One Paul Murray said:

he could be banged into a dreadnought. 

dreadnought with even bigger fists than normal

[Helias_Tancred]

I've been into 40k since 6th edition. Overall I liked the primaris when they were released. The line definitely needed to be a more realistic size, and as a painter it was a no-brainer. It took a while to come around on the kit-bashing side of what the primaris introduction represented, but I'm fine with it now.  I also knew that the moment they were released that they were the future. I embraced them.

 

[Tokugawa]

Modern chaos marine and newest HH models also received improved scale. Not only primaris. Head/neck of a plague marine is 1 or 2 mm lower than a tacticus primaris marine, but PM has more mutated/decorated back pack, so the overall silhouettes have similar size. They don't look any problemical when putting together. 

 

 

As a DG player, what I want to tell first born advocates is: we are not on the same ship now. 

[Doghouse]

This is just my personal take.

 

I'd say my main issue has always been the ham fisted way they were introduced. They basically came about at the height of the IP issues after the chapter house fiasco and I think it was an attempt to create a distinct new property with possibly the term space marine becoming a thing of the past and them to be later accepted as Primaris as a faction instead. This wasn't a natural progression of the lore but more one directed by marketing.

 

I could be wrong personally believe this was an attempt to step away from the past of 40k with it's heavily influenced Dune, historical and 2000ad style roots to create something they could take full ownership of for potential licensing benefits and to protect their property. 

 

I'm fine with the basic MK X Tacticus Intercessor variant but never been keen on the Gravis, Proteus and other variants. My dream situation would have been to have Primaris scale armour marks that already existed such as the Mk IV. Speaking from experience of true scaling making the models bigger makes the flat open panels of the earlier marks appear more featureless which is why I think they added the panels to the thighs and took influence from the Mk IV, Mk VIII and Tartarus Terminator armours to break those areas up a bit.

 

From a lore perspective they fell back on the good old 40k trope of they were there all along which to be fair is nothing new for 40k but to me the way they were introduced felt like they are were trying to bring the Horus Heresy into modern 40k times and try to explain why the new production technique of sprues with 5 guys being replicated in what would be the new tactical squad replacement and how this mimicked the organisation of the Heresy and wasn't for ease of chucking five in a boxed set or patrol. 

 

The Mk X are ok as a basis for making truescale earlier mark marines as many, many people have done now. I would have preferred separate torso and legs but to be honest with the older marks being confined to HH2 there isn't really a need for this anymore. The beauty of the old system was that you could take a Mk IV torso and stick it on MK II legs or many other combinations rather than what I personally see as a wide spread misconception that this was more about removing the ability to reposition the torso. 

 

I can see where Jes Goodwin tried to keep aspects compatible with the firstborn such as shoulder pads and helmets as this does make sense from a practical upgrade sprue point of view but also in lore as to paraphrase the great man himself it meant that Astartes could still take their favourite helmet into battle. I also like that the armour is Mark X and not Mark ten as Jes explained himself in an early video, while that does put a dampener on a lost Mk 9 it does set them apart as being a break from conventional naming protocols and making them appear to be a creature of their own. 

 

I think as time goes on we'll see even more distance between First Born and Primaris where the best parts from the old designs make it across the Rubicon and the older are destined to become Legends models.

 

I am very glad that the likes of Land Raiders are now pretty safely established given they can transport Primaris but fear for the future of the the likes of the Rhino beyond 30k. I'm not a fan of their hover vehicles, the Repulsor and the Redemptor and the like but understand why they did this.

 

So to sum up, I'm ok with Primaris, I grew to be ok with the Intercessor armour, not keen on Phobos or Gravis and really don't like the hover tanks and I expect the faction to evolve even further from what I see an Astartes to truly be.